Outerwear

knewsom

Well-known member
Jul 10, 2008
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La Mancha, CA
Mike_Rupp said:
It depends on the climate. Cotton sucks ass in damp climates like the PNW. Ever wonder why companies like Patagonia and Arc'teryx are based in the NW? Traditional materials don't cut it here and new materials needed to be used to work in this climate. We don't have the coldest climate, but for God's sake it is wet. Traditional materials like cotton will fuck you up here.

There are a few old school materials that continue to be used in outdoor gear like wool and down, but frankly the synthetics are much better than most traditional materials.

The reason that nylon can stink is that it is slightly hygroscopic; it absorbs water. That smell is probably just sweat.

What about oilskin? Like I said man, I was outside, in the rain, on the ground, and unconscious for 5 hours in the PNW, and wasn't remotely hypothermic. I just don't see a gore-tex coat cutting it in that situation, but again, I could be wrong - $50 isn't too big a gamble on a coat, so I'll try this one. The only downside to oilskin that I've found is that it'll get moldy if it stays wet too long. Sure, it'll soak in a LITTLE water, but it'll still keep you dry, and if you're wearing silk and wool underneath, you won't get clammy.

As for what I've owned, beyond this overrated 5.11 piece of crap, I've had a NF gore-tex coat, an REI rain shell, and a very nice Nike ACG snowboarding jacket with Gore-Tex as well. ALL soaked up in the rain, and leaked. Furthermore, they all stopped being breathable in anything other than ideal weather, and weren't particularly warm in the cold.
 

R_Lefebvre

Well-known member
Dec 10, 2007
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I haven't evolved much. I wear leather jackets. If I don't want to wear a leather jacket, I wear that cotton jacket. If it's just too damn cold and windy outside, I'll layer up a bit.

I have a jacket just like that one. It's fine for getting between the house and the car, and the car and the office. It's a great fall jacket though, and I use it in situations I wouldn't wear my good jackets. Cutting wood, carrying wood, burning wood....

If it's just too damn cold and windy outside, I'll layer up a bit.

What exactly is "too damn cold", in North Carolina?

I'm not going to go pay 180 bucks for plastic wool and Seran Wrap when I have to buy 20 other over-priced Chinese bits and pieces to make it work properly. Fuck that. All that stuff is made by 5 year olds.

What other 20 bits and pieces? You talking about fleece, and microfiber long underwear? How is it different than wearing cotton long underwear, a wool sweater, and a canvas jacket?

By the time I got all that shit, it would end up being more expensive than it was for me to have two leather jackets custom-designed and precisely tailored in England. If you aren't into leather, call up a real outdoor clothier.

Maybe. But you still can't DO anything outdoors for any length of time in leather.

The world wasn't mapped in a plastic romper suit. All the hard work was done by men in cotton, wool, fur and leather.

Yes, and a great many of them died. You only read about the ones who lived. Back then, nobody went outside in bad weather just for fun. They went out because they HAD to. Modern performance materials allow us the luxury of actually going outside just for fun.
 

R_Lefebvre

Well-known member
Dec 10, 2007
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As for what I've owned, beyond this overrated 5.11 piece of crap, I've had a NF gore-tex coat, an REI rain shell, and a very nice Nike ACG snowboarding jacket with Gore-Tex as well. ALL soaked up in the rain, and leaked. Furthermore, they all stopped being breathable in anything other than ideal weather, and weren't particularly warm in the cold.

So you're going to buy a USED piece of clothing, and then be surprised if it doesn't work?

I really can't explain why your other GoreTex didn't work, as it does for so many other people.
 

knewsom

Well-known member
Jul 10, 2008
5,262
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La Mancha, CA
R_Lefebvre said:
So you're going to buy a USED piece of clothing, and then be surprised if it doesn't work?

I really can't explain why your other GoreTex didn't work, as it does for so many other people.

Maybe it's because none of you have worn oilskin.
 

dcarr1971

Well-known member
Jun 16, 2010
610
0
Pittsburgh, PA USA
R_Lefebvre said:
So you're going to buy a USED piece of clothing, and then be surprised if it doesn't work?

I really can't explain why your other GoreTex didn't work, as it does for so many other people.

I know that GoreTex does require some maintenance under certain circumstances. The fibers can get clogged up and it will stop allowing the moisture to pass out of the garment. Some friends who are hard core backpackers tell me that boots with GoreTex are no good. (They stick with baked in bee's wax on boots.)

I've got a GoreTex shell from LL Bean that has seen me through some pretty extreme weather and never leaked at all in the past 9 years. I've tried the knock off's, they all suck...stick with the original or go the oil skin route.
 

R_Lefebvre

Well-known member
Dec 10, 2007
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knewsom said:
Maybe it's because none of you have worn oilskin.

I have an oilskin hat. It works great.

