Watts Link

[seventyfive]

frank,
You forgot the spray paint. A good can of aersol costs about $110.

Seriously, let's pretend for a minute not everyone has access to the tools people like you and I have access to. Let's say somebody offers a kit so all that is needed is a shop to weld on the frame and axle mounts.
If the parts are only $90 then why is the ruff stuff kit $175???? Makes me feel better knowing we only mark up redline oil $3 over cost at the shop.

 

[seventyfive]

P.s. I was being sarcastic about the rover specific price. But when you figure for every probably 50 JKs sitting on 35's to probably 1 rover the guys making this stuff need to price accordingly to put food on their tables. Or make stuff for other brands but the. They lose the rover street cred��

 

[K-rover]

Wonder if it will be prices competitively with what RuffStuff is offering?

It will probably cost 3 times as much as it should.

 

[JustAddMtns]

I want to do this. Maybe Mike will do it for me at URE...I can sit in a camp chair, have a few beers with Ken and watch. I would pay $175 for that.

 

[DiscoPhoto]

If it is designed specifically for a rover price should be overlooked. If rte does make one I'm sure the panhard will be hockey sticked so it is flat and as long as possible.

For the guys that don't know much about suspension you have to keep in mind a panhard can look like an S as long as it keeps the axle as centered as possible in relation to the body.

Links can be bent as well.

Zack,
Since you already have a panhard it would be very easy to do a 3 link down the driver side. I might still have all the shit needed for a three link at the shop. If I still have it you can have it.

That'd be great Mike, I've been wanting to do it for a while so let me know if you find that material....thanks

 

[dbeard]

Would be interested in hearing what RTE had up their sleeve for a rear panhard rod setup.

 

[helievacpilot]

Would be interested in hearing what RTE had up their sleeve for a rear panhard rod setup.

Just shot an e-mail to them and asked the same question. Ryan replied and said that they developed a weld-on kit, but decided not to sell it for liability reasons. Fucking lawyers! The up-side is that they are working on a true bolt-on kit to be available on the 20th. Price will be 345.00. Same as their watts kit. No brainer for me. Pan-hard, here I come!
And yes, I know, the parts could be sourced for half that, but for a "bolt-on" kit, I'll pay up.

 

[dbeard]

Just shot an e-mail to them and asked the same question. Ryan replied and said that they developed a weld-on kit, but decided not to sell it for liability reasons. Fucking lawyers! The up-side is that they are working on a true bolt-on kit to be available on the 20th. Price will be 345.00. Same as their watts kit. No brainer for me. Pan-hard, here I come!
And yes, I know, the parts could be sourced for half that, but for a "bolt-on" kit, I'll pay up.

Well this is exciting. Sure would have loved to have this before the Robesonia Trials event, but I guess I'll just click and clunk my way through the courses one last time.

 

[fishEH]

Just shot an e-mail to them and asked the same question. Ryan replied and said that they developed a weld-on kit, but decided not to sell it for liability reasons. Fucking lawyers! The up-side is that they are working on a true bolt-on kit to be available on the 20th. Price will be 345.00. Same as their watts kit. No brainer for me. Pan-hard, here I come!
And yes, I know, the parts could be sourced for half that, but for a "bolt-on" kit, I'll pay up.

Interesting. They'll cut and weld trailing and radius arms, make non-crumple bumpers, front panhard rods and all other manner of bolt and weld-on goodies. Yet they draw the line at selling you a bunch parts that you need to weld on yourself??
Weird.

 

[Buddy]

Interesting. They'll cut and weld trailing and radius arms, make non-crumple bumpers, front panhard rods and all other manner of bolt and weld-on goodies. Yet they draw the line at selling you a bunch parts that you need to weld on yourself??
Weird.

I'd be more interested to know what they will be bolting things to. There is not much under there to bolt to. I guess they could bolt one site to the frame and the other to the radius arm mounts. I'd still be very curious how that would work.

 

[seventyfive]

Interesting. They'll cut and weld trailing and radius arms, make non-crumple bumpers, front panhard rods and all other manner of bolt and weld-on goodies. Yet they draw the line at selling you a bunch parts that you need to weld on yourself??
Weird.

look at it this way.

if you are bolting on aftermarket parts not intended for highway use, they are not permanent suspension modifications which opens you up to civil lawsuits after the accident. your insurance company may not cover you and may make you responsible for any liability. and todays lawyers will go after everyone and anyone....meaning they will go after rte for making it, the shop who installed it, etc etc etc....


plus if it's bolted on it gives you a chance to remove that shit and bolt on your stock stuff before the bambalance po-po and insurance adjuster shows up.

