R380 swap into '94 RRC LWB

[cosmic88]

I believe I know what shitstorm I am about to undertake but in the end it'll be fun and worth it... I hope. This is my first time doing this swap. My only previous transmission / clutch and transfer case work has been on my '66.

Patient is a '94 LWB with the ZF and a siezed B/W txfr case and the original 4.2.

Donor is a '94 D1 with a blown 3.9 with a rebuilt R380 and the LT230Q from a '98 D1 (was that the year they switched from the "T" suffix to the "Q"?). I am going to remove everything from the donor this weekend and have a few questions and want to confirm I am grabbing everything I'll need.

Planning to remove for swap:
- Trans / txfr
- Pedal box assembly
- Clutch master and all piping
- Flywheel from the 3.9
- All linkage
- E-Brake brackets and cables
- Mounting brackets
- Brake Booster / MC?


How about the front and rear shafts as far as length differneces? I did a bunch of searches already and see that Randall has been a great wealth of info on this in the past, Tiger Dan did it, Elias did you do this yet and Will and PT too? I know this is not new ground but it is to me so I'm going to dive in this weekend and check out the real differences between the pedal box assembly of the '94 D1 and the '94 RRC and take a bunch of measurements concerning the drive shafts to pinion flanges. Also the mounts... I assume these will need to be repositioned?

Any tips and info will be greatly appreciated. Gordo, you might have to make a drive into Orlando soon to "supervise". I'll take pics and such along the way... Thanks everyone.

 

[carlosz]

you state a tcase swap, are doing an auto to stick as well?
tcase swap you will need linkeage, front drive shaft, trans output shaft and parking brake cable with backing plate as well as mount bracket.. reccomended is the replacement of trans output seal and tcase input seal.
the wiring takes a little bit of thinking, one customer wanted it on the dash binnacle just like a disco where it ells you if you are locked or not, the other wanted it similar to the 87-88 where it has a separate light next to the radio and the other did not care at all, all he wanted was a buzzer.
auto to stick is a little more involved but not impossible as the vehicle is punched for stick, so when factory fitted with auto they simply used blanking plugs or replacement plates...you can make the plumbing or attempt to reuse the donnor, I would reccomend new slave and master clutch cylinders.
lots of patience is very heplfull.

 

[cosmic88]

you state a tcase swap, are doing an auto to stick as well?

.....auto to stick is a little more involved but not impossible as the vehicle is punched for stick, so when factory fitted with auto they simply used blanking plugs or replacement plates...you can make the plumbing or attempt to reuse the donnor, I would reccomend new slave and master clutch cylinders.
lots of patience is very heplfull.

Yes, this project will involve removal of the ZF22 auto trans and the Borg Warner VC transfer case. Replaced with R380 (from a '94 D1) AND the LT230Q (from a '98 D1). The D1 donor truck is sitting in my backyard so I have everything ready to be removed this weekend. The R380 was rebuilt about 10k miles ago and mated with the newer Lt230. At that time the trans output and txfr input seals were replaced. Plus, the clutch master and slave were replaced then too. Half the battle has already been fought and won.

 

[Frank84]

Doing this on my '89 this summer. You'll need the front driveshaft from the disco. If you have both trucks in the driveway, this is pretty ideal because you'll be able to go and get whatever small pins/clips you need to get things back together. The only thing you might be missing is a center console that works with the added range of motion of the diff lock funciton and the 5-speed shifter. However, I'm sure the disco console could be made to work with moderate creativity.

Fabing the clutch pedal in place may be the most difficult part actually. Since you have both boxes, you'll be able to make something that works, but it will take some cutting and welding to get it together. The disco pedal box will not work with your '94 classic (but does on '95 RRC's). If you are able to find an older classic pedal box they will have the threaded holes and a removable panel for the clutch master to bolt up. I'm not sure what the last year of this was, but my '89 has it and I'm pretty sure your '94 will not.

 

[Blueboy]

I get the lockable center diff, yet, why change out the auto box in a Rangie?

 

[cosmic88]

I get the lockable center diff, yet, why change out the auto box in a Rangie?

For the experience of it, because it is there, curiosity about the "handling", I happen to have all the necessary parts, this is my hobby...

There is a funny (to me) story behind this truck and I have been taking my sweet ass time restoring it. I picked it up for very cheap. The interior is really clean with good seats, interior trim, etc. The frame with zero rust and body are in especially good condition for its age. The entire dash is out and I've rebuilt the heater box, replaced all the damper seals, blower assembly and I just aquired the replacement forward wiring harness. The previous owner was clueless about elec-trickery and fried the brake switch circuit (put a 40 amp fuse in the circuit) which burned those wires all the way through the harness. Warning sign number two about potential "mods" that moron made was the speaker wire I found running back to the tail lights as a bullshit brake light bypass. Rather than try to find all the effected wires and chance putting it all back together and miss one small thing I decided to do it right and go for complete replacement. So I have easy access to the pedal box and bulkhead with nothing in my way.


and simply... because I want to. I rescued this RRC from certain death and have felt like taking my time to do it all right and make a few changes to it to suit my particular needs. I like driving a manual trans.

