Rod Bearing Cap Bolt problem

kdigby13

Member
Sep 6, 2021
13
2
New Orleans, LA
Hey y’all, I have a D1 and I’m trying to replace my rod bearings…I have my oil pan off, but can’t seem to get the bearing cap bolts off to access the bearings. They won’t budge at all. Even tried using impact driver to get them off and nothing. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

even more frustrating b/c I replaced bearings, oil pump and few other odds and ends last weekend in my brothers jeep, and was a piece of cake.

Thanks for your time, and hope to hear back from you soon
 

kdigby13

Member
Sep 6, 2021
13
2
New Orleans, LA
Nevemind, talked to my brother…he said to man up and stop being a pu**y…that worked…that and a black iron cheater bar pipe…Either way, while I’ve got your attention, can y’all confirm the torque specs for putting those bolts back are 15lbs/ft + 80 degree turn?
 
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DarylJ

Well-known member
Apr 3, 2011
440
24
Doylestown, PA
I was going to suggest you simply didn't have enough bar stock on your breaker bar........ but you have that sorted.

The docs I have says 20 Nm + 80 degrees. I think you'll be fine either way (I used those docs last time I did this and it was still running last I knew 5+ years ago)
 

terryjm1

Well-known member
Jan 23, 2011
1,490
376
Yeah, I tore down a 4.0 about a year ago and I was surprised how much effort it took to break them loose. It had been years since the last time. I thought maybe I was just getting old. Could just be me but I think stretch bolts take more effort to remove than install. Just to confirm, you are using new bolts, correct?
 
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DarylJ

Well-known member
Apr 3, 2011
440
24
Doylestown, PA
In my experience stretch bolts in anything that's been run for a while always seem to be <crack> <crack> squeealllllll before they loosen up.
 

StangGT5

Well-known member
Feb 4, 2019
295
131
Atlanta, GA
Yeah, I tore down a 4.0 about a year ago and I was surprised how much effort it took to break them loose. It had been years since the last time. I thought maybe I was just getting old. Could just be me but I think stretch bolts take more effort to remove than install. Just to confirm, you are using new bolts, correct?

Yes, OP please use new bolts. They're stretch bolts.

Rovers North, Atlantic British, Lucky 8 LLC, etc. all sell aftermarket ones that work fine. I prefer Genuine LR bolts from Rimmer Bros or an eBay seller named "crossaxledcustoms" from which I also buy cam bearings.
 

kdigby13

Member
Sep 6, 2021
13
2
New Orleans, LA
Ok y’all, update:

I got all the new bearings in, yes new bolts, and new oil pan gasket as well. In addition, I added new plugs, plus wires, and ignition coil pack.

when I started it for the first time, it was a little tough to start, but not rumbly, and promptly stopped like an engine stall.

I started it again and it started and idled, but noticed the check engine light was flashing.

I torqued those bearings to the proper setting, but had a feeling they were a little tight because when I spun/cranked the engine by hand it was very very difficult to do.

Part of me wants to just let it idle and have those new bearings break in a little. I’ll take the oil pan back off to loosen if I have to, but would obviously prefer not to.

Do any of y’all have any thoughts or opinions?
 

DarylJ

Well-known member
Apr 3, 2011
440
24
Doylestown, PA
You can't "loosen" them.

Did you use brand new stretch bolts or did you re-use the old ones? If you reused the old ones that's your problem.
 

terryjm1

Well-known member
Jan 23, 2011
1,490
376
Oil pump may have lost prime. Did the oil pressure light go out? Also, if you replaced standard bearings with standard bearings it should not be that tight. How do the old bearings look?

i would double check you put the bearing caps in the same position / alignment they were removed.

Also, a 4.0 D1 can use a pan gasket but isn’t how Land Rover intended. A couple weeks ago I took the pan down to see if there was sludge in the bottom of one of mine. A previous owner had installed a cork gasket… it was leaking. I reinstalled it with specified sealer. While there was no sludge (hoping there was as the oil light stays on longer than I would like at start up) at least the pan no longer leaks.

If you are not moving oil, it will be locked up soon. I would get some more bolts and see what is going on with those bearings. I’m always hesitant to replace rod bearings as I worry if there are other well worn bearings, for instance camshaft or main bearings (mains usually don’t wear much on these engines), it could cause a pressure imbalance, starving the new bearings of oil. I kind of see replacing rod bearings and nothing else as a last ditch effort hoping it works as the next option is a full rebuild. Don’t get me wrong, it can and does work but sometimes doesn’t,

Finally, on the check engine light, do you have a code reader? Might have a misfire. It’s not uncommon to accidentally mix up a plug wire. Or, sometimes these D1s don’t like the plug wires some manufacturers make.

I would read the code for the check engine light before taking the pan down. The problem might have nothing to do with your bearing install. In addition to an out place plug wire, you might have just knocked a wire / hose loose in the process.

Over the years, I have gotten into the habit of doing one thing at a time. For instance, do the tune up stuff, and fire it up to make sure there were no issues. Then, drop the pan and replace bearings. It just makes it a lot easier to diagnose if a problem does occur.
 
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kdigby13

Member
Sep 6, 2021
13
2
New Orleans, LA
@terryjm1 and @DarylJ really appreciate y’all’s input. I’ve got brand new bearing cap bolts to go on, but I’ve got another issue that is absolutely killing me…When I started this job I was basically able to crank the engine by hand at the belt with the plugs out and in neutral. Tonight, I went around to the 4 accessible caps, and replaced the bolts 1 by 1.