But I wouldn't wear it as a coat. Maybe for standing around it would work. But it's far too heavy and stiff for activity.
 

flyfisher11

Well-known member
May 25, 2005
8,676
2
61
Wolf Laurel NC
seventyfive said:
...being a veteran, i have never understood civilians fascination with military style tactical gear. if some of you guys knew what real operators opt for when it comes to gear. and NO, swat cops are not operators.....they are cops.
...

Exactly why I used to buy my own pro-gear when I was still in. Although I will say those first gen Gortex parkas are damn near bomb proof. I keep them in both my Rovers. Hell I use it to lay on when working under the truck, I loan it when some dummy forgets their coat, you get the picture. But I don't wear it around town to impress someone. It gets used for its intended use only. Hell I've got a closet full of flight gear jackets etc. That is where they'll stay although I have passed on to my daughter and teenage nephew a couple of my old A2 leather jackets. They get a kick out of it especially with a blood chit stitched on the inside.
 
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knewsom

Well-known member
Jul 10, 2008
5,262
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La Mancha, CA
R_Lefebvre said:
I have an oilskin hat. It works great.

But I wouldn't wear it as a coat. Maybe for standing around it would work. But it's far too heavy and stiff for activity.

The stiffness depends on the manufacturer of the coat, and on whether it's been broken in or not. I wouldn't ski in oilskin, but I'd hike, work, or dogsled, all of which I've done in oilskin.

As for weight... I never though my coat was all that heavy. ...certainly no more so than rain-soaked gore-tex and fleece.

...and I hope nobody on here actually wears cotton long underwear, except maybe in bed at night. Silk is the way to go. Silk, wool, and oilskin, that's how I enjoyed my stay in Jukkasj?rvi, near Kiruna Sweden, in the middle of winter. On that same trip we also spent a week in the Scotland. Plenty of hiking in the rain, snow, etc. Warm and dry.
 

akronk1

Well-known member
Apr 20, 2004
557
0
Danbury CT
I own a 511 ball cap, which I got this year at a fire show. The vendor was giving them out FREE (they were labeled 2009). Its not a bad cap, but would rather it didn't have 511 stiched on it
 

R_Lefebvre

Well-known member
Dec 10, 2007
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On your trips to Sweden and Scotland, where did you sleep every night?

As for weight... I never though my coat was all that heavy. ...certainly no more so than rain-soaked gore-tex and fleece.

I wouldn't know. It has never gotten it wet.
 

knewsom

Well-known member
Jul 10, 2008
5,262
0
La Mancha, CA
R_Lefebvre said:
On your trips to Sweden and Scotland, where did you sleep every night?



I wouldn't know. It has never gotten it wet.

Indoors - this was my honeymoon, after all. I had to make SOME concessions. :D However, in the North of Sweden, we did stay in the Ice Hotel, where it never got above -1C in our room...
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
What exactly is "too damn cold", in North Carolina?

I do travel quite a bit, you know.

What other 20 bits and pieces? You talking about fleece, and microfiber long underwear? How is it different than wearing cotton long underwear, a wool sweater, and a canvas jacket?

I mentioned that I'm not above using a synthetic base layer. I'm talking about these clothing systems. They cost an absolute fortune, and they don't last like the old stuff when pushed to high limits.

I do have quite a bit of this stuff, I just don't use it. I understand the purpose, but while I do layer, I don't require all of that. I will, in extreme cold environments, use the amount of layers you mentioned, but I almost never bother with the technical stuff.

Maybe. But you still can't DO anything outdoors for any length of time in leather.

I can. I've got two leather jackets. They were made for me by the same fellow that made the original Indiana Jones jackets. They largely follow the same pattern, but I asked for certain modifications when I was there. One is cow hide. It features a satin liner. That's what it is. Leather and Satin.

I've used that jacket in most of my travels. When it's hot, but I need a bit of extra protection, it's perfect when left unzipped. I always wear sevaral things. I wear a T-shirt, and on top of that I wear an overshirt, generally only buttoned halfway, with the sleeves rolled to just below my elbows. In more annoying environments, I tuck it in.

When my jacket is worn over those things, zipped with the storm flap closed and the collar raised, I am perfectly comfortable down to thirty degrees performing any task, no matter how strenuous it may be.

When the weather dips below thirty degrees, I will indeed wear single layer MSR rain jacket, the kind that ball up and stuff in a sack, as a windbreaker. If it hits twenty outside, or if the wind is just too much, I'll wear a base layer, cotton or polymer. I don't wear a sweater unless I want added protection.

When the weather rises above ninety degrees, I will remove the jacket if I have been using it, as any activity performed above that temperature with solar loading can cause you to constantly overheat. When it hits one hundred, I'll ditch the over-shirt unless the solar loading is extreme.

