raised air intake? What's the point?
- Thread starter derekdilks
- Start date
LOL, I answered your question knowledgeably, throughly, and accurately, and the best you can do is misquote someone else?
Of course I know the difference between a gas and diesel engine. Diesel is the stinky noisy one that develops superb mileage and excellent low end torque, right? You know, the ones you CANT GET HERE anyway, so what's the big deal? You didn't even know what Terrain Control does. I mean come on man, everybody knows that one!
Of course I know the difference between a gas and diesel engine. Diesel is the stinky noisy one that develops superb mileage and excellent low end torque, right? You know, the ones you CANT GET HERE anyway, so what's the big deal? You didn't even know what Terrain Control does. I mean come on man, everybody knows that one!
I will give them there due, there propensity to use profanity to describe there positions truly is becoming of the knuckle draggers. I mean they are really good! Instead of one Soup Nazi we have a gaggle of Land Rover Nazis. Did you know that a rear locker was not even an option on a DII, but it is on an LR3. Let's let the knuckle draggers chime in on that one. Now let's all duck and cover because the "knucklers" are about to go off-road postal on us.
G
gil stevens
Guest
PacificGroveRover said:
and thats relevant how? are you insinuating that the LR3 is more of an off-road vehicle then a Disco 2 because it has an optional locker? if thats the case, you are even more lost then anybody else. i apprecite the guys white LR3.. and at least hes trying to make it work. I like keeping tabs on his suspension setups. As far as i know, he is the only one with an even slightly modifiable LR3. but alas.. as hes finding out, the inherent design of the truck is the limiting factor. and you actually show your ignorance by suggesting that the bevy of electronics, the 113" wheelbase, the slew of CV joints, and the excessively complicated nature of the truck are negated by the fact that it was offered with a locker. it was offered with a locker to compensate..
You guys are kidding me, right? I thought I would dip into the LR3 forum just to see what it was all about. First thread, and I find myself reading a couple of guys debating Jack and Leslie on what makes a capable off-road vehicle.
Seriously? Rather than trying to learn from these two, you guys think you know more? Trust me, they aren't blowing smoke.
Seriously? Rather than trying to learn from these two, you guys think you know more? Trust me, they aren't blowing smoke.
Are you serious? A debate on what qualities make a capable off-road vehicle? Go review the thread again. Mr. Woods asked a question about an oil burner and JCQ hijacks the thread espousing his "All Knowning" omniscient, bow to my feet personaility layered in profanity.
In stock form the LR3 is the most cablable off road vehicle that Land Rover has built. Based on empirical evidence and a myriad of sources this point has been pretty much validated. The items below, I believe, represent some topics that set people off regarding the LR3:
1) The LR3 has a different look, some people like it and other people flat out hate it.
2) Electronics and air suspension: Everybody would agree that if you were going to take a vehicle to a remote region, you need to have a vehicle that is trail repairable. A LR3 is not going to be trail repairable unless you have the Land Rover Coporation behind you in support vehicles. Just like the avaition industry, electronics are here to stay. Regarding the airbags, does anybody have any failure rate information on Land Rover's new air suspension design?
3) Can the LR3 be easily modified? Not at this time!
I purchased my LR3 to take my family on trips around the country, camping, and to tackle trails that require a capable vehicle but not hard core rock crawling. I actually looked at a used D110, but having little ones and traveling 3,000 to 4,000 miles in that vehicle with small kids was not going to be a solution my family could bear.
In stock form the LR3 is the most cablable off road vehicle that Land Rover has built. Based on empirical evidence and a myriad of sources this point has been pretty much validated. The items below, I believe, represent some topics that set people off regarding the LR3:
1) The LR3 has a different look, some people like it and other people flat out hate it.
2) Electronics and air suspension: Everybody would agree that if you were going to take a vehicle to a remote region, you need to have a vehicle that is trail repairable. A LR3 is not going to be trail repairable unless you have the Land Rover Coporation behind you in support vehicles. Just like the avaition industry, electronics are here to stay. Regarding the airbags, does anybody have any failure rate information on Land Rover's new air suspension design?
3) Can the LR3 be easily modified? Not at this time!
I purchased my LR3 to take my family on trips around the country, camping, and to tackle trails that require a capable vehicle but not hard core rock crawling. I actually looked at a used D110, but having little ones and traveling 3,000 to 4,000 miles in that vehicle with small kids was not going to be a solution my family could bear.