 

[Blueboy]

Fair enough and just curious.

 

[deepseaoutlaw]

I just finished up my swap. Not that bad but i did have a rhd pedal box so it was a lot easier than cutting and welding your box from the disco. I just swapped the pedals as the rhd are straight and the lhd have a bend to the right. Wiring was not really that hard. Just fallow the wire diagrams and you can get things back to normal. you will need to bypass the neutral start switch. its pretty easy just hook the two wires together. Is you 94 a sft dash? I know some of them were. If it is then its a straight part for part job.
I had to ask an endless amount of questions on a bunch of boards and i can't tell you how much hell i caught for wanting to do this swap. But in the end someone always gave me the answer i was looking for. If you run into a snag ill try to help if i can. Good luck, I love having a five speed in my rrc.

 

[92rrrandall]

This is what you should do about the part/neutral switch:

Replace the switch with an ~500ohm resistor. The 14CUX ECU is looking to see if the vehicle is in park/neutral or drive or if you have a manual transmission. The ~500ohm resistor tells the ECU that you have a manual transmission.

When the ECU senses that the trans is manual then it does not respond as quickly to throttle position sensor movements. Also it uses the TPS to determine when to control idle speed. It waits until the TPS is in the closed position for a few seconds before the ECU controls the engine speed.

Not trying to sell you anything but will also tell that a high performance chip works even better with a manual transmission.

Randall

 

[cosmic88]

This is what you should do about the part/neutral switch:

Replace the switch with an ~500ohm resistor. The 14CUX ECU is looking to see if the vehicle is in park/neutral or drive or if you have a manual transmission. The ~500ohm resistor tells the ECU that you have a manual transmission.

When the ECU senses that the trans is manual then it does not respond as quickly to throttle position sensor movements. Also it uses the TPS to determine when to control idle speed. It waits until the TPS is in the closed position for a few seconds before the ECU controls the engine speed.

Not trying to sell you anything but will also tell that a high performance chip works even better with a manual transmission.

Randall

That particular statement clarifies so much. I have been wondering about that very symptom in my D1 for a long time.

As for the chip, In assume this is simply a remap right? I do happen to have a spare eprom laying around I could send off to someone for an altered fuel map... it is one of the "cold start" chips they released way back when... Tune # 3652 never installed, still stashed in its anti-static baggie.

Looks like I'll be heading over to SkyCraft for a resistor soon. Thanks very much for that tip. Keep 'em coming.

 

[Gordo]

You can do it! Have Kaz bring some moonshine...It will go together easier! Gordo

 

[cosmic88]

You can do it! Have Kaz bring some moonshine...It will go together easier! Gordo

I already got some from him... but just a half litre of TN. mental lube.

The pulling process went well. Got the R380 and the LT230 out in one lump. HI-Lifted the truck about 25* toward the right and pulled the trans jack out from underneath. Removed the COMPLETE and 100% uncut wiring harness out of the truck, Trans cooler, rad, both trans / txfr mount brackets, pedal bracket.... Basically the entire truck is stripped. Cory wants the frame for yet another coiler hybrid project and someone else is getting the block for a Carb conversion project... don't ask why.

I keep getting flack all over the place for "molesting" one of the few remaining hard-dash LWB's by wanting to convert it to a manual. Would it really "kill" the value? Personally I think it'd be pretty sweet to do this. MInd you, this is not going to be a trail ride at all. It is getting a nice restoration... not many out there with Montpellier paint and the dark brown Sable interior... but still would anyone give a shit that much about the conversion? ALL LR parts and solid work. That's like saying with the Suspension Air bags are gone it is less desirable... I disagree and I think that even makes it more valuable / reliable.

I guess opinions are like assholes... mine smell like roses.

Next step is pulling out the original pedal box and test fitting everything like brake assist module and Clutch master in relation to the new / different bolt pattern in the bulkhead. Then install the replacement harness... that's going to be a bitch for sure.

 

[deepseaoutlaw]

bolt pattern for the boxes is the same but the one from the disco has the drop down for the steering column. the only thing that the brake booster/ clutch might get hung up on is the pump for the abs if you have that or the air pump for the suspension if that is still installed. i love that mine has a five speed. let the haters hate.:shooter2:

 

[Gordo]

I dont think it will hurt the value that much. May take the right buyer, but if you ask me it should be an upgrade. If nothing else a one of a kind rig. Not like a dude couldnt put the stock stuff back in if he so desired.

 

[rover4x4]

Id pay more for a 5 speed conversion if it was done "right"