Removing cross beam to drop y pipe questions/concerns

[SlippytheDisco]

Hello, I have a 2004 Land Rover discovery 2. I have been battling an exhaust leak where the y pipe connects to the exhaust manifold. I tried to file down the y pipe in place, but I don’t believe I did a good enough job, as the leak is still prevalent. I stripped a stud in my exhaust manifold, so I’ll have to remove that anyways. I figured why not remove everything and have it machined down for shits and giggles. I see no other way to remove the y pipe other than to remove the cross beam. The cross beam looks pretty gnarly to remove, and I’m unsure if the bolts holding it in would ever budge. I’m also concerned about removing it for structural support to the frame. If it isn’t needed though, perhaps I won’t even put it back on (if I can manage to get it off). Any suggestions/ input toward removal welcome, haven’t been able to find much info about it. Thank you.

 

[rovercanus]

Take it off and throw it away.
By now, all the bolts are going to break anyway. I haven't run that cross member in my D2's for years.

 

[Grum.man]

I haven't run the front cross member either.

 

[SlippytheDisco]

Take it off and throw it away.
By now, all the bolts are going to break anyway. I haven't run that cross member in my D2's for years.

From what I remember, there’s two cross beams that prevent the y pipe from coming out. You guys are saying it’s alright to remove them and not put them back on? Just making sure we are talking about the same thing before I CANT get it back on

 

[Grum.man]

I'm only suggesting removal of the front one. Besides, it was hitting my driveshaft when the suspension fully articulates. For the rear one, soak the bolts in penetrating oil for several days, recoating it every day. Then remove them with a ratchet, not a power tool. If they start to get tight, reverse the rotation to clean the threads out. If you break one off they aren't that bad to drill out.

 

[SlippytheDisco]

I'm only suggesting removal of the front one. Besides, it was hitting my driveshaft when the suspension fully articulates. For the rear one, soak the bolts in penetrating oil for several days, recoating it every day. Then remove them with a ratchet, not a power tool. If they start to get tight, reverse the rotation to clean the threads out. If you break one off they aren't that bad to drill out.

Sounds good, and you haven’t had any issues after having the front one removed?

 

[Grum.man]

Sounds good, and you haven’t had any issues after having the front one removed?

No, I dont think it's big enough do much in the way of stiffening. It's original purpose may have only been to retain the front driveshaft incase it departed the chat. lol

 

[4Runner]

Also look at the flanges of your exhaust manifold while your changing your exhaust studs. You might be surprised that it’s not flat either. I squared up all the flanges while they were off. I used a long flat file and some care. Also used a metal ruler to check the flatness.

 

[SlippytheDisco]

Also look at the flanges of your exhaust manifold while your changing your exhaust studs. You might be surprised that it’s not flat either. I squared up all the flanges while they were off. I used a long flat file and some care. Also used a metal ruler to check the flatness.

I believe I’m going to take it to a machine shop just to have a professional level everything off, so I leave no stone unturned. I will ask them to do this as well, thanks

 

[JohnB]

My down pipe a few of the welds cracked. That was my leak after assuming it was my gasket and/or cracked manifold. Manifold left the chat a few years later.

 

[SlippytheDisco]

My down pipe a few of the welds cracked. That was my leak after assuming it was my gasket and/or cracked manifold. Manifold left the chat a few years later.

Good to know, I’ll make sure to check that as well. Thanks for the suggestions!

 

[special ed]

They crack just below the flange at the welds. As for the cross member take it off and toss it in the scrap. Its of no concern except to the OCD person that cant get past the edge of the square box. You might get lucky and get the bolts out, most of the time they strip and have to be cut off. If you lift it then it has to be removed anyway because the driveshaft hits against it.

 

[terryjm1]

When I did my 300tdi conversion I couldn’t use as it’s in the way. I found a 300tdi version but it’s been sitting for years. Now I’m wondering even if I should bother. I assumed it was needed for structural purposes.

 

[Siia109]

My rule of thumb - which no one asked for - If a structural member is not needed then the manufacturer isn't going to install it for "shits & giggles". With all due respect of the expertise on this site - somebody somewhere in the process of designing this vehicle, who had a bunch of schooling in automotive design determined it was needed as more than just a "retaining bracket" for potential mechanical failures. I fully understand vehicles have things installed that exist for non-structural reasons and simply to make the vehicle handle better on pavement or have a better ride etc. These cross braces ain't one of them - again IMHO.

As someone who has dealt with structural engineers on steel high rise buildings and pushed back on their designs as overkill - I quickly realize there are forces at play that are not obvious that they design to or are considering. And buildings are relatively simple with predictable loads. A ladder frame in a vehicle that is flexing and taking loads and seeing stresses in multiple directions.... that's a very different kettle of fish.

Again - It's just my "cautious" rule thumb - YMMV.

Respectfully -

 

[terryjm1]

My rule of thumb - which no one asked for - If a structural member is not needed then the manufacturer isn't going to install it for "shits & giggles". With all due respect of the expertise on this site - somebody somewhere in the process of designing this vehicle, who had a bunch of schooling in automotive design determined it was needed as more than just a "retaining bracket" for potential mechanical failures. I fully understand vehicles have things installed that exist for non-structural reasons and simply to make the vehicle handle better on pavement or have a better ride etc. These cross braces ain't one of them - again IMHO.

As someone who has dealt with structural engineers on steel high rise buildings and pushed back on their designs as overkill - I quickly realize there are forces at play that are not obvious that they design to or are considering. And buildings are relatively simple with predictable loads. A ladder frame in a vehicle that is flexing and taking loads and seeing stresses in multiple directions.... that's a very different kettle of fish.

Again - It's just my "cautious" rule thumb - YMMV.

Respectfully -

My thought was it would have a role in a side impact collision. I dunno?

 

[best4x4]

D1 and D2 Frame Supports = 2 totally different things. The D1 sandwiched between the frame and supports the transmission section of the frame. A D2 has 1 Frame Support mounted by the TC/Transmission and I have NEVER removed one of those. The Frame Support in question was always called a catalytic converter guard when I was around D2's when they were new and at the dealers.

Kinda like I see people running around with an ARB front bumper yet they still have the bumper support/steering guard support still mounted = totally useless. I have always removed the most forward Frame Support on a D2 after it's lifted because the driveshaft will grind into it no doubt and kill it. If you simply lower the Frame Support you are just creating a low spot under your D2 to get caught on an obstacle while off road. The TC/Transmission part of the frame is still fully supported by the other crossmember.