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JSQ said:
By the way I am going to tee it up at Pebble Beach tomorrow before the football games tomorrow Mr. Woods. Would you like to join me?
PacificGroveRover said:In stock form the LR3 is the most cablable off road vehicle that Land Rover has built. Based on empirical evidence and a myriad of sources this point has been pretty much validated. The items below, I believe, represent some topics that set people off regarding the LR3:
QUOTE]
G
gil stevens
Guest
its defintely not the right direction. anybody who believes that the LR3 is the "best off-road vehicle" Land Rover has ever made shows their obvious lack of understanding of both Land Rovers and off-road vehicles.
"Best out of the box LR from the dealership" Hmmm this sounds like a fun debate?? and maybe deserves it's own thread... Look don't get me wrong LR3/D3 owners (I love my LR3HSE and it's performed well for me) but I'd have to go with a D90 or an 88 series truck as best out the box. DI's and RRC's do damn well too. And even a DII without locking diffs or CDL engaged do pretty well with just ETC. I personally love solid axles, and solids with coils are still the best in my book.
Look the simple fact that the LR3 has a Rear and Center diff lock, coupled with the traction control and height adjustability AND it's sealed doors/engine compartment gives it a killer headstart that kicks a lot of other peoples asses with stock vehicles of lessor manufacture. But it just can't compete with the timeless design superiority of a series truck or a D90 or for that matter a RRClassic. Even the RRC which has a VC and rear ETC coupled with the adjustable height suspension makes it an incredibly versatile vehicle out of the box.
I have to agree with kellymoe's statements above too....
You know it would be cool to get some people together who have stock representations from all of these and see how they perform on the same obstacles/trails.....
Look the simple fact that the LR3 has a Rear and Center diff lock, coupled with the traction control and height adjustability AND it's sealed doors/engine compartment gives it a killer headstart that kicks a lot of other peoples asses with stock vehicles of lessor manufacture. But it just can't compete with the timeless design superiority of a series truck or a D90 or for that matter a RRClassic. Even the RRC which has a VC and rear ETC coupled with the adjustable height suspension makes it an incredibly versatile vehicle out of the box.
I have to agree with kellymoe's statements above too....
You know it would be cool to get some people together who have stock representations from all of these and see how they perform on the same obstacles/trails.....
PacificGroveRover said:
Umm, OK. Let's see, I've off-roaded in 5 different stock Land Rovers: 1993 LWB Classic, a 1997 D1 which was mostly stock, a 1976 Series III Lightweight, a 2004 DII and a 2005 LR3. Which one do I think is the most capable right off the showroom floor.........the 2004 DII. Just one man's opinion though.
But to be completely honest they all have taken me down any trail I've wanted to go down and back out again and that is all that really matters.
Derek, I think you have a great idea, i wish I could compete! My truck is not stock however. Though...I do know a few guys with essentially stock RRS and LR3's (they both run Nitto's) that would be up for a challenge like this.
So, any year Land Rover with only factory supplied mechanical components, including suspension. A DI, DII, D90, RRC, P38, LR3, RRS and Mk3 - I think for purposes of uniformity, they should all be higher level trims, such as HSE or the equivalent for each model.
Man this sounds like a great article for LRL magazine!
So, any year Land Rover with only factory supplied mechanical components, including suspension. A DI, DII, D90, RRC, P38, LR3, RRS and Mk3 - I think for purposes of uniformity, they should all be higher level trims, such as HSE or the equivalent for each model.
Man this sounds like a great article for LRL magazine!
nwoods said:
Nathan,
I think we could get a group together. Series 88", D90, D110, D130
, RR Classic, P38, RR3 D1, D2, LR3. It would be good excuse to go wheeling for the day.Hungry Valley OHV area is close and has a fun little play area to test approach and departure angles, clearance, hill climbs etc.... it's not a tough area but it would be a easily controlled test area.
Kevin
Now combine the LR3's off-road capabilities with its on-road strengths, then I don't think any of the mentioned vehicles could out shine the LR3. From what I read, Land Rover had to build the LR3 as it relates to LR's solvency, but that is an entirely different thread. I do hope that Land Rover does bring over a Defender model back to the states to compete against Toyotas FJ and Jeeps Rubicon, if that happens then we will all be happy.
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Mr. Woods do you think you would have considered a new Defender 110 for your familiy if it was available in America? A new one though, that might just work. What do you think?
