Question for iPhone smart people

AMCM Disco

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Jun 20, 2006
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gmookher said:
android geeks, whats a good TOPO and tracks app fo wheelin?

Backcountry Navigator is decent. ($9.99) Download maps prior to going and use the GPS and compass to navigate with topo, imagery, and either user defined waypoints or pre-set waypoints from the database.

I've not tried it (yet) - just spent the weekend in Moab and used my DeLorme PN on my dash mount... the phone was busy with the tunes. Google maps has been my go to but the issue of having to pre-load locations and zoom levels always bugged me and left me in my DeLorme.
 

msggunny

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Aug 3, 2007
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knewsom said:
From what I've heard, civillian GPS units are only given a partial key to decrypt GPS satellite signal. I've personally had poor GPS performance near some military bases - Pendleton, Vandenberg, etc. This may be a case of finding what you're looking for, but I've heard it from other people too. Haven't had any trouble at all since I got the 4S.
Never heard that, ive used civi gps's on several bases and they were as, and sometimes more, accurate than our mil gps systems.
 

Durt D1ver

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msggunny said:
Never heard that, ive used civi gps's on several bases and they were as, and sometimes more, accurate than our mil gps systems.

I know if you watch the gps trackers on our squad cars, If we have to drive up through NWS Earle, usually for a prisoner transport all of a sudden, you go from driving on rt34, to popping up somewhere in the middle of the atlantic ocean for about 3 miles, then back onto Rt34 after you exit the base.
 

Leslie

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GNSS = global navigation satellite system , which is the 'generic' term

GPS = global positioning system, which is the version built by the US DoD; has two services, a standard service (L1), and a precise service (L2). Most people (well, at least, in the circles I run in, of Americans) refer to GPS as if it's the generic term for all of the GNSS.

GLONASS = the Russian sat nav system. Some units now use both GPS and GLONASS signals, not just GPS. This is especially useful in Alaska (I've got friends there that have a limited exposure to the GPS constellation, but the GLONASS constellation has better coverage across the northern latitudes).

The EU and China are both working on similar systems; Galileo and Beidou (Compass), respectively.

A lot of cell phones use AGPS = Assisted GPS. This combines a GPS position with a location based off cell-tower locations, to improve the accuracy. (That's why I can be sitting on the couch at my house and my iPhone will plot my location right on my house, where my high-end Trimble units might not get a high-accuracy fix under a leaf-on tree canopy).

A lot of high-accuracy Trimble units don't seem to be as accurate, because they're more picky about signal quality, and have a hard time getting a fix when a Garmin might lock in right away. But, the Garmin can only calculate its location and record that; the Trimble saves all of the data used for making the calculation, which you can later post-process against a basestation, and have a more accurate location.

The US originally had Selective Availability, SA, which would intentionally vary the accuracy of a GPS location, for 'protection of military targets'. However, SA was turned off in 2000, and hasn't been turned back on.

One other thing to mention: it's possible to jam a GPS signal. It'd be possible for the US to jam signals near bases, it'd be easy to do if they wanted to; and, the AGPS system should correct some of that back out, lessening its impact - if it existed. Could be as simple as, the AGPS was just more accurate than a non-AGPS system.

While I'm at it, WAAS is Wide Area Augmentation System; it was started for the FAA, to improve GPS accuracy for aircraft coming in for landings. There are a bunch of stations across the continent, constantly reading GPS locations, but they know their precise location, so, they calculate a correction factor. All of these stations' results are turned into a data layer that two satellites broadcast out; if you're picking up a WAAS signal, your unit can use that to improve the accuracy of its calculation of your location. However, if you're elsewhere... say, in Europe, and have WAAS turned on, it would actually degrade your accuracy, as the correction is targeted for the continental US.

FWIW....
 

p m

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Les, looong time no hear. I see the Wag is gone?

I have a copy of Inside GNSS magazine in front of me, with a headline titled "Interference and Spoofing."
While I know that it is possible to jam GPS (the receivers, that is), and it happened to me in the past (harmonics of PCI bus clock landed right into L1 band), in general and for wide areas it is not that easy.
 

