Obama

gugubica

Well-known member
Dec 8, 2006
641
0
Middle O' Missouri
apg, you do realize that Obama is not running against Bush...don't you?

Your responce to every point about Obama is, "yeah well, Bush sucks because..."

I admit to not being Bush's biggest fan, but I really don't give crap why you think he is so bad. Let's look to the future brother.
 

vray

Well-known member
Apr 5, 2005
1,431
0
WRV, Idaho
MarkP said:
A political cartoon depicting the KKK and the Democratic Party as continuations of the Confederacy

I know the history. But times have changed. Racists now support the repub party, and that is not saying all repubs are racists. But the repubs are sure aware of this support and actively pander to it.
 

Bannon88

Well-known member
Nov 3, 2004
1,967
0
50
Columbia, IL
vray said:
I know the history. But times have changed. Racists now support the repub party, and that is not saying all repubs are racists. But the repubs are sure aware of this support and actively pander to it.

Because we know the Dems don't pander and support and "black pride" sentiment.

Exhibit A and B.
 

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MarkP

Well-known member
Apr 23, 2004
6,672
0
Colorado
vray said:
I know the history. But times have changed. Racists now support the repub party, . . . . .

Now that is funny. With the Democrats it was always about identify politics, racism. Now one of the candidates is a racist.

The mentality hasn't changed.
 

apg

Well-known member
Dec 28, 2004
3,019
0
East Virginia
gugubica said:
apg, you do realize that Obama is not running against Bush...don't you?

Your responce to every point about Obama is, "yeah well, Bush sucks because..."

I admit to not being Bush's biggest fan, but I really don't give crap why you think he is so bad. Let's look to the future brother.

Indeed. I *am* looking to the future...and just hoping Bush & Co don't screw up this nation even more between now and January 20th. Unfortunately, they still have plenty of time.

The point I have been trying to make in this and other threads concerns the abject hypocrisy from the right. They'll jump up and down and get their knickers in a twist when Obama says "bitter". But they'll ignore egregious comments from Bush calling the Constitution a "god damned piece of paper." Same thing when Rev. Wright endorses Obama. Do we hear similar criticism when a whaccko-nutjob like Rev. Hagge endorses McCain? No. If you are critical of one, you've got to be critical of the other. You are a hypocrite if you don't.

To tell the truth, I don't think that Bush, per se, is the problem. Quite frankly, he doesn't have the chops.... He's not the sharpest pencil in the box, and he is out of his depth in virtually every subject except maybe baseball stats. (Then again, maybe even that is 'spin'.) But then Faux News and the right have attempted to compensate for his manifest shortcomings by denigrating his opponents and critics by calling them "elite". I don't know about you, but elite is a *good* term. I *want* my president to be elite. I want him to be able to solve quadratic equations in his head, be conversant in several languages - not just 'Spanglish' - to be able to recite the periodic table from memory - or at least be able to pronounce "nuclear" correctly after seven plus years of practice. I don't want to settle for the least common denominator. That's not who and what founded this great nation....
 

apg

Well-known member
Dec 28, 2004
3,019
0
East Virginia
Mike_Rupp said:
The same can be said of Bush. His tax policy was a success, but his spending is a failure. Do you agree?

Ummm...isn't that kind of like calling the Titanic's maiden voyage a "success" because 711 passengers and crew reached port safely? Let's not talk about the others....

Mike_Rupp said:
That is Bush's fatal flaw: he's a compassionate conservative. He has fundamentally sound tax policies, but he spends like a liberal.

"Compassionate conservative"....what an entirely laughable term. Another bumper sticker-length slogan aimed at those who can only grasp information in tiny bits. Please, tell us...what part of Bush's agenda was either compassionate OR conservative. Let's face it: the Bush presidency has made a shambles of real conservatism. Even those who do not call themselves conservatives must acknowledge the power and enduring value of core conservative beliefs: belief in the individual and personal responsibility, respect for American institutions and traditions, a commitment to freedom, and a willingness to take principled moral stands. Conservatism stands for caution in foreign ventures, fiscal sobriety and a respect for tradition. Arch-conservatives from the likes of the late-lamented William F. Buckley, to Jonah Goldberg to Fred Barnes have criticised Bush's so-called "conservatism."

http://www.salon.com/opinion/kamiya/2007/10/23/conservatism/

Bush and his policies have made it real difficult for any subsequent presidential candidate to call him (or her) self "conservative." Barry Goldwater was a conservative...so was Reagan - and Nixon. George Bush is not.
 

p m

Administrator
Staff member
Apr 19, 2004
15,651
869
58
La Jolla, CA
www.3rj.org
apg said:
Well, no.... Among the top 40 or so industrialized nations, the US rants 27th in infant mortality. Cuba is way ahead of us in this regards....
I hope you've collected statistics yourself, because suggesting that you believe Cuba's official numbers (quoted by Michael Moore) would be insulting your intelligence.
 

garrett

Well-known member
Jun 18, 2004
10,931
5
53
Middleburg, VA
www.blackdogmobility.com
So I should assume Sweden is lying about their 3 to 1000 dealths per birth rate?

