Using ACE as a swaybar disconnect
- Thread starter 66rover99
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I haven't actually specced out a shutoff valve yet. My thoughts were a non-directional valve, like you suggested, with the default position being closed, and electricity supplied opening the valve.
Although I'm not certain, the schematic drawings in the D2 service manual appear to show the cylinder acting only at one end.
Thanks for the link Muskyman. I was thinking of something similar but couldn't quite picture it. I imagined a centred release point of some kind. Although this looks a little lite-duty for our heavy trucks, it definitely is the right idea.
Dave
Although I'm not certain, the schematic drawings in the D2 service manual appear to show the cylinder acting only at one end.
Thanks for the link Muskyman. I was thinking of something similar but couldn't quite picture it. I imagined a centred release point of some kind. Although this looks a little lite-duty for our heavy trucks, it definitely is the right idea.
Dave
Fluid doesn't compress, but if there's any air, that would certainly be a factor. I'm hoping that once all air is worked out of the system, when the valve closes, it's all locked up. I'm still not certain of the placement of the shutoff valve above the tee. I'm inclined to think the valve should be below the tee and a separate shutoff valve to the reservoir. kid4lyf, you work with this stuff. What's your take?
Dave
Dave
66rover99 said:
How is this supposed to stop the hydraulic cylinder from moving? In this diagram the fluid is free to move from one end of the cylinder to the other.
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I think that would do it.
Another thought though: Are the ACE swaybars meant to totally lock up and flex like normal sway bars? Or are they meant to have the hydraulic system act on them to resist the body motion of the truck?
Another thought though: Are the ACE swaybars meant to totally lock up and flex like normal sway bars? Or are they meant to have the hydraulic system act on them to resist the body motion of the truck?
scottjal said:
If it's the former, why not go simpler -- instead of all the rigamarole of a reservoir and two valves, just install a connector hose with a ball valve. Closing the valve restricts fluid travel and the bar is stiff, opening the valve allows fluid to flow back and forth and the bar is soft.
If it's the latter, stop being such a nancy and install QD's. If getting dirty is a problem, drive home disconnected and wash off the truck.
scottjal said:
Sorta, the cylinder is acting like a "steering dampener" to push and pull on the body so it rolls less. Understand. So while on the road, you want it to move freely. I am still wondering if "locking" it would achieved 66's desired result.
If there were such a thing made, I'd replace the tee with a 3 way non-directional shutoff, and remove the other 2 shutoffs, thus simplifying (and reducing the cost of) the circuit.
I have no idea how the ACE swaybar would react with it totally locked up. Anyone got a couple of vice grips and want to go squeeze their ACE hoses?
From my general knowledge of swaybars, though, very little of the "work" of the swaybar comes from the side struts, rather it is the twisting of the central portion that keeps the truck from swaying, so I'd think locking the ACE cylinder shouldn't affect the anti-swaying operation. However, only time will tell how well the ACE cylinder will hold up to being hydraulically locked up.
I guess I'll be visiting the local farm hydraulic supply house soon...
Dave
I have no idea how the ACE swaybar would react with it totally locked up. Anyone got a couple of vice grips and want to go squeeze their ACE hoses?
From my general knowledge of swaybars, though, very little of the "work" of the swaybar comes from the side struts, rather it is the twisting of the central portion that keeps the truck from swaying, so I'd think locking the ACE cylinder shouldn't affect the anti-swaying operation. However, only time will tell how well the ACE cylinder will hold up to being hydraulically locked up.
I guess I'll be visiting the local farm hydraulic supply house soon...
Dave
this really is over building a simple device...but if it works, would make for a interesting mod, not a hydraulic 'spert so if the cylinder will work is a question for somebody who is...I have 2 long travel sways built, one for my mine and ChicagoDon's coilover set-up. They bolt up to the factory frame mounts and travel the full length of the suspension drop (22 inches) with no binding...
Mongo said:
and I have to say...if they dont limit travel they dont need to be disconnected so this is by far a better simpler way to go
OK, so looking at long travel, a few questions...
1. It would seem to me the logic of long travel would be that the longer "levers" make it easier to twist/flex the bar to a much higher degree of articulation. Therefore wouldn't that be similar to just putting a smaller diameter sway bar on instead of the stock one?
