Transmission Rip Off (04' LR Disco 2)

[jdioguardi]

I was one of unfortunate victims of bad mechanic advice who misdiagnosed my "chirp" sound and my christmas vacay ended in an explosion-sounding experience, a missing front DS and a huge hole in my transmission.

After spending over $1,000 to have it towed from Utah back to Vegas, I ordered a tranny from a trustworthy source from this forum, and had a transmission shop here in Las Vegas install it for $500. They guarantee the work (said "I guarantee it wont fall out") but don't guarantee the tranny I ordered, and said if it doesnt work, they'll charge another $500 to put another in.

So after a few weeks without my car, I got it back yesterday. All seemed pretty good except when I put it in park, it would roll then click, roll then click again, and then catch and stop.

Usually my old tranny would roll an inch or so after putting it in park and letting off the brake, but this is FOR SURE not normal. I've showed a few people and every time I show them it gets worse and I'm not sure now if it would even stop or just keep clicking and rolling.

The other thing I've noticed is that on a steeper incline if I'm going up a hill and stop, then pull my foot off the brake while still in drive, I'll roll backwards as if I'm in Neutral. Is that normal?

Are these possible installation problems or is this a problem with the new/used transmission?



JUST A LITTLE MORE ABOUT THE TRANSMISSION SHOP

I went in there and they said 500 to swap the transmissions, so I obviously was excited. They said I had to prepay, so when the tranny arrived to their shop, I went down there and paid the 500, then he said it'll be 40 more for the fluid. Sounded shady that he didnt mention that before, but I said okay and paid the 40. Is it normal for a shop to not mention this added fee that they clearly KNEW it would be required? Why would he say 500 and not 540?

Then I got a call an hour later saying that the new tranny had a broken piece (one of the bolt holes that bolts onto the transfer case was broken off) but that I was in luck, they had another one there that they could use and that it would only cost me another 50 bucks to make the swap.

Finally I pick up my car paying 100 more than I'd originally thought I was going to. Before I left I asked, "This isn't going to leak, right? You put new seals and gaskets on it and everything?" He said "No, you never asked me to and I never said I would" I said, "well isn't that what is required when changing a transmission? Isn't there a gasket you have to replace or something?" He said, "No, there isn't any gaskets on it".

Now, I know that I'm a novice at mechanics, and don't claim to know my shit....but am I crazy to think that there should be some kind of gasket or seals that would need to be replaced when installing a new or used transmission? I know for a fact that there's a rear main seal that should go (I think) where the tranny connects to the engine?

Is this typical? Should it be assumed that when changing a transmission that under the normal scope of work would be the replacement of the seals? ....or is this something that a consumer/customer would have to specifically ask for?

I work at a law office and will happily take this son of a bitch to small claims court if changing seals and gaskets is under the normal "scope of work" when changing a transmission.

Also, if the Park problem is installation-related, and not part related, I'll enjoy every moment of taking this guy to court.

He had the audacity to say to me when I questioned the extra 40 dollar fluid fee, "I love how all you guys bring in your nice Land Rovers and try to save nickels and dimes" suggesting that we're just a bunch of rich guys and shouldn't care about being taken advantage of.

 

[Spike555]

No the rolling in park problem is not a install problem, set the parking brake before taking your foot off of the brake pedal.
No he would not have replaced any gaskets or seals unless you asked him to, yes it would have been a good idea to replace the front and rear seals on the trans but not required.
Sounds like a shady shop.
I hate the people who think that because it says Land Rover they think you're rich, you bought the truck used, no difference than buying a Chevy or Honda.

 

[seventyfive]

Fwiw, I'm putting a used trans in a D1 this week. When we estimate a used trans we factor in fluid, filter, pan gasket, and front pump seal. Depends on the shop, of course, but we offer absolutely no warranty on customer supplied parts. But, any decent shop should include the parts I described.
This industry is very shady and we do our best to educate the customer up front exactly what the repair envolves and why it is needed. It should never be left up to the customer to ask for additional parts or supplies, even if the customer is knowledgable. It is the shop's job to relay all the information up front...part of the job is educating the customer and be as informative as possible. Worst thing that can happen is the customer declines the work, seeks a second opinion, then returns when the other shop is not as informative.
What that shop did is like selling you an oil change then charging extra for the oil.
At the very least they could have included the fluid, filter, and seals to save face and try to keep your business.