Leather has served me very well. My other jacket is dark lambskin, and silk-lined. That's my dress jacket for around town. It's collar is smaller, and it is shorter. The bellows at the sides are more shallow as well, as I don't need as much agility.

Yes, and a great many of them died. You only read about the ones who lived. Back then, nobody went outside in bad weather just for fun. They went out because they HAD to. Modern performance materials allow us the luxury of actually going outside just for fun.

I do those things as a combination of necessity and addiction to risk. Old materials have served me well. People die in those situations. Shit happens. If it's not risky it's not adventure, it's simply a fun trip. I will suffer equal risks wearing either form of clothing. Plastic isn't going to save my life. I've dealt with weather extremes below -60 and above 120 at long length with no shelter during shifts.

I'm not dead yet. I've got a lot of health problems now, but I'm not fucking dead. Now, I've come very close, but only a few of those times was that related at all to weather. I don't let this planet dictate the century in which clothing was designed. I've got the new stuff, and it's great for tight packing. Beyond that, it's just another option.

More power to you if you like them, though. I think they are overpriced and made in China.

Cheers,

Kennith
 

jhmover

Well-known member
Apr 23, 2004
5,571
3
California
I have the same gore-tex jacket and pants I bought about 20 years ago. I've never been wet. Used for skiing, hunting, fishing, even been on horseback in the Rockies and the Ruby Mountains (NV) in some screwed up weather when hunting and never wet.

If you want oilskin, not cheap, but I think this is the shit myself. I have one of their hunting jackets I've had about 15 years, too.

http://www.filson.com/
 

Two Cold Soakers

Well-known member
Apr 24, 2007
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At your mom's
I've got a Barbour Northumbria that has served quite well walking across Iowa cornfields at 32 degrees - unzipped with a polypro shirt; and equally well zipped up tight with a expeditionweight turtleneck, a military wool shirt and a mad bomber hat walking 10 degree grouse woods through 2 feet of snow.

It's also kept me dry while motoring off Munuscong Bay in the dark with my dog during a rainstorm.

While it's getting a little frayed around the cuffs, and the zipper is pulling away at the waist, it still sheds water and keeps me toasty warm.
AND IT BREATHES!!!

It's now used as a field coat when pulling well samples or doing site walkovers in the winter. The pockets are huge - holding sample bottles; flagging tape; a Browning High Power; a small thermos; two wild pheasant, two mallards or five grouse; gloves; spare socks; phone/wallet; a couple 110 connibears, I can fit ten pounds of shit in it, easy.

That's what I like for outerwear.
 
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jhmover

Well-known member
Apr 23, 2004
5,571
3
California
Man I totally forgot about Barbour, that's good stuff too. I used to race moto-x and enduros when I was a kid. I had leather pants and a Barbour jacket. In the late 60's and early 70's it was the shit. I even wore the leather pants and the jacket when hunting. My cousin had a WW2 Ford Jeep with no top and I was the only one who was warm riding around the Sierras in the rain and snow. Man the stuff you forget about until someone brings up something that jogs your memory.
 

p m

Administrator
Staff member
Apr 19, 2004
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La Jolla, CA
www.3rj.org
R_Lefebvre said:
I have an oilskin hat. It works great.

But I wouldn't wear it as a coat. Maybe for standing around it would work. But it's far too heavy and stiff for activity.
Thank you. I was waiting for anyone to respond to Kris' plea for oilskins. Oilskins suck at just about anything but standing on an unprotected bridge of a shooner in a squall.
FWIW, -20C ain't that cold.
 

Bender

Well-known member
Jun 8, 2004
159
0
Virginia
I am surprised that it's taken 4 pages to finally get to Barbour. Love my Bedale jacket. No problems getting wet unless I raise my arms up. Paired with decent gloves, scarf, and hat it's the shit. The zip in liners are nice, too. Filson is probably similar.

Though I will say that a few months ago I spent five or six hours standing in a downpour fishing the Pere Marquette with a Marmot lightweight Gore-tex jacket as the only waterproof layer. Had a fleece layer underneath which stayed perfectly dry - well, except the sleeve after reaching into the water to unsnag myself a few times. For a jacket that I don't think was intended for such use, it performed surprisingly well.
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
p m said:
Thank you. I was waiting for anyone to respond to Kris' plea for oilskins. Oilskins suck at just about anything but standing on an unprotected bridge of a shooner in a squall.
FWIW, -20C ain't that cold.

I've got an oilskin duster, of Australian make. I like it for weather that is seriously pissing me off. It is always in the Rover, folded tightly in the zipped bottom of a bag I carry for odd bits of wire, zip ties, and things of that nature. I strap it over my pack to better waterproof and protect it when required.

It's not something I'd run around wearing every day, however.

As for Barbour, I was going to mention it, but I forgot. Very good stuff. You get what you pay for.

Cheers,

Kennith