The CDC has shown that our rate is actually climbing.

Who cares then where Cuba ranks. We're still around #30. Should we brag about that? The richest country in the world and we are #30? It's pathetic regardless if Cuba is #10 or #40.
 

MarkP

Well-known member
Apr 23, 2004
6,672
0
Colorado
apg said:
. . . . Bush and his policies have made it real difficult for any subsequent presidential candidate to call him (or her) self "conservative." Barry Goldwater was a conservative...so was Reagan - and Nixon. George Bush is not.

:applause:
 

ESnyder

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2005
197
0
"Same thing when Rev. Wright endorses Obama. Do we hear similar criticism when a whaccko-nutjob like Rev. Hagge endorses McCain?"




If you can't see the difference between an endorsement and being a member of a church for 20 years, keep drinking the Obama spiked Kool-aid with the rest of your doe-eyed friends.
 

jim-00-4.6

Well-known member
Sep 30, 2005
2,037
6
61
Genesee, CO USA
apg said:
"Compassionate conservative"....what an entirely laughable term. Another bumper sticker-length slogan aimed at those who can only grasp information in tiny bits.
"Compassionate Conservative" is a pretty big bumper sticker, that sure seems like a BIG bit of information to me; that's like 8 syllables or something.

Oh, I know!
Here's a much more easily digestable bit...
"Change"
Plus, that smaller sticker will fit more easily on the bumper of my Prius.
 

MarkP

Well-known member
Apr 23, 2004
6,672
0
Colorado
I wonder if the LSM will print this?

Yes, Barack Obama, We Are Bitter
Townhall.com ^ | 4-20-08 | Mary Grabar

We know who you’re talking about, Barack Obama, when you talk about Pennsylvania and the Midwest, about small towns where the jobs have left. We know who you’re talking about when you talk about those who “get bitter” and “cling to guns or religion.”

You’re talking about “those people.”

You’re talking about white people who have neither the family connections nor the racial credentials to gain entrance to the world that you inhabit. Many of the people you’re talking about are those whose parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents were immigrants from Central and Eastern Europe who came to these places to work in steel mills, coal mines, and factories. We know the code words.

You’re talking about people whose culture is little known. We have been pretty quiet. We never tried to impose our culture on everyone. We never insisted on putting pictures of ourselves in our native dress into schoolbooks or mandating that our stories and songs be part of the curriculums.

We tried to maintain our culture without government aid, by forming our own churches and groups, and building Polish, Ukrainian, and Slovenian halls.

We never wore buttons declaring “Slav Power” or grouped together for purposes of intimidation or violence.

The power we asked for was the power of the paycheck which we earned in factories, steel mills, coal mines, or by cleaning houses. Yet, we were taken aside and told that because of affirmative action it was no use trying to advance off the assembly line; we were told in “diversity workshops” that people of color had to be promoted over more qualified white people. I know this, Barack, because I have family members and friends who worked in factories.

We used to trudge in to work and change into work clothes, like my father did. He began by knowing only one word of English, “Okay,” which he found to be the most useful one in the language. When the boss man handed him a broom or pointed to a piece to be welded, he fairly leapt to the task. My uncles were injured in construction and mining accidents, and went back to work.

But what did we get for that, Barack? We paid cash for our houses and kept impeccable yards, yet saw the value of our homes plummet after marauding hoodlums came into our neighborhoods in riots that were celebrated by the intelligentsia in Manhattan penthouses, who saw such violence as justified expressions of outrage over past discrimination.

We went to public schools in those same neighborhoods only to be accosted for our skin color and the presumed “privilege” that teachers said we had. Rather than teach us what was good and beautiful about Western Civilization and the country to which our parents had fled, teachers gave us Marxist nonsense, if they bothered to teach at all. Our schoolmates saw the evening news, mimicked their elders by wearing “Black Power” buttons and felt justified in roughing the white kid who didn’t seem tough. Because we were “privileged”—despite washing our fathers’ sooty work clothes while our mothers went off to clean offices and houses in the suburbs—we were not eligible for scholarships, not even to the Catholic schools. Teachers never cut us any slack. Guidance counselors told us to be secretaries or work in the factory, despite our volunteering and demonstration of academic abilities. Our brothers, cousins, and uncles went off to fight in Vietnam, while those from your class took up arms against their campus administrators.

