Oil Pressure Help Needed.

LRDONE

Well-known member
Dec 3, 2020
340
119
Michigan
The time to light out does not change based on temperature but more so how long it has been sitting. It was absolutely perfect until I first removed the timing cover. The cover has been off four times since trying to figure it out. Base on this being a timely problem vs temperature problem, my thought is the same, there's something allowing it to leak down but what could it be?

- Oil pump - Brand new
- Timing cover gasket - Brand new
- Oil pick up tube gasket - Brand new
- Oil Filter - Brand new
- Oil pressure sensor - Works
- Oil - Brand new 10w-30
 

Greg_M

Well-known member
Dec 27, 2021
243
111
Vancouver Island
Does your time to light out vary noticeably with ambient temp? Most report that it does. Mine is close to normal at summer temps (3-5 secs cold start) but increases to 10-20 secs in the 30s-40s, about as cold as it gets here.
For comparison. 34 degrees this morning, truck sat overnight, oil light out in about 2 seconds from first turning the key. 178,000 miles on the engine, 15W40 oil.
 
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LRDONE

Well-known member
Dec 3, 2020
340
119
Michigan
For comparison. 34 degrees this morning, truck sat overnight, oil light out in about 2 seconds from first turning the key. 178,000 miles on the engine, 15W40 oil.
That's what mine used to do. And that would it should do.
 

LRDONE

Well-known member
Dec 3, 2020
340
119
Michigan
Seems like bypassing the oil cooler would be an interesting experiment. Could a leaky o-ring fitting there cause the pump to lose prime I wonder?

Cheers,
joe b in pdx
I bought plugs today to do this. Just so I can rule out a restriction.
 

boxster

Well-known member
Jun 1, 2009
479
96
Fallbrook Ca.
I just hooked up a mechanical gauge and read 0-psi. Engine actually sounded okay. I’m going to remove the oil filter and check the cooler for restriction
Maybe restriction in the port going to the oil switch, remove the fuel pump relay and oil switch then turn it over and see what happens?
 

Disco95

Well-known member
Mar 20, 2020
51
21
Portland, OR
If you search a little here you’ll find several of us have D1’s that exhibit the same behavior. Your case is intriguing because you seem to have caught the issue when it started, so at least the potential causes are narrowed down a bit. The bad news is no one seems to be able to pin it down. The good news is it doesn’t seem to result in engine damage in the short to medium term (knock wood).

Does your time to light out vary noticeably with ambient temp? Most report that it does. Mine is close to normal at summer temps (3-5 secs cold start) but increases to 10-20 secs in the 30s-40s, about as cold as it gets here. It was even worse before a reseal. Like you, I didn’t find any “smoking guns” in the oil path. I agree with your hunch that something in the oil pump path must get disrupted and mess up the prime. I just can’t figure out what.

Cheers,
joe b
pdx or
95 D1 v8 5sp
A long thread from an RRC owner who finally solved a similar issue with a new front cover:


Probably the most obvious culprit honestly. I could see some very faint scoring on mine when it was apart. Maybe enough to mess up the prime.

Cheers,
joe b in pdx or
 
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boxster

Well-known member
Jun 1, 2009
479
96
Fallbrook Ca.
I just hooked up a mechanical gauge and read 0-psi. Engine actually sounded okay. I’m going to remove the oil filter and check the cooler for restriction
Read that lengthy post about the 4.6 in RRC, the guy finally resolved the oil light issue with good used front cover and new oil gears. No more oil light!
 

discostew

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2010
7,733
1,024
Northern Illinois
When you first got this truck did you notice if any prev. Guy might have gone a little heavy with the RTV sealant? I’ve seen that cause some problems. I’m sure you looked at the ring gear in the oil pump. And then I’ve got to ask how we know our bearing clearance is good at the crank? I don’t remember seeing how fresh all that was. Then you have the potential cam bearing walking like we’ve talked about previously. You can usually see some sign of them not being where they’re supposed to be by removing the intake.
I have an engine for just such a problem. Not saying I would stop looking at the why and the how. But I would be slamming by backup engine now and poking at this thing when I had time.
 