D
discobuddy
Guest
I have owned and wheeled a 2001 DII, 1990 RRC, and a 2006 LR3. The LR3 was by far the easiest vehicle to wheel with. It was more of a point and go experience. Don't get me wrong, in the beginning I thought the LR3 was a minivan with 4 wheel drive. However, I kept an open mind and am glad I did. There are many on this board who would rather keep a closed mind to the new Landies, highjack threads, and bash others opinons, than get out there and enjoy the trails with other people that have the same passion for Rovers as they do. So what if they drive a new generation Rover. I have seen guys in new LR3s with stock tires GY Wrangler tires do things that a D90 could not.
I will always have my DII, I will one day have a space for a D110, and there will always be room for the latest Rover in my quiver. Why? Because I love LR's, I love wheeling them, and I embrace their heritage. If you don't agree with the direction LR is heading, go buy a new Rover and start wheeling it. Neither you nor I will change their direction by complaining about it on these forums. The more people that wheel these new vehicles, the more LR will pay attention to that segment of the market.
I also suggest you take one and seriously wheel it before you make conclusions.
And lastly to the neigh sayers, If you are so deeply against the new Rovers, why are you looking at the LR3 Discussions section?
I will always have my DII, I will one day have a space for a D110, and there will always be room for the latest Rover in my quiver. Why? Because I love LR's, I love wheeling them, and I embrace their heritage. If you don't agree with the direction LR is heading, go buy a new Rover and start wheeling it. Neither you nor I will change their direction by complaining about it on these forums. The more people that wheel these new vehicles, the more LR will pay attention to that segment of the market.
I also suggest you take one and seriously wheel it before you make conclusions.
And lastly to the neigh sayers, If you are so deeply against the new Rovers, why are you looking at the LR3 Discussions section?
Nathan,
Apologies if I dumped you in it by replying to your "diesel/petrol" question. Obviously the tolerance levels are pretty fine on this board ....
OK - as far as the D3 (or LR3 or whatever you call it) and it's ability or lack thereof. My previous 4WD was a _very_ modified D1 TDI. I owned it for 8 years and competed in it for 3. As far as I know, I'm the only person who has competed in a D3 in State-sanctioned events. I won my class. I was one of the (few) stock vehicles there.
The point I'm trying to make is that in my experience, the TDV6 SE, which has the dreaded air suspension, more electronic pathways than a Cray, and the rear eDiff option, doesn't _need_ to be modified to be competitive. So whether you can or can't (and there are quite a few options outside of the USA if you really want to) is a moot point.
It will happily take on D1's and D2's with 2" lifts, 33" tyres and lockers. I know. I've done it. It is that good. It might not quite keep up with 4"+ machines on 35's (as my D1 was) but it'll be suprisingly close. Yes the wheelbase can be a problem on tight forest tracks, but you get used to it. You adjust.
For those of you that think it is unreliable, I think that would be an unending debate. I've taken mine across the Australian desert, towing a camper-trailer and I'd happily do it again. Some of the European's seem to have experienced some issues in very cold conditions with the early D3's. You'd need to wait another 5 years or so before there is enough data to formulate a conclusion.
Cheers,
Gordon
Apologies if I dumped you in it by replying to your "diesel/petrol" question. Obviously the tolerance levels are pretty fine on this board ....
OK - as far as the D3 (or LR3 or whatever you call it) and it's ability or lack thereof. My previous 4WD was a _very_ modified D1 TDI. I owned it for 8 years and competed in it for 3. As far as I know, I'm the only person who has competed in a D3 in State-sanctioned events. I won my class. I was one of the (few) stock vehicles there.
The point I'm trying to make is that in my experience, the TDV6 SE, which has the dreaded air suspension, more electronic pathways than a Cray, and the rear eDiff option, doesn't _need_ to be modified to be competitive. So whether you can or can't (and there are quite a few options outside of the USA if you really want to) is a moot point.
It will happily take on D1's and D2's with 2" lifts, 33" tyres and lockers. I know. I've done it. It is that good. It might not quite keep up with 4"+ machines on 35's (as my D1 was) but it'll be suprisingly close. Yes the wheelbase can be a problem on tight forest tracks, but you get used to it. You adjust.
For those of you that think it is unreliable, I think that would be an unending debate. I've taken mine across the Australian desert, towing a camper-trailer and I'd happily do it again. Some of the European's seem to have experienced some issues in very cold conditions with the early D3's. You'd need to wait another 5 years or so before there is enough data to formulate a conclusion.