2. Wouldn't a long travel bar therefore be less effective on-road than the stock bar?
3. My goal is articulation, not just travel. I can understand a long travel bar allowing further up-down movement, and weakening the swaybar's overall flex rate, but it still isn't going to allow flex nearly as well as having no swaybar connected at all, is it?
I'm not stuck on the hydraulic/ACE idea, I'm just trying to get my head around what's better about long travel swaybars. Got any links for some technical reading?
Thanks for all the input, this thread is really becoming interesting.
Dave
1. It would seem to me the logic of long travel would be that the longer "levers" make it easier to twist/flex the bar to a much higher degree of articulation. Therefore wouldn't that be similar to just putting a smaller diameter sway bar on instead of the stock one?
2. Wouldn't a long travel bar therefore be less effective on-road than the stock bar?
3. My goal is articulation, not just travel. I can understand a long travel bar allowing further up-down movement, and weakening the swaybar's overall flex rate, but it still isn't going to allow flex nearly as well as having no swaybar connected at all, is it?
I'm not stuck on the hydraulic/ACE idea, I'm just trying to get my head around what's better about long travel swaybars. Got any links for some technical reading?
Thanks for all the input, this thread is really becoming interesting.
Dave
Velocewest said:
When I am tired of being a nancy or a sally, I go for a drive in my "real" truck - a 66 Series IIa. A lot of folks have called me girly names just for owning a Discovery, but names don't hurt me
I still think it would be sweet to hit a button on the dash, or sweeter yet to hook up the button direct to the high-low range linkage... OK, now I'm going a bit too far.
Dave
lot's trial and error, while waiting for parts I tested different swaybar spring rates on the stock suspension (LR Radius arms, 3" RTE springs and 12" 360/80 vavling, charged with 275lbs of nitrogen,Blingstiens) so here's real world answers (seeing how that's the joke these day's...)...
1. It would seem to me the logic of long travel would be that the longer "levers" make it easier to twist/flex the bar to a much higher degree of articulation. Therefore wouldn't that be similar to just putting a smaller diameter sway bar on instead of the stock one?
>The ones I made have a 1.25 .188 wall sway bars. Bigger than stock. The control arms are actually shorter than stock because we moved the axle forward one inch. The "long travel" aspect is the arm that connects the control arm to the axle. I can adjust the amount of flex by changing the spring rate of the sway bar. It's not dialed in yet, but I can get different spring rate depending on the diameter of the tube used. I can even do solid tube, if need be.
2. Wouldn't a long travel bar therefore be less effective on-road than the stock bar?
> can be more effective, once again depending on the spring rate of the sway bar. It won't be a "limiting factor' just a "control factor"
3. My goal is articulation, not just travel. I can understand a long travel bar allowing further up-down movement, and weakening the swaybar's overall flex rate, but it still isn't going to allow flex nearly as well as having no swaybar connected at all.
>The stock LR radius arm will bind before the swaybar stops articulation. I tested different sway bar spring rates on the stock setup. With the springs removed, the radius arm binded at the axle mount before the swabar limited travel. With the springs installed, axle movement was limited by the spring before either the radius arm binded up or the swaybar limited travel.
lot's of experimenting going on with the coilover set-up...
1. It would seem to me the logic of long travel would be that the longer "levers" make it easier to twist/flex the bar to a much higher degree of articulation. Therefore wouldn't that be similar to just putting a smaller diameter sway bar on instead of the stock one?
>The ones I made have a 1.25 .188 wall sway bars. Bigger than stock. The control arms are actually shorter than stock because we moved the axle forward one inch. The "long travel" aspect is the arm that connects the control arm to the axle. I can adjust the amount of flex by changing the spring rate of the sway bar. It's not dialed in yet, but I can get different spring rate depending on the diameter of the tube used. I can even do solid tube, if need be.
2. Wouldn't a long travel bar therefore be less effective on-road than the stock bar?
> can be more effective, once again depending on the spring rate of the sway bar. It won't be a "limiting factor' just a "control factor"
3. My goal is articulation, not just travel. I can understand a long travel bar allowing further up-down movement, and weakening the swaybar's overall flex rate, but it still isn't going to allow flex nearly as well as having no swaybar connected at all.
>The stock LR radius arm will bind before the swaybar stops articulation. I tested different sway bar spring rates on the stock setup. With the springs removed, the radius arm binded at the axle mount before the swabar limited travel. With the springs installed, axle movement was limited by the spring before either the radius arm binded up or the swaybar limited travel.
lot's of experimenting going on with the coilover set-up...