When I went to crank the engine by hand w/ my socket and breaker it was extremely extremely difficult to turn, and all I did was tighten the w/out spinning the engine….

Also, looking back to the other day, I believe the engine was getting more and more difficult to crank the further I went regardless of the bearings…

This sounds crazy, but is it possible I’m binding up the engine by tightening the crank shaft pulley bolt so much?

Is there any other way to get the engine to turn over?

Thanks so much for your help, I really appreciate it.
 

terryjm1

Well-known member
Jan 23, 2011
1,490
376
I assume you used engine assembly lube on the new bearings or at least some sort of lubricant? Did you check to assure the new bearings were standard size? I don’t think the crank pulley can be tightened so much it causes a restriction. When you put the new bearings in. Did you do them one at a time? If you mix up bearing caps or install them backwards they can bind. It is unlikely but not impossible bearing shell can be misaligned or installed in the wrong direction.

If you have a bearing shell in a bind when you remove the cap and inspect it you should see damage on the bearings after running it, even a short period of time.
 

kdigby13

Member
Sep 6, 2021
13
2
New Orleans, LA
Oh god…are the standard bearing sizes not 0.10? Doing search and seems like all bearings are either labeled as standard or 0.10. If I got the wrong size, that would explain so much…especially since I was positive I was doing everything else right…
 

terryjm1

Well-known member
Jan 23, 2011
1,490
376
.010 is oversized You need standard. If you put .010 in you may have damaged the crankshaft. You should be able to tell by looking at it. It should be very smooth. Damage should be very obvious on the bearing shells.


By the way, why did you decide change the bearings?
 

kdigby13

Member
Sep 6, 2021
13
2
New Orleans, LA
Thanks @terryjm1 . I've owned nothing but 90's 4x4's and taking them apart and repairing along the way. I know just enough to be resourceful most the time but dangerous other times....

I started this venture because the engine was developing a small tapping. When starting the engine, it sounds fine/normal, but when the engine starts getting close to operational temp, a small tapping is audible. Also, the engine seems to be running a little hot too. I assumed it was the rod bearings, but brought it to few Land Rover specialty shops here in Dallas to get second opinion. They both felt it was the bearings as well. Unfortunately neither one of these shops wanted to do the repairs though.

Because I wanted to avoid driving on it longer than needed to prevent any damage but also to check that theory, I decided to replace the bearings. Checked the oil pressure first and it was good. When I took them off, they were pretty worn down, but not spun, and the crank was and still is smooth as a mirror.

New standard bearings on the way...

Really do appreciate your help. Have a great day.
 

terryjm1

Well-known member
Jan 23, 2011
1,490
376
“New standard bearings on the way...”

To make extra sure, look at the back of the old bearing shells for “STD” to confirm. Unless the engine was previously rebuilt and needed the crankshaft reground, STD is what should be there, Otherwise, it would be .010, .020 and in less common rebuilds, 030 and .040.

However, the lower ends usually hold up very well. I recently took a 4.6 crankshaft to the machine shop to have it checked. It was still well within standard spec with over 100,000 miles and removed from a very poorly maintained engine (loaded with sludge). I had them polish the journals and that is all. The connecting rods were all in perfect shape as well.

Tapping is usually lifters (and related valve train noise) and sometimes slipped liners. Slipped liners are extremely uncommon on a 4.0 and almost unheard of in earlier versions, such as a 3.5. It is much more common in a 4.6. Most Rover V8s - 3.5, 3.9, 4.0, 4.2, and 4.6 almost always develop lifter tapping when they get miles on them. My TR8 with a 30,000 mile 3.5 has moderate tapping. It is a common trait of all engines of that basic design, including the GM 215 V8 and all similar variants including the Rover V8. Im not the least bit worried about my TR8 as oil pressure is great and it runs fantastic. I also have a 96 D1 with a 27,000 mile engine that if I really try hard to hear, there is a very faint lifter tap starting to develop. I have another 96 D1 with 130,000 miles on the engine that has just a bit louder tapping but also quite mild. Alternatively, I have a recently rebuilt (previous owner) 4.6 that I cannot hear any tapping at all but has the lowest oil pressure of all of them. I suspect the oil pump casing is well worn.

Again, lower ends generally hold up very well (aside from slipped liners on some, mostly 4.6s). I would say most of us just live with the tapping. A new cam, lifters, and valve job / resurface often is all that is needed to make it go away and restore lost performance. Camshafts due tend to wear well in advance of the rest of the engine. More than likely if you had a rod tapping you would also have poor oil pressure.

In my opinion, some shops will blame the lower end for tapping noises and then not want to do the repair because just changing rod bearings often doesn’t solve the problem and is an indicator the rest of the engine is on its last legs. No shop wants to charge hundreds (at least) of dollars and give you back a vehicle that isn’t really repaired and could cause angst with the customer.

Some will argue that when you have lifter tapping it really needs to be addressed. However, I have never taken one apart specifically to address that and never had a negative consequence such as a lifter completely failing or cause other problems than noise.
 
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p m

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Apr 19, 2004
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La Jolla, CA
www.3rj.org
I checked the rod bearing journals on my old 96 D1 with 250kmi - every bearing shell showed brass, yet every journal merited the use of standard-size bearings. The original camshaft lasted well into 280kmi.
 

ERover82

Well-known member
Nov 26, 2011
3,919
458
Darien Gap
Before I knew the bolts are single-use, I have reused them. No adverse effects in ~30-40kmi afterwards.

Not you, Mr. 010 over. Would have needed to have the crank ground to get all the smeared babbitt off. That's if something didn't go boom first.
 
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