Removing Swaybars, road safety and staying alive. (Long)

[xtravrt]

Hey everyone. Tested out my lifted 02 disco's emergency handling this weekend. Thankfully, I was just about to remove my rear sway, but hadn't yet. I just finished installing the new lift and was about to remove it, as well as the front cross member. I had the rear sway removed in my 00 disco and had no il effects on the highway, but I did not have the opportunity or misfortune to do a real life test.

Anyway, I was on my way out fishing and towing a 16' lund boat and motor. I was on a divided (thankfully) two lane highway, and was following another guy in a truck. I had met this guy while offroading once before and he wanted to show me a good back country fishing spot, so he suggested we go out and bring my boat. He had just finished installing a safari rack on his POS Suzuki and had all his crap on the rack.

I didn't see the axe fly off, but let me tell you, I definitely saw it flying through the air towards me and coming straight for my driver's side windshield!! I swerved right to miss it and lost control, then swerved left to correct as I hit the gravel shoulder with the PS tires. The truck then popped up onto ther two left tires. I was sliding sideways on half a truck - waiting to roll over to my death, when I heard a big BANG! The truck slammed back down and I regained control in time to see the boat behind me fading into the distance - carreening down the centerline on the tongue, while rolling back and forth on it's port and starboard gunnels. I pulled off to the shoulder and looked back in the mirror. There was heavy lake traffic and cars had been bumper to bumnper going 60 MPH. It looked like the scene from a movie or TV news. There were vehicles skidded to the left and right for what seemed like a mile or more back - exluding the ones that blew past me while trying to avoid the rapidly decelerating boat and truck.

Some guys came over and we all quickly dragged the boat to the side, and as we surveyed the damage, the traffic started to move again. Some nice lady in a minivan stopped by to say, " Here's you axe..." with a not-so-impressed" look on her face. It was amazing how fast everyone was gone and traffic was back to normal. No one stopped to ask if we needed help or what happened. They just quickly helped clear the road and were gone. Of course, other than the dumbass with the POS Suzuki.

The boat is totalled and NOT insured. The trailer was insured, but the boat that came with it is not. Apparently I had the wrong insurance. I've only had the boat about a month, so it was an oversight on my part. Therefore, I'm out the $5,000 I paid for the boat.

So, here's what I learned this weekend:

1) Swaybars: If you are going to remove your swaybars, you better think about what you are carrying. I.E. Loved ones. I'm not sure if the saved my life or not, or if they are what caused me to pop onto two tires in the first place, but I can't help thinking things would have truend out much differently if I didn't have them on. I have two boys so I am now rethinking things since they ride with me a LOT.

2) Tie your shit down! A rubber bungie cord is not going to do it. If you are using bungee cords on a rack, than you are a total dumbass! If this were a two way highway, someone would have been killed for sure. I'm totally surprised no one was hurt or killed. This is the second time I have exeprienced this. A pastor once passed me who was using a spare tire to hold down the tarp on a load of wood. A gust of wind took it and threw it way high in the air. It hit the road, bounced, then came straight at me. I slammed on the brakes and it hit the ground right in front of me skipping up and over the hood - inches away from the windshiled as I leaned WAY back in the seat in a futile attempt to get further away. As I was breathing a sigh of relief, I watched in the rearview mirror as it landed squarely on the hood/grill of a brand new saturn behind me. There was coolant and oil everywhere and it was completely. The windshield was smashed and the girl cried as she pointed to the temporary insurance sticker from the dealership. She had just bought it two days before. She was inches away from being killed.

3) Cross check each other's gears. If you are travelling with someone who has stuff tied on their rack, double check their shit for them. Make sure that it's safe before you ride with them, and especially before you follow them. There are other people on the road though too so it's not a bad idea. Pilots do it all the time. This is even more important when you are heading out with someone you don't know well. I.E. Might be a dumbass.