 

[jdioguardi]

Fwiw, I'm putting a used trans in a D1 this week. When we estimate a used trans we factor in fluid, filter, pan gasket, and front pump seal. Depends on the shop, of course, but we offer absolutely no warranty on customer supplied parts. But, any decent shop should include the parts I described.
This industry is very shady and we do our best to educate the customer up front exactly what the repair envolves and why it is needed. It should never be left up to the customer to ask for additional parts or supplies, even if the customer is knowledgable. It is the shop's job to relay all the information up front...part of the job is educating the customer and be as informative as possible. Worst thing that can happen is the customer declines the work, seeks a second opinion, then returns when the other shop is not as informative.
What that shop did is like selling you an oil change then charging extra for the oil.
At the very least they could have included the fluid, filter, and seals to save face and try to keep your business.

So it IS or ISN'T their responsibility to tell me the seals should be changed? Seems you and Spike have different opinions in the matter. If either of you are shop owners, do you know legally what is required?

 

[antichrist]

My take.
The front input and rear output seals should be replaced. It just makes sense to do it as they are cheap compared to pulling the transmission again to replace when it turns out they leak. A good shop would. The filter and pan gasket also, though you don't have to pull the transmission to do it.
Are they under obligation to do that, or even suggest it? Absolutely not, unless there's some obscure clause in an auto repair law in your area.
IMO you don't have any grounds, based on what you described, to sue them, baring the above obscure clause.

 

[seventyfive]

So it IS or ISN'T their responsibility to tell me the seals should be changed? Seems you and Spike have different opinions in the matter. If either of you are shop owners, do you know legally what is required?

legally no, professionally yes.

 

[jdioguardi]

well thank you all for your takes on this. Regarding the transmission slipping and the car rolling while in park, I found out from another shop that there's a cable on the drivers side of the trans which takes about 5 min to adjust (its outside of the transmission). I adjusted it and 5 min later no rolling issue at all....not even on a steep hill.

 

[KyleT]

500 for a trans swap is a STEAL. dealer would be at least 1800 for labor plus shop supplies.

dont get the bolt holes comment though. either the flange is there or its broken, a 50 dollar part doesn't remotely describe swapping the rear output housing off the transmission... and if it came broken that is the shipper or sellers issue.

take it as a learning experience.

trans swaps suck balls IMO.

and make sure your cluster PRND321 match the shifter position. it is common to get the linkage goofed up and the xyz switch off.

 

[paxton]

I'm sorry this happened to you, and I hope it works out as well at it can at this point.

But a word of advice: This is Discoweb. Words like "vacay" do not belong here. Or anywhere else. Or in real life.

Thanks for your understanding.

 

[jafir]

500 for a trans swap is a STEAL. dealer would be at least 1800 for labor plus shop supplies.

dont get the bolt holes comment though. either the flange is there or its broken, a 50 dollar part doesn't remotely describe swapping the rear output housing off the transmission... and if it came broken that is the shipper or sellers issue.

take it as a learning experience.

trans swaps suck balls IMO.

and make sure your cluster PRND321 match the shifter position. it is common to get the linkage goofed up and the xyz switch off.

That sounds ridiculous. What's book time?

 

[KyleT]

That sounds ridiculous. What's book time?

iirc 14ish?
@$135 it adds up

 

[p m]

500 for a trans swap is a STEAL.

+1.
You need to take half of the truck apart underneath to do it - driveshafts, transfer case, exhaust, disconnect all the oil lines, etc.
Were I in this situation, I may have frowned on an added fluid charge, but the entire price is so ridiculously low.
... and, I have to say, the level of excitement in the original post is absolutely incommensurate with the 8% overcharge.

 

[jdioguardi]

I'm sorry this happened to you, and I hope it works out as well at it can at this point.

But a word of advice: This is Discoweb. Words like "vacay" do not belong here. Or anywhere else. Or in real life.

Thanks for your understanding.

Haha I think its hilarious how everyone on here calls everyone else out. Funny stuff (especially on that DiscoMike thread).

That said, I'll be sure to PM you next time before I post to make sure you approve of the words I use on here.....and hopefully pointers on how to speak in real life. Maybe I should do more research on episodes of Tool Academy and brush up on my Urban Dictionary.

I'm on here to learn about my car (to which I'm happy when people are willing to give good advice and info because frankly I'm inexperienced), not to be criticized about my abbreviations for the word vacation.

If this forum is super exclusive meant only for those who join the pissing contest of rover knowledge, maybe I should head over to Disco mike so I can be belittled by someone who sounds like a professional.

 

[ArmyRover]

Forget the Urban Dictionary, that won't help you here. Webster's is the one of choice on DiscoWeb.