 

[DiscoPhoto]

I can't even begin to understand how you could bolt on a panhard rod on the rear, there's nowhere to mount the axle side and the upper watts linkage isn't strong enough.

 

[Mongo]

I can't even begin to understand how you could bolt on a panhard rod on the rear, there's nowhere to mount the axle side and the upper watts linkage isn't strong enough.

No shit…I'd be very leery of a bolt on pan hard, considering if it ever lets go you will seriously not only kill a bus load of handicapped kids and nun's, but you'll be barrel rollin down the highway. If they are worried about being liable with a weld-on kit, this is a 1000 times more likely to fail

 

[K-rover]

I can't even begin to understand how you could bolt on a panhard rod on the rear, there's nowhere to mount the axle side and the upper watts linkage isn't strong enough.

I was thinking the same thing.. The weld on kit from Ruffstuff seems like a no brainer!

 

[DiscoPhoto]

Just got an email their stuff is 20% off right now too, so, for about $155 shipped it'd be near impossible to beat.

 

[fishEH]

look at it this way.

if you are bolting on aftermarket parts not intended for highway use, they are not permanent suspension modifications which opens you up to civil lawsuits after the accident. your insurance company may not cover you and may make you responsible for any liability. and todays lawyers will go after everyone and anyone....meaning they will go after rte for making it, the shop who installed it, etc etc etc....


plus if it's bolted on it gives you a chance to remove that shit and bolt on your stock stuff before the bambalance po-po and insurance adjuster shows up.

Yeah I get that some lawyer could probably make a case for just about anything. My question is how is this panhard rod kit different from any of their other modified components? I would think there's actually less possible liability with selling a collection of parts than there is with cut and welded trailing and radius arms. How does RuffStuff and many other companies manage to sell DIY weld on kits without the safety police and ambulance chasers shutting them down?

In other words I'm not buying their "my lawyer told me not to" excuse because this component is just another part of their whole business model. Its more likely they realized a lot of D2 guys won't be welding shit and they might not sell a lot of weld on kits, so they're pursuing a bolt on deal that any joker with some wrenches could install. That at least I understand.
Yes, I'm being pessimistic. :ack:

Frank, I still owe you that phone call. Been busy as shit, well except right now.

 

[Mongo]

Any shop fabbing up anything has liability issues...I have a million dollar stupid person clause if you kill a bus load of nuns from anything I manufacter regardless of use...as Im sure most of the hundreds of shops making everything from tube adapters to complete suspensions have out there does, if not they plain fucking stupid.

Stating that a bolt on kit lessen said liability or lessen responsibility in a law suit means they need a better lawyer on retainer...

Call me tomorrow Brett...

 

[seventyfive]

Frank,
You seem tense lately. Everything okay?

Brett,
We have a line that must be signed on invoices that indemnifies the shop from any liability if we install aftermarket parts and the operator operates their vehicle on public road ways. We no longer remove ANY federally mandated emission components unless doing a diesel swap. Can somebody still sue the shop? Of course. Will they win? No. All shops usually have that on the bottom of invoices.

If you wanted to pick pepper out of fly shit I can only assume that if you are selling 'fabrication' parts you are not implying they are vehicle specific and/or they are selling parts specifically designed to alter vehicle specific suspension, steering, etc.

Personally I could give a fuck less. I assume the responsibility for myself and what I'm driving. I know the ramifications, of the potential legal liability, I would face if I ever get in an accident on public/taxpayers roads. Acountability is the failure of responsibility. My truck may not be responsible in 'responsible' peoples opinions but that doesn't mean I have to operate the truck, on public/taxpayers roads in an irresponsible manner.

Back on topic. A bolt on panhard sounds dangerous. I can only assume a bolt on panhard would be mounted with the radius arm hardware and possibly drilling thru holes on the frame, interested in seeing the actual product though. Personally I would never bolt on a panhard but to each their own. More hardware just means more shit that can possibly break in the middle of nowhere.

 

[seventyfive]

So I don't sound like somebody that is shitting on something without seeing it or actually had experience using it...when I say a bolt on panhard sounds dangerous I mean being stuck in the middle of nowhere because something as vital as keeping my axle centered under my truck failed.

Maybe I can coax Justin to post, it would be nice to see his input on the bolt on four link Robbie designed then stole, regarding any issues encountered with a bolt on solution.

 

[fishEH]

Mike, you're missing my point. My point is why are they drawing the line at a DIY panhard kit? They chop and weld radius arms, a-arm spacer, and so on. Hell, just about everything they sell alters the suspension in some way.

So, tell me how their DIY panhard kit would be more of a liability than cranked radius arms?
How would it be a greater liability than their drilled swivel balls?
Do you see what I'm getting at??