4) Make sure you have the proper insurance before you tow anything. I was covered for liability but not damage. So, that makes me the dumbass. Don't be a dumbass too.

There are more, but I'm sure you are all tired of reading my ramblings...

At least I'm alive to bitch about it I guess.

 

[cmoore207]

Holy cow! Glad everybody made it out of that one without injury!

 

[jhmover]

Long winded but true.

I saw something similar years ago. Some dumbass didn't secure his spare to the back of his motorhome. The spare fell off. The guy behind him and wife in a Ford Maverick for some reason swerved into the opposing lane even though there was lots of shoulder. He hit a small Ford sedan head-on. The Maverick flipped 2 comeplete times in mid-air, the roof barely kissed the ground on the second roll and it landed right side up. The small Ford spun a couple of times then came to a rest on the shoulder facing the opposite direction.

Unlike some people I did stop. The guy's wife in the Maverick was laying in the street dying, he had slid across the front seat and whacked his head on the door pillar and was dead with a large hole in the side of his head (very messy). There were 4 people in the small Ford, 3 were shocked and dazed but I don't think were seriously hurt. The driver was stuffed (literally) in between the steering wheel and the door. The small Ford was starting to catch fire, I had grabbed my extinguisher and kept putting it out so the people in the car wouldn't cook. I was afraid to move anyone although I would have if I hadn't been able to keep the fire out in the engine compartment.

Do you think anyone would stop? I asked one lady for a blanket who went by the other way in a motor home to cover the lady in the street and try and slow down the shock and she wouldn't give me one. I barked at her to tell my wife to bring moving blakets I had in the back of my vehicle and at least she did that. People slowed and loooked and not one person stopped to assist.

The woman in the small Ford died while I was standing there. They say your life passes before your eyes when you die, judging by he massive rapid eye movement while she was dying I'd bet it does.

The CHP arrived 15-20 minutes later (not dissing them this was before cell phones were popular and out in the boondocks so 15-20 min wasn't bad). They had the fire departement, ambulances, life flight helicopter even. I finally left after everyone was done taking care of the victims.

One thing I'm very convinced of is that seat belts make a REAL difference. I believe the two people in the Maverick would have lived if they had their seatbelts on and same with the woman in the small Ford. The other 3 passengers had seat belts on and they survived.

I about walked away from a head-on collision a few months ago and I'm firmly convinced I would have kicked the bucket with no seatbelt.

I sound like commercial but I don't even go to the store 2 blocks away without my seatbelt on.

Glad all survived and no one was injured. Sorry about your boat. You should consider putting the morons ax someplace the sun doesn't shine - head first of course!

JH

JH

 

[mgreenspan]

How fast were you going when you did your emergency road manuever?

I've got my rear sway bar removed but kept the front one on with disconnects. I've got the disconnects for the rear but took it off anyways. I feel comfortable driving with it off and even comfortable with it off and braking extremely hard and changing lanes to avoid things. I think there may be some difference in the original handling, but from what I can tell the truck acts the same way it did after the lift and new tires when I had the sway bar on in the rear. Im sure there are tons of factors that make all our trucks different so I don't think that there is any real validity for others with how my disco handles with the rear one removed.

Glad you're ok. Sorry about the boat.

Nobody stops for accidents anymore probably because there are so many each day that most people just don't even get phased by them except to slow down and look to see how "bad" it was so they can tell whoever is at where they are driving about the "horrible" accident they saw on the way. Some times the people that do stop get hit by dumbasses not paying attention to whats going on around the road and that pisses me off more than anything. My bro lost one of his best friends just stopping to ask if somebody needed help with a flat tire. Cars and dangerous and most people don't realize it.

 

[NorCalDiscoII]

Shit man, good story, glad you're ok!

This is precisely why I think everyday driving without things like swaybars, crossmembers, etc. is a f-ing stupid idea. Say what you will about how "nice" a truck handles with half of it's parts missing, but everyone knows it's BS. Shit is there for a reason.