True, we had our problems, as all people do, with such things as alcoholism and family violence, but we handled those ourselves, and never blamed “society” or a history of oppression. Still, many of us did carry legacies from the old country, of hunger and persecution, of watching family members and villagers murdered by atheistic regimes. So we were grateful for the opportunity to work and buy our own little patches of the American Dream.

We were happy to use a welding torch, shovel, or broom to get them. We didn’t insist that we should all get college degrees. We didn’t have our documents translated for us or get bilingual instruction. If we didn’t know English we made sure our children did and we relied on them.

Your white friends in San Francisco, Barack, probably had cleaning women like my mother (and me when I accompanied her and then had my own cleaning jobs from age 12). As white people from a certain class and with certain connections, your donors knew that their futures would be secure because of their inheritances and the connections they could make in the media, politics, and business. In fact, it would benefit them in the world of “radical chic” to hang around those like you and support your policies. (Great opportunity to be photographed next to a black person!)

Your black friends there, like your wife, see no end to the amount that this country owes them because of what happened to their ancestors. It makes no difference that many of the whites in previous generations also had experienced persecution and hunger and worked in dangerous, dirty, and degrading jobs. Or that blacks and Native Americans were among the slave owners.

In fact, you and those wealthy donors sneer at white people who have had to do manual labor and who have paid for tuition at community colleges with the money earned that way, while our classmates received special scholarships and government grants—from our taxes.

You sneer at those like us who put our faith in God and not in those like you who would presume to know what’s good for us and tell us what to do with our money and our children, and leave us with no ability to defend ourselves.

Well, Barack, coming from your Ivy League world, you would not know much about us. You would not have learned that because we come from people who, rather than letting their communist benefactors redistribute the food, burned the crops in their little fields before they were forcibly “collectivized.” In Slovenia, they fought Tito’s Partisans from the woods and held mass at night when the Communists banned church services. They remember what it’s like to be hungry, ill, and living in little more than huts, while Marshall Tito and his communist cronies lived in villas. Now you live in a Chicago mansion and sneer at those like us who simply want to keep and defend our little three-bedroom ranches. You don’t know what it’s like to have family members die for the right to attend mass.

I know your liberal cronies, Barack; they make me check off my skin color on job applications and ask me during job interviews of how I teach multiculturalism, yet don’t know where Slovenia is on the world map. They couldn’t care less about my culture, nor about Polish, Ukrainian, Russian, or Lithuanian culture. Your supporters often feel free to mock my Slovenian heritage in letters and comments on the Internet when they disagree with me. I guess it’s like being called a “dumb Polack”—something that has never gained quite the opprobrium of other ethnic epithets.

See, Barack, we know the system: Some are more “equal” than others.

And we know how you really feel about the “proletariat.” We know this from our experience either directly or as an inheritance from our parents and grandparents. And that is why we came to America.

Addendum: Many of my non-European correspondents, like those who came from Cuba, agree—as their letters to me indicate.​
 

vray

Well-known member
Apr 5, 2005
1,431
0
WRV, Idaho
MarkP said:
I wonder if the LSM will print this?

Yes, Barack Obama, We Are Bitter
Townhall.com ^ | 4-20-08 | Mary Grabar

We know who you?re talking about, Barack Obama, when you talk about Pennsylvania and the Midwest, about small towns where the jobs have left. We know who you?re talking about when you talk about those who ?get bitter? and ?cling to guns or religion.?

You?re talking about ?those people.?

You?re talking about white people who have neither the family connections nor the racial credentials to gain entrance to the world that you inhabit. Many of the people you?re talking about are those whose parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents were immigrants from Central and Eastern Europe who came to these places to work in steel mills, coal mines, and factories. We know the code words.

You?re talking about people whose culture is little known. We have been pretty quiet. We never tried to impose our culture on everyone. We never insisted on putting pictures of ourselves in our native dress into schoolbooks or mandating that our stories and songs be part of the curriculums.

We tried to maintain our culture without government aid, by forming our own churches and groups, and building Polish, Ukrainian, and Slovenian halls.

We never wore buttons declaring ?Slav Power? or grouped together for purposes of intimidation or violence.