Leslie

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Still kickin', just been busy elsewhere, only lurkin' here these days... too many irons in too many fires...

Wag has been gone for a decade. Have to admit, I kinda wish I had one for the 16-yr-old son to drive, they feel like a main battle tank...

Wide area GPS jamming does seem to be hard, from what I understand; much easier to do such locally. (But, I'd expect that somewhere, we've got folks that can... just not widely known...)


+ + +

Back to the OP: yes. There are apps that download maps, and can work w/o coverage/signal. A lot of them do require connection, so, choose carefully to get one that can be stored locally.
 

GYM

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Oct 17, 2006
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stu454 said:
Groovy. Now I need to ditch T-Mobile or hope that the merger with ATT happens.

I thought the ATT - T-Mobile merger was dead. ATT pulled out in mid-Dec blaming regulators for the deal's demise.
 

p m

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Leslie said:
Still kickin', just been busy elsewhere, only lurkin' here these days... too many irons in too many fires...

Wag has been gone for a decade. Have to admit, I kinda wish I had one for the 16-yr-old son to drive, they feel like a main battle tank...

Wide area GPS jamming does seem to be hard, from what I understand; much easier to do such locally. (But, I'd expect that somewhere, we've got folks that can... just not widely known...)

No worries, Rovers make battle tanks no worse than FSJ - but my son (when he is home) likes to drive my 68.
Told me to never let it go.

Speaking of wide area GPS jamming - apparently, there's a spectrum allocation battle underway at FCC. LightSquared is dangerously close to become a country-wide GPS jammer.
 

Leslie

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p m said:
Speaking of wide area GPS jamming - apparently, there's a spectrum allocation battle underway at FCC. LightSquared is dangerously close to become a country-wide GPS jammer.

Been watching that closely, actually. The FCC was letting them stroll through, w/ industry screaming to put the brakes on its approval. When the DoD is telling them no, you'd think they'd listen. The problem for the high-accuracy folks is that yes, they licensed that adjacent spectrum for them, but, they required them to be able to use the whole band, not just one end; they caused the problem, then started claiming it was the GPS industry using it wrongly. (Even if the filter that Javad claims to work would, you can't retrofit it to all of the existing receivers out there).

I'm all for a nationwide wireless broadband; but NOT at the cost of GPS...
 

Disco2Guy

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Does Motion X actually track and record where you drive? I just downloaded it for voice navigation around town, and it doesn't seem to do that. On the trail I use GPS Kit all the time for the past 3+ years.
 

Leslie

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Yeah...

As I said, I think it'd be great to have broadband that blows 3G away on my phone (and I don't mean '4G'), from anywhere. I'd be tickled with that. But, if it's going to endanger every flight, screw up high-accuracy GPS use, etc., then no thank you...

The thing about it: Lightsquared started as, being satellite-based, so it was all good; it would have been at a low enough power level, shouldn't have been a problem. But then they realized they couldn't affordably do it from satellite, so they retooled it, turning it into a high-power cell-tower-based broadband with the satellite as a supplement component. But then tried to act like, it's the same thing they'd been proposing all along.

What I found simply ludicrous was that, yes, GPS companies had licensed those bands for the extra signals for accuracy-use, but it was that company that required them to be built so they could use the entire band range of their allotment, instead of designating just one end of the band, then turned around and claimed that it was the companies' fault that they didn't just use one end.

A lot of the Lightsquared folks are in the same kind of situation that Solyndra was in, that they had government staff and investors working together to get it through, over the DoD and FAA's objections.


Maybe they can sell off these band, and move up into different bands, that won't mess w/ GPS. That'd be great. Maybe they could go back to the satellite based model. I don't want to kill off the idea of 'broadband anywhere'; just not at the cost of the GPS infrastructure.
 

p m

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Leslie said:
A lot of the Lightsquared folks are in the same kind of situation that Solyndra was in, that they had government staff and investors working together to get it through, over the DoD and FAA's objections.

Sums up the company to a tee.

Leslie said:
Lightsquared's CEO has now resigned....

Good riddance.
On the other hand, lack of selective input filter devices on GPS receivers baffled me forever. There were indeed some sloppy engineering practices that will eventually have to be rectified.