Now the boat loss just sucks! An x-friend of mine bought a loaded $50K Centurion last year. Somehow his insurance lapsed when he switched the policy. His girl was pulling him and I, and being the stupid moron that she was, landed the boat on the rocks. Luckily three people inside got away with just a few cuts, but the boat was totaled... Two weeks later he crashed his new F150 and was fired from work for BS disability claim. From what I've heard last, Chapter 13 was his way out.

Oh, and as far as people not stopping goes... karma's a bitch!

 

[romigenv]

On a recent trip to South Carolina I had to make an emergency maneauver in my Disco II with 2" lift and bigger tires. I removed front sway while doing lift, but kept back on. I swerved to miss a truck tire re-tread that was comming down the highway. Was following my parents. Had my wife and 4 week old son in car. As soon as I swerved left, the truck took over and brought me back to the right without control. Luckily, no one was in right lane. Was on I-95 in NC. I basically just left the thing go until it calmed down. I, nor anyone else around at the time, don't understand how I can get that far over (leaning) and not roll. I had two bikes on top and a ski box full of stuff. As well as the back was full of stuff for 17 days. Not sure if the sway not being connected in the front hurt or helped. I think it may have caused me to loose control a little quicker, but then may have given enough on leaning that it didn't roll. Anyway, after that incident, I rearranged my load a bit to make the top as light as possible and put myself in the right lane to extend our lives. I'm much slower now. Especially in the Disco.

About stopping to help. I'm not sure where I get this from because my parents don't really stop. Not that they aren't nice people, but people from my town just keep to themselves. Anyway, I was heading out of DC one night a few years ago on the GW Parkway. I think it was January (cold out) and it was raining a bit in the city. I had a saab at the time. Once out of the city I was following a buick (not real close though). All of the sudden I saw him hit the side of a bridge almost head on. At that time I realized that the road must be icy. So I tapped the brakes to confirm and it didn't take but a light touch to lock the wheels. So I let the car slow and eased my way past his car which slid just past the bridge but up onto the abutment. I pulled off the road onto the grass. I got out to walk over and see if he was ok and as soon as I stepped onto the road, I fell. I have never seen that much clear ice on a road before. You couldn't even stand up without holding onto something. Anyway, I made my way over to see if he was ok. He was. Turned out to be a businessman from TN. Was a rental car. His car was half in the road and there was taffic coming. So I took him off the road and the traffic started to pile up on the bridge. One after another hit their brakes and skidded until they hit something. I stuck around quite a while until help was on the way and the traffic basically stopped. The gentleman from TN was so amazed that someone was willing to stop and help in an area like that. He just couldn't believe it. All he had to offer was a pen, which I still use to this day (about 9 years later) in appreciation of my willingness to stop.

There isn't much that stops me from getting where I'm going. So I got back in my car, crossed the median and made my way back to the girls apartment in DC. Told her the roads were too bad for me to go home. Worked. On my way back to DC, there were cars all over the place. I was the only one moving though. I put one side on the grass at all times and that gave me enough traction to keep going. Cars sitting still would start to slide down slight grades. It was awsome.

I always stop. I guess I just feel the need to help those in need.

 

[parthog]

Simplified: Removing the rear sway will make the front washout easier, removing the front sway (only) will make the rear slide more easily which is much harder to control, I'd keep 'em both for highway use (especially towing) if possible.

- Jeff

 

[kln]

After thinking about it would you not agree that taking the axe in the windshield was the safer choice? Last year I saw a Jeep Grand Cherokee almost roll at 120km/hr trying to avoid a gopher. One of the scariest things I've seen was looking at that Jeep on two wheels. There are choices in most situations and people really need to understand that avoidance is not always the best solution.

I'm glad you made it through okay.

kln

 

[nosivad_bor]

my old range rover didn't even come with them, as far as i am concerned you dont need them if your springs are stiff enough.