The power we asked for was the power of the paycheck which we earned in factories, steel mills, coal mines, or by cleaning houses. Yet, we were taken aside and told that because of affirmative action it was no use trying to advance off the assembly line; we were told in ?diversity workshops? that people of color had to be promoted over more qualified white people. I know this, Barack, because I have family members and friends who worked in factories.

We used to trudge in to work and change into work clothes, like my father did. He began by knowing only one word of English, ?Okay,? which he found to be the most useful one in the language. When the boss man handed him a broom or pointed to a piece to be welded, he fairly leapt to the task. My uncles were injured in construction and mining accidents, and went back to work.

But what did we get for that, Barack? We paid cash for our houses and kept impeccable yards, yet saw the value of our homes plummet after marauding hoodlums came into our neighborhoods in riots that were celebrated by the intelligentsia in Manhattan penthouses, who saw such violence as justified expressions of outrage over past discrimination.

We went to public schools in those same neighborhoods only to be accosted for our skin color and the presumed ?privilege? that teachers said we had. Rather than teach us what was good and beautiful about Western Civilization and the country to which our parents had fled, teachers gave us Marxist nonsense, if they bothered to teach at all. Our schoolmates saw the evening news, mimicked their elders by wearing ?Black Power? buttons and felt justified in roughing the white kid who didn?t seem tough. Because we were ?privileged??despite washing our fathers? sooty work clothes while our mothers went off to clean offices and houses in the suburbs?we were not eligible for scholarships, not even to the Catholic schools. Teachers never cut us any slack. Guidance counselors told us to be secretaries or work in the factory, despite our volunteering and demonstration of academic abilities. Our brothers, cousins, and uncles went off to fight in Vietnam, while those from your class took up arms against their campus administrators.

True, we had our problems, as all people do, with such things as alcoholism and family violence, but we handled those ourselves, and never blamed ?society? or a history of oppression. Still, many of us did carry legacies from the old country, of hunger and persecution, of watching family members and villagers murdered by atheistic regimes. So we were grateful for the opportunity to work and buy our own little patches of the American Dream.

We were happy to use a welding torch, shovel, or broom to get them. We didn?t insist that we should all get college degrees. We didn?t have our documents translated for us or get bilingual instruction. If we didn?t know English we made sure our children did and we relied on them.

Your white friends in San Francisco, Barack, probably had cleaning women like my mother (and me when I accompanied her and then had my own cleaning jobs from age 12). As white people from a certain class and with certain connections, your donors knew that their futures would be secure because of their inheritances and the connections they could make in the media, politics, and business. In fact, it would benefit them in the world of ?radical chic? to hang around those like you and support your policies. (Great opportunity to be photographed next to a black person!)

Your black friends there, like your wife, see no end to the amount that this country owes them because of what happened to their ancestors. It makes no difference that many of the whites in previous generations also had experienced persecution and hunger and worked in dangerous, dirty, and degrading jobs. Or that blacks and Native Americans were among the slave owners.

In fact, you and those wealthy donors sneer at white people who have had to do manual labor and who have paid for tuition at community colleges with the money earned that way, while our classmates received special scholarships and government grants?from our taxes.

You sneer at those like us who put our faith in God and not in those like you who would presume to know what?s good for us and tell us what to do with our money and our children, and leave us with no ability to defend ourselves.

Well, Barack, coming from your Ivy League world, you would not know much about us. You would not have learned that because we come from people who, rather than letting their communist benefactors redistribute the food, burned the crops in their little fields before they were forcibly ?collectivized.? In Slovenia, they fought Tito?s Partisans from the woods and held mass at night when the Communists banned church services. They remember what it?s like to be hungry, ill, and living in little more than huts, while Marshall Tito and his communist cronies lived in villas. Now you live in a Chicago mansion and sneer at those like us who simply want to keep and defend our little three-bedroom ranches. You don?t know what it?s like to have family members die for the right to attend mass.

I know your liberal cronies, Barack; they make me check off my skin color on job applications and ask me during job interviews of how I teach multiculturalism, yet don?t know where Slovenia is on the world map. They couldn?t care less about my culture, nor about Polish, Ukrainian, Russian, or Lithuanian culture. Your supporters often feel free to mock my Slovenian heritage in letters and comments on the Internet when they disagree with me. I guess it?s like being called a ?dumb Polack??something that has never gained quite the opprobrium of other ethnic epithets.

See, Barack, we know the system: Some are more ?equal? than others.

And we know how you really feel about the ?proletariat.? We know this from our experience either directly or as an inheritance from our parents and grandparents. And that is why we came to America.