That and grow thicker skin, it will serve you well around here.

 

[jdioguardi]

+1.
You need to take half of the truck apart underneath to do it - driveshafts, transfer case, exhaust, disconnect all the oil lines, etc.
Were I in this situation, I may have frowned on an added fluid charge, but the entire price is so ridiculously low.
... and, I have to say, the level of excitement in the original post is absolutely incommensurate with the 8% overcharge.

I'm not upset about the charge, I'm upset it wasn't explained to me before. I'm also upset that he didn't just tell me that it might be a good idea to change the seals, which will be xx amount.

I would've been happy to pay the extra to get the job done right, but just wish (since this was a transmission shop and assuming these are transmission specialists as their name indicates http://www.yelp.com/biz/transmission-specialists-las-vegas) he would've taken the 2 min to explain what should also be changed (filter, pan gasket, rear main seal, etc) and then leave it up to me if I wanted to pay for those or opt for a cheaper half-assed job. I plan on keeping the disco, so it only makes sense for me to want this job done once and done right.

Live and learn I guess.

 

[p m]

I neither own or run a shop, so I can't really say much. Neither I know the nuances of the initial conversation - but I guess he figured out you'd take a suggestion of changing the seals and gaskets as his intention to inflate price, and decided against it.

Speaking of learning from DiscoMike, you should try it. Your dignity will be largely intact, but the lessons might turn expensive.

 

[helievacpilot]

Haha I think its hilarious how everyone on here calls everyone else out. Funny stuff (especially on that DiscoMike thread).

That said, I'll be sure to PM you next time before I post to make sure you approve of the words I use on here.....and hopefully pointers on how to speak in real life. Maybe I should do more research on episodes of Tool Academy and brush up on my Urban Dictionary.

I'm on here to learn about my car (to which I'm happy when people are willing to give good advice and info because frankly I'm inexperienced), not to be criticized about my abbreviations for the word vacation.

If this forum is super exclusive meant only for those who join the pissing contest of rover knowledge, maybe I should head over to Disco mike so I can be belittled by someone who sounds like a professional.

No whining either. Hike up your skirt and take it like a man.

 

[jdioguardi]

No whining either. Hike up your skirt and take it like a man.

haha touche.

 

[kennith]

I wouldn't say it's normal to avoid telling someone that there will be a fluid charge, but I'll say it's common when dealing with many cars to forget an expense here and there. It's also reasonable to expect a few growing pains when dealing with the replacement of a major system.

Some have ended up skipping certain things such as seals that don't really need to be replaced because they are tired of people complaining about it and accusing them of trying to gouge people.

You should always return for a checkup and any required adjustments after running a replaced major system for a while. That's just the way it goes. Mechanics aren't magic. It's a rare occasion that a replaced part solves an issue entirely and immediately. Sometimes the part needs running in, or sometimes the mechanic forgets something.

Give them a chance.

Also, find a specialist mechanic. Find someone who deals exclusively with vehicles people find odd or exotic, regardless of whether or not that impression is warranted. Be sure you aren't dealing with someone who thinks you are a pompous ass, and don't come off as a cheap fuck, especially on your first visit.

Mechanics deal with cheap fucks all the time, and also deal with judgmental types. They don't like them. It's an industry that burns people out. Many of them genuinely want to fix a vehicle, but they've just given up. It's easy to restore their faith if you are sure to give them as good an impression as you expect them to give you.

One more thing: Yelpers are fucking annoying as hell. Use your mind and senses to get an impression of people at a shop. Ask other shops how they feel about each other; you can learn a lot about people that way. It's okay to be ignorant, but don't be an ignorant person that expects at people. I know they should just help anyway, but they are constantly bogged with people who wear them out.

It's not a job that makes millionaires. It's a job people do because, at one point in their life, they loved it. Now they are stuck with the investment whether or not daily dealings have worn their enthusiasm out.

Now, there are downright bastards in the world of automotive repair, sure enough, but most people do indeed want to help, and they love customers that are willing to roll with the punches a bit. Give them a chance, expect a few issues here and there, and you'll find you might develop a great relationship.

Remember: Odds are they trust you less than you trust them. They've been stuck countless times, and they don't want a repeat performance.

...And we'll criticize your language all we want. Words like "vaycay" are just embarrassingly stupid.

Cheers,

Kennith

 

[kennith]

I'm not suggesting you didn't end up at a shit shop, I'm just telling you how some of them feel.

Cheers,

Kennith