 

[garrett]

my old range rover didn't even come with them, as far as i am concerned you dont need them if your springs are stiff enough.

i removed the rears on my D1 with RTE springs, etc. towing a horse trailer at 40 mph max is all the fun i need.
is noticable with the rear removed compared to the other D1s i have with them connected still.
did that RRC Rob even go over 50 mph?

 

[nosivad_bor]

up hill and down.

did you ever castor correct the disco? new bushings. Those things can make a good disco drive like shit. i've toad a few things and i was happy. could be that our roads are shit and i am used to adventurous driving.

ribit

rd

 

[Eric N.]

I read some where that more people die avoiding deer then actually hitting them..

 

[garrett]

I read some where that more people die avoiding deer then actually hitting them..

i have hit two in the past few years. not once did i think of swerving. last one in the D1 i actually drove OVER. it was a messed up feeling.
to see it........then hit it square.......then run over it. but not a scratch.

could be rob that i have some worn bushings, but these things don't tow worth a shit as it is. then add big tires, heavy steel rims, etc........well........they suck even more. the short wheelbase is what really kills the towing ability.

 

[nosivad_bor]

Word up garrett. they arent the best tow vehicle to start with.

 

[bri]

Securing your junk is common sense. I'd sue the bastard in the Suz for the cost of the boat.

Your insurance may cover it. Tell them you forgot to mention it. Like a automobile, it might be covered, dunno what the time limits are for notifying insurance of a new purchase, but there is some time. I rarely exceed 65 in my rig, and would never even think about towing, I think I am fine without sways.

Post should be under general-- no tech.

 

[p m]

yeah, it may be more about securing the load than the sway bars. But - between two of my vehicles with very similar weight, wheelbase, spring rate, and shocks - one that does have sway bars handles light years ahead of the one that does not.

Anytime I carry something on the roof, I try to have backup tiedowns besides the primary ratchet straps (at the very least, bungee cords). You'd at least have a warning that something came loose.

 

[bri]

Tup. Like anything, you must stay within your ability. No sways? Slow down. Simple.

Traveling bumper to bumper on highway is bad in itself. I tend not to trust a soul with a rack. If there is a loaded rack in front of me I increase the distance between vehicles. The best offense is a good defence.

 

[MUSKYMAN]

alright heres the prick in me coming out.

Its not the sway bars it's the driver.

I have no sway bars on my disco and havent for a long time, fact is they dont really do that much.

this all happened because someone that owned a boat for 1 month was driving like he was alone on the road not pulling a boat.

Pulling a trailer is a very risky thing in general, you need to understand that your stopping distances and control are diminished every time you pull a trailer.


Xtravert quoted

" I definitely saw it flying through the air towards me and coming straight for my driver's side windshield!! I swerved right to miss it and lost control"


sorry but if a police officer was to hear this he would and should write you up for following to close...plain and simple. I dont care how fast you are going if a ax falls off the truck in front of you and you are at the correct distance you should be able to just ride right by it as it sits stationary on the ground. at 9.8 meters per second falling speed plus 2 or 3 seconds for it to come to rest , it still dosent pose a threat to someone that is using common sence and leaving room for them to drive and pull a trailer safely.

up above someone made a comment about more people are killed avoiding deer then hitting them. This is true but it goes way farther then deer. People are more likely to be killed in roll overs trying to avoid accideants then if they were to reduce speed in a straight line and let the car absorb the crash as it was designed to do.

I pull trailers with my disco without sway bars all the time and have never had a problem and I believe that anyone that pays attention to what they are doing and follows safty precautions will be just fine.

BUT IF YOU DRIVE TO FAST AND FOLLOW TO CLOSE AND PULL A TRAILER WITHOUT PROPER SAFTY CHAINS TO RETAIN YOUR TRAILER YOU WILL CAUSE A TERRIBLE ACCIDENT!!!!!