Addendum: Many of my non-European correspondents, like those who came from Cuba, agree?as their letters to me indicate.​


:rofl: The poor downtrodden white race. I'll bet this idiot would not trade skin colors for anything. And I won't even go into the faulty facts cited, because being fact free is part of a decent smear job.
 

jim-00-4.6

Well-known member
Sep 30, 2005
2,037
6
61
Genesee, CO USA
Vray, i get that you hate bush & all things republican.
In fact, it would be very difficult NOT to get that.
vray said:
:rofl: The poor downtrodden white race.
That wasn't the vibe I got from that.
For one thing, this isn't the kind of thing you hear every day, about how "they" have been fucked over, and how someone else OWES them something.

Your blind allegience to Obama is at least as bad as your allegations that MarkP does nothing but cut 'n paste from freepers.

And I won't even go into the faulty facts cited, because being fact free is part of a decent smear job.

Since I am apparently one of those people, please cite the faulty facts.
I'm not interested in your partisan bullshit, or Mark's.

I am interested in FACTS, something you allude to, but have yet to provide.
 

MarkP

Well-known member
Apr 23, 2004
6,672
0
Colorado
vray said:
I know the history. But times have changed. . . .

The last couple of days of the Democrat race have been interesting. It culminated in Wright's appearance at the National Press Club. Wright is the far Left, anti-America Left, a Marxist and mentor of the currently leading Democrat candidate Obama. Obama's attempts to distance himself have been weak because for 17+ years he supported him either through passive attendance or active support.

Wright is the face of the racist far Left. Where have we seen this before with the Democrat Party? The KKK. The only thing that has changed is the color of the skin. Wright's Black Liberation Theology is the KKK reborn. Obama is the candidate of the black KKK. The far Left has given birth to a new incarnation of hate.

The Moment of Truth for the Left has Arrived
American Thinker
April 28, 2008

By James Lewis

If you haven't listened to Jeremiah Wright's hate sermons at Hugh Hewitt's website, you must do so. Every American with open eyes and ears has to listen to the voice of racial hatred, coming not from the Klan but from a clergyman of the Christian Left. Reading his words isn't enough, because you won't hear the unmistakable meaning of his vocal intonations. If you are a person of good will you will feel upset. But it's of the utmost importance to understand this moment of truth.

Because Jeremiah Wright -- the respectful word "Reverend" seems grotesquely out of place now -- is shouting out the slander catechism of the Left. His sermons say exactly what other Leftists say in calm voices, over and over again. Mr. Wright just does it with real, raw hatred, and every new slam is cheered on by his jubilant congregation. His is not a lone voice. He just sings the music to fit the words.

We have been nursing a viper in our national bosom. Seven years after September 11, 2001, this is the moment of truth, when the Left must finally decide what side it's on. Wright's sermons may signal the end of the Obama campaign, and they may mean the breakup of the Democratic Party as we know it. I don't see how any centrist Democrat can still belong to this party if Obama is its nominee. Jeremiah Wright may mean the historical end of the Civil Rights Era, because fifty years after Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., the Left's presumption of Victimhood and innocence is now gone.

The Rev is only the visible bulge of this lethal political tumor. This is Saul Alinsky's sociopathic teachings on display, and this is what Hillary Clinton learned back at Wellesley College. It is the voice of feminists who hate all men, and of radicalized blacks who hate all whites. . . . .

. . . . .


So it's not just Senator Obama who is stuck with Mr. Wright today. We are all stuck with a rageful Left, which really wants to destroy rather than to build. They mentally rehearse perceived injustices over and over again, and they blame this country for all the evil in the world, including AIDS in the black community. They never look at another side. Many have no honest conception of other countries, other cultures, or other points of view. They are not balanced people.

So the entire American body politic has a festering sore on its hands. This will not go away by itself. It will not be bought off by more money. It must be repudiated by the sensible Left, if it is still there. Just as William F. Buckley denounced the anti-Semites on the right, and sensible Americans rejected segregation and the Klan, just as American unions expelled Stalinist unions from the AFL-CIO, the time has come for the decent Left to draw a bright line in the sand, and keep the hate mongers out.​
 

noee

Well-known member
Apr 20, 2004
1,887
0
Free Union, VA
There is no question that Wright is a racist. He even admits it. And yes, he was Obama's pastor for years. And yes, he sat on Obama's "spiritual advisement" committee until recently.

But, he is not running for POTUS. Obama is running for POTUS.

So, if Obama would come out and explicitly denounce the racist Wright and distance himself from his racist views, I would be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Obama, at least, deserves that opportunity, does he not?