Cheers,
Gordon
Great thread!
For PGR and Woods, my impression is that Jack & Leslie were not trying to say that the LR3 sucks, only that your assertions to its greatness are debatable. There's a commonality to all these posts (pro-LR3 or not) that do not consider the varying kinds of terrain and missions. Just a thought for all to keep in mind...
And Nathan, I'm not trying to bash your balls, but the diesel question did seem pretty silly if you're as much of a LR fan as you profess. I don't doubt your love for your LR3, and I don't have nearly the experience or knowledge that many (perhaps most) others on this forum have, but do some reading dude. Books and websites. Hell, even that Camel Trophy DVD has some good lessons learned. Tom Sheppard has some great books (other than the ever-popular Vehicle Dependant Expedition Guide), including a newer edition that has an insert addressing the recent technologies. Hell, there's even an LR3 on the cover! I can guess at your response - can't learn if you don't ask questions, etc... ok, fine. Learn some of the history of the marquee (including vehicle capabilities, innovations, and technologies developed over the years) if for no other reason than discussions around club campfires!
BTW, great videos of the Disco 3's crossing the streams (for those of you who remember how this thread started)! Any idea if those were TDV6 or V8s? I could hear the diesel engine in the third video but I think that sound came from the Defender where the video was being shot. TDV6 or not, there are a ton of electronics in these vehicles and I was impressed by the wading in those videos!!
For PGR and Woods, my impression is that Jack & Leslie were not trying to say that the LR3 sucks, only that your assertions to its greatness are debatable. There's a commonality to all these posts (pro-LR3 or not) that do not consider the varying kinds of terrain and missions. Just a thought for all to keep in mind...
And Nathan, I'm not trying to bash your balls, but the diesel question did seem pretty silly if you're as much of a LR fan as you profess. I don't doubt your love for your LR3, and I don't have nearly the experience or knowledge that many (perhaps most) others on this forum have, but do some reading dude. Books and websites. Hell, even that Camel Trophy DVD has some good lessons learned. Tom Sheppard has some great books (other than the ever-popular Vehicle Dependant Expedition Guide), including a newer edition that has an insert addressing the recent technologies. Hell, there's even an LR3 on the cover! I can guess at your response - can't learn if you don't ask questions, etc... ok, fine. Learn some of the history of the marquee (including vehicle capabilities, innovations, and technologies developed over the years) if for no other reason than discussions around club campfires!
BTW, great videos of the Disco 3's crossing the streams (for those of you who remember how this thread started)! Any idea if those were TDV6 or V8s? I could hear the diesel engine in the third video but I think that sound came from the Defender where the video was being shot. TDV6 or not, there are a ton of electronics in these vehicles and I was impressed by the wading in those videos!!
Bender said:Great thread!
For PGR and Woods, my impression is that Jack & Leslie were not trying to say that the LR3 sucks, only that your assertions to its greatness are debatable. There's a commonality to all these posts (pro-LR3 or not) that do not consider the varying kinds of terrain and missions. Just a thought for all to keep in mind...
And Nathan, I'm not trying to bash your balls, but the diesel question did seem pretty silly if you're as much of a LR fan as you profess. I don't doubt your love for your LR3, and I don't have nearly the experience or knowledge that many (perhaps most) others on this forum have, but do some reading dude. Books and websites. Hell, even that Camel Trophy DVD has some good lessons learned. Tom Sheppard has some great books (other than the ever-popular Vehicle Dependant Expedition Guide), including a newer edition that has an insert addressing the recent technologies. Hell, there's even an LR3 on the cover! I can guess at your response - can't learn if you don't ask questions, etc... ok, fine. Learn some of the history of the marquee (including vehicle capabilities, innovations, and technologies developed over the years) if for no other reason than discussions around club campfires!
BTW, great videos of the Disco 3's crossing the streams (for those of you who remember how this thread started)! Any idea if those were TDV6 or V8s? I could hear the diesel engine in the third video but I think that sound came from the Defender where the video was being shot. TDV6 or not, there are a ton of electronics in these vehicles and I was impressed by the wading in those videos!!
I am quick to defend the capablities of the LR3, true. Open minds, fair discussions not profanity and ridiculous assumptions should drive these discusssions. Jack and Leslie did not take that approach. Yes Woods did ask a question that it would seem he should know, but that gives them no right to hi-jack the thread and go postal.
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