I too am very glad nobody was injured and am sorry you lost your boat. But I also believe that the safty of your children has way more to do with your restraint then the sway bars you seem to be so concerned about.

MM

 

[KevinNY]

I give WIDE berth to vacationers with 5 bikes hanging off a Wal-Mart rack almost dragging the ground in their overloaded minivan, see it all the time in summer. Saw one fall off coming off Cape Cod once, it was like a bicycle grenade. Behind any rack that is not truly secured to a vehicle is a big red zone, I agree.

 

[xtravrt]

mgreenspan wrote: How fast were you going when you did your emergency road manuever?

I was going 60mph, which was the posted limit.

KLN wrote: After thinking about it would you not agree that taking the axe in the windshield was the safer choice?

I guess see your point. The only problem is, that I would have had to swerve left to take the axe in the passenger side of the windshield, which might have meant sideswiping and running aomeone else off the road. I was in the right lane and took the shoulder. I didn't have much time to react. At first I just saw something flying towards me from the sky above. At the last split second, my spider sense kicked in and I saw it was an axe, and it was headed straight for my face. If that truck was a quarterback and the axe was a football, it would have been dead-on. In fact, I guess if I tok the axe, it would have been "dead" on alright!

BRI wrote: I guess when I say bumper to bumper, I should say that it was heavy traffic compared to normal. It was highway speed though and everyone was busy trying to get out fo the city to go to the lake. The truck in front of me was I would say about 50 meters in front of me. There were cars beside and behind me all anxious to pass me and loads of traffic ahead of me travelling at various speeds.

Sorry about not posting in general. I rarely hang out elsewhere and I have seen the sway bar issue come up occassionally. Seemed relevant.

MuskyMan wrote: this all happened because someone that owned a boat for 1 month was driving like he was alone on the road not pulling a boat.

Okay, I see your point, but let's clarify. This is NOT the first time I have towed anything. I have a Ford F150 and up until recently had a hobby farm with horses. I have towed horse trailers, boats, snowmobile trailers, utility trailers, cars, etc. I am 37 and have had lots of driving experience with and without trailers. I live in a rural area and commute to the city everyday, sometimes twice a day and put on in excess of 40,000 miles per year, much of it highway. This is my second disco, and I did a fair amount of towing with it, although I usually opt for the Ford for big stuff. The rear sway was removed on the old disco and I did not notice problems. I wasn't driving like I was alone. I was drving perfect safe. The safety chains came with the traler and looked okay. They were looped through eyelets in the trailer tongue and these eyelets broke off when the trailer rolled over. Anyway, I don't think I could have done much other than take the axe, in which case I would be dead and so would a lot more people because my truck would have lost its pilot. I did manage to regain control, so I guess that says something.

The owner of the axe phoned me last night. We talked again about wehat happened and he said that he saw the axe fall off the rack and bounce first then go back up in the air. That means that the axe went up and was coming back down a second time. What I remember is seeing the truck in front and then seeing the axe. I guess my brain filled in the rest based on the assumption that the wind must have flipped it up like that tire I spoke of, in order for it to be that high in the air when I saw it. It definitely wasn't a straight drop off the back of his truck to my windshield. I was WAY too far back for that. I'm not exactly sure how far, but it seemed like a safe distance at the time based on my experience. Anyway, I'm not sure why I am defending myself. The only reason this happened was because the axe fell of the truck, NOT because I was following too close, too inexperienced or because my boat and trailer were unsafe.

As for stopping, I always stop. That being said, I'm usually always packing something, and I don't really worry about stuff like that. It's just the right thing to do. I make sure I am well off the highway though and almost always have road flares with me.

Got the word from the insurance company and there is some kind of extension to my policy that will cover me for $1000 net of deductible. Better than nothing I guess. Suing is an option but I don't think I will. Just not my style and it *was* an accident. I agree he was a little negligent, but it was not intentional and the guy looks like he can't afford to pay anyway.