Rough Idle When Cold

J

jhawk

Well-known member
Dec 19, 2009
191
0
Phoenix
My LR3 will idle rough until it warms up. I rarely get a code, but when I do it's multiple misfires in the first 1,000 rev. and occasionally misfire in cylinder 1.

I've replaced plugs, coils, ECT sensor, PCV, cleaned the TB and MAF, fuel injector cleaner, checked for vacuum leaks.

Anyone else have and solved this issue?

Thanks,
Jim
 
Colin hughes

Colin hughes

Well-known member
May 4, 2004
265
2
Cannington, Ontario
My check engine light has come on and off all winter. Not really running rough but you can feel it's just not idling properly through the slight vibrations on the pedal. It does get better as it warms up. My codes showed misfires and a Cat system efficiency below threshold (P0420-00). My mechanic told me that LR3's really don't like the additives put in fuel for cold winters nor the ethanol and he's seen this a lot. He suggested I switch to Shell here in Canada as their premium has no ethanol. It seems to have been better but it's also warming up here to.
 
J

jhawk

Well-known member
Dec 19, 2009
191
0
Phoenix
That sounds like what mine is doing. Sometimes worse than others. Now that it's warming up a block or two of driving and it sorts itself out. It's just not right, and I suppose that bothers me.

Jim
 
jymmiejamz

jymmiejamz

Well-known member
Dec 5, 2004
6,010
362
36
Los Angeles, Ca
discostew said:
Dont you try to flush the shit out of them first Jymmie ?
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That's what we do in New York. We use Ford motorcraft flush through the Ford special tool. It works most of the time, but not always. A lot of times we have to do the flush twice. In Richmond we just replaced the injectors.
 
D

discostew

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2010
7,745
1,026
Northern Illinois
jymmiejamz said:
That's what we do in New York. We use Ford motorcraft flush through the Ford special tool. It works most of the time, but not always. A lot of times we have to do the flush twice. In Richmond we just replaced the injectors.
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I've never had to replace an injector on a 4.2 or 4.4 . I have to flush them twice sometimes . Take them out and beat on them right after I run the flush thru them. 5.0 is another story . I don't know if you noticed the price just went way up on the 5.0 injectors . They don't make any note of it in the catalog but that price is for 4 injectors .
 
seventyfive

seventyfive

Well-known member
Jan 3, 2010
4,280
100
over there
KyleT said:
5.0 is direct injected...

We used b&g hooked directly to the fuel rail.
Click to expand...

Another reason I went back to all BMW's in the garage. Of all the direct injected engines out there BMW intake valves are the easiest ones to clean. Takes about three hours.

You can get this from the dealer, about $50-$70 depending on the how the dealers price matrix is set up.
247371_x600.jpg


You can either buy the whole sandblasting set up or rent it from Bavarian autosport, I use the one at the shop for free.

My point being is, of all the manufacturers out there BMW is the only one that has addressed the dirty valves and an efficient/economical approach. VAG used to recomend a head job, until they found out the technicians were just pulling the intake manifold and using o ring picks and long stainless wire wheel bits on their drills. Now that's how VAG suggests technicians clean the valves!

I'm curious why you would run a fuel cleaner directly thru the fuel rail, when it's just squirting the Pistons and not the intake valves? I can understand it cleaning the ethanol varnish, from the injectors....but what happens when you start having drive ability issues once the valves are coked up? I've never looked, what does rover suggest when the valves get coked up?
 
D

discostew

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2010
7,745
1,026
Northern Illinois
seventyfive said:
Another reason I went back to all BMW's in the garage. Of all the direct injected engines out there BMW intake valves are the easiest ones to clean. Takes about three hours.

You can get this from the dealer, about $50-$70 depending on the how the dealers price matrix is set up.
247371_x600.jpg


You can either buy the whole sandblasting set up or rent it from Bavarian autosport, I use the one at the shop for free.

My point being is, of all the manufacturers out there BMW is the only one that has addressed the dirty valves and an efficient/economical approach. VAG used to recomend a head job, until they found out the technicians were just pulling the intake manifold and using o ring picks and long stainless wire wheel bits on their drills. Now that's how VAG suggests technicians clean the valves!

I'm curious why you would run a fuel cleaner directly thru the fuel rail, when it's just squirting the Pistons and not the intake valves? I can understand it cleaning the ethanol varnish, from the injectors....but what happens when you start having drive ability issues once the valves are coked up? I've never looked, what does rover suggest when the valves get coked up?
Click to expand...



Right now we use BG products . We run the BG Induction System Cleaner sprayed right into the fresh air inlet and put the BG 44K in the tank . I don't run anything thru the fuel rail because I'm not sure what its going to do to the high pressure pumps . I know there is or was talk about running the crap thru the rail to clean out the injectors internally , but as of yet they have not given the green light on that . In my humble opinion most of the cleaning products out there are just Panther Piss .
 
jymmiejamz

jymmiejamz

Well-known member
Dec 5, 2004
6,010
362
36
Los Angeles, Ca
jhawk said:
What's your take on the OTC set-up to clean the injectors on the truck? I'd rather do it myself if I can end up with the tools when I'm done. Heck, is there anything worth putting in the tank?
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Got a link to it? We've had really good success with flushing the injectors through the fuel rail.
 
jafir

jafir

Well-known member
May 4, 2011
1,628
0
Northwest Arkansas
jhawk said:
What's your take on the OTC set-up to clean the injectors on the truck? I'd rather do it myself if I can end up with the tools when I'm done. Heck, is there anything worth putting in the tank?
Click to expand...

The OTC setup http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002SR60W is very similar to the BG, but much more cheaply built. It also it missing an o-ring on the lid, so you're likely to make a mess. You can get an extra o-ring that is used for sealing the bottom of the tank, and use it on the lid. Also, you'll probably want to buy the expensive OTC master fuel injection kit to get all of the adapters you need. The tank comes with none. (they look like the harbor freight stuff, but they aren't the same... I tried.)

One plus of buying the BG tank instead is that even though it costs quite a bit more, a BG dealer will sell you just the fitting you need, sometimes they will even through it in for free.
 
jafir

jafir

Well-known member
May 4, 2011
1,628
0
Northwest Arkansas
Another option would be to remove the injectors and have them cleaned off the vehicle. I have a shop in town that charges $18 each or something like that, and they check them for bleeding off and also for matched flow rate after cleaning them. They usually coming with new o-rings and screens if they have the correct parts available.
 
D

discostew

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2010
7,745
1,026
Northern Illinois
If you have any pressurized cleaning canister you could run any of the panther piss they sell. I know BG works because I usually flush injectors to get fuel trim out of the lean side . So you can see that its moved in the right direction and need to do it again , or if your done by looking at fuel trim after a test drive . Cheaper and might be better is those small bottles of GM Top Engine Cleaner . Two bottles of that and fill the canister the rest of the way with gasoline . That works good and that's how strong GM wants it mixed .
 
jymmiejamz

jymmiejamz

Well-known member
Dec 5, 2004
6,010
362
36
Los Angeles, Ca
rover4x4 said:
Why is there so much trouble with the injectors and valves? low quality fuel? Pussy foot drivers?
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I haven't seen any problems with valves, just injectors. Land Rover says it is the poor quality fuel in the US. From what I understand other markets don't have the same issues.
 
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