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LRDONE

Well-known member
Dec 3, 2020
340
119
Michigan
When you first got this truck did you notice if any prev. Guy might have gone a little heavy with the RTV sealant? I’ve seen that cause some problems. I’m sure you looked at the ring gear in the oil pump. And then I’ve got to ask how we know our bearing clearance is good at the crank? I don’t remember seeing how fresh all that was. Then you have the potential cam bearing walking like we’ve talked about previously. You can usually see some sign of them not being where they’re supposed to be by removing the intake.
I have an engine for just such a problem. Not saying I would stop looking at the why and the how. But I would be slamming by backup engine now and poking at this thing when I had time.
Honestly it's always seemed to be fairly clean any time I had the pan off. As far as bearing clearance, I think it's fine, it ran great initially with no noises. I think tolerance issue you would yield low oil pressure not zero unless it was knocking really bad. I never looked at the cam bearings for walking. I hear you on the back up engine as I've thought about it 5 times in the last hour about just getting another motor. But the fact that it ran perfect initially and the oil light went out like normal after the last time putting it together. I let it sit one night and goes to zero psi. It has to be a priming issue. I'm going to rip it all back a part again and start fresh. It sure would be nice to put this cover on the machining center and machine the oil ports to be o-ringed and eliminate the gasket guess.
 

LRDONE

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Dec 3, 2020
340
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Michigan

special ed

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Apr 11, 2012
188
116
Elsinore
Ok i will pipe in. These are all just ideas and information. Did you remove the pressure relief at any time when working on the cover? Remove the oil pressure sensor and crank it over to see if you have flow. Yes your going to make a mess so be prepaured if you have flow. if there is flow you have a bleed upstream in the block somewhere. No oil pressure is a loss of prime (no flow) or loss of restriction (flow but no resistance). the oil flow is one thing, pump moving fluid. Oil pressure is secondary and pressure is created by tollerance of bearings and the restriction they create. imagine turning on a hose and water flowing, then putting your thumb on the end to create actual pressure. You can (and i have) stick the pickup in a bucket of oil and start the engine with the pan off. (be prepared for the biggest mess ever.) You can then see if there is a bleed but make sure you have flow first. Make sure you have the correct gasket for the timing cover, there are a few different ones. They seal great when done properly. Dont use a lot of silicone just a super lite smear to hold the gasket in place.
 
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LRDONE

Well-known member
Dec 3, 2020
340
119
Michigan
Ok i will pipe in. These are all just ideas and information. Did you remove the pressure relief at any time when working on the cover? Remove the oil pressure sensor and crank it over to see if you have flow. Yes your going to make a mess so be prepaured if you have flow. if there is flow you have a bleed upstream in the block somewhere. No oil pressure is a loss of prime (no flow) or loss of restriction (flow but no resistance). the oil flow is one thing, pump moving fluid. Oil pressure is secondary and pressure is created by tollerance of bearings and the restriction they create. imagine turning on a hose and water flowing, then putting your thumb on the end to create actual pressure. You can (and i have) stick the pickup in a bucket of oil and start the engine with the pan off. (be prepared for the biggest mess ever.) You can then see if there is a bleed but make sure you have flow first. Make sure you have the correct gasket for the timing cover, there are a few different ones. They seal great when done properly. Dont use a lot of silicone just a super lite smear to hold the gasket in place.
Pressure relief was not removed however the whole cover was put in an ultrasonic cleaner. After removal I physically pushed the relief back and forth and could feel it landing on the stop.

Oil pressure sensor removal, this is where I have my gauge hooked up. In the process of trying two different sensors there was no oil leaking out of the whole after a start up. I do have oil in the oil filter when I removed it and remember, the first start up right after the repair it primed perfectly and I had oil pressure. Drove it around, shut it off, started it back up with the light going out as it should, wayyyyyy batter than with the previous oil pump. It was the morning after I started it to confirm the repair and that's when the zero oil pressure started. The gasket I used for the timing cover was ERR7280. I also removed the oil pick up tube, ran that through the ultrasonic cleaner as well, I even sanded the flange to make sure it was flat, I also used a brand new gasket on that as well.

I bought a new used cover from Will just now. I'm going to tear mine back apart and start measuring tolerances and look for scoring that could be an issue with the pump priming. I also bought block off plugs to eliminate the oil cooler just while I sort everything out.

I really appreciate the input from everyone. This is probably one of the more tough diagnostics I've ever done because of the four sets of gaskets I've bought and the lengthy tear down process to just to try something different lol. I will have it fixed and I will post on here what the issue ended up being. I needed to take a step back and post on here. It's nice to have a place where like minded people can provide input. lol
 
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