What did I get myself into? Happy Thoughts

Rob371

Well-known member
Nov 29, 2016
150
1
Charlevoix, Michigan
So we got this thing couple weeks ago, 2004 D2. Replaced crank sensor within the first week. It's a clean and straight car, chassis is clean, not rotted as I see is an apparent issue from reading posts here. Hasn't been used for off-road driving.

This morning my wife had the M and S lights flashing simultaneously. Manual says shut down and restart. Shut down, restart, lights are off. Great news.

I ran into a guy at the gas station, he was driving an 04 D2, I asked him about it. Had around 150k on it. Says it's been great, trouble free.

I'm reading all the issues that everyone is posting here and thinking what-the-eff did I buy.

I mean, obviously we come here to help each other figure shit out and learn stuff, look for answers and support and so on.

I'm starting to feel some buyers remorse and getting ready to throw a sign in it before shit hits the fan.

Has anyone had a good experience?
 

Tugela

Well-known member
May 21, 2007
4,764
564
Seattle
I see you also own a Toyota. If you haven't already, I suggest you adjust your expectations for Land Rover ownership. A 12-year old Discovery is not going to be the same experience. Prepare to spend some time and money keeping your Disco running. If you are patient, halfway competent mechanically, and enjoy working on vehicles, then it will be a good relationship. There are tons of resources here and smartasses willing to help you solve your problems. There is nothing new that can happen to your Disco that hasn't been fixed before and you can learn about it all here. If your time and money are better spent on other pursuits (as my wife would insist) then maybe an aging Disco is not the best choice for you.

It's a great truck for northern Michigan. Give it a little more time before making a decision. You may find you love driving it, and ultimately that's what it's all about. Investing in a few basic tools (including a diagnostic computer you can plug into the OBD port to read and clear error codes that will invariably light up your dash like a Christmas tree - there are good recommendations for the 2004 Discovery on this site) will help you understand your Disco better.
 

kade

Well-known member
Oct 15, 2013
235
7
Upstate, SC
I had those lights come on. I read that it was a power/battery issue. Ended up being my alternator was going out.
 

kcabpilot

Well-known member
Mar 26, 2006
334
1
California
You know it's hard to say, it's a 13 year old truck and yes, eventually something is going to come up that you can't fix by shutting down and restarting. So it depends on if you are willing to work with it. I bought my '01 ten years ago and I've put over 100,000 miles both on and off road but I'm not going to tell you that all I did was oil changes. If you are going to keep this thing you are going to have to commit, you have to WANT to keep it. No wishy-washy attitude thinking about slapping a for sale sign on it because a couple of warning lights flashed or because of what you've read on the internet. The truck is going to sense that and the one thing you don't want to have as a Disco owner is bad vehicular karma ;)

BTW: if it makes you feel any better I paid $18k for mine when it was six years old
 

Shiftonthefly1

Well-known member
Aug 11, 2014
433
15
Las Vegas
You came here asking for common problems and fixes. So you got a list of common problems and fixes. If you would asked for praise of the trucks and all the good things about them you would've gotten a list of praise And good things. It's important to remember that all the form reading you do is only people for the most part having a bad experience. There are lots of people not on this forum driving perfectly functional perfectly working trucks.


As any Land Rover owner will tell you sometimes ownership is a bit finicky. If you can't wrap your head around constant attention and back of your mind future maintenance then I say sell it and rock your Toyota.

I personally love my truck. I've owned a dozen of them in the past few years. With some preventative maintenance they are great reliable vehicles. But they will always have some sort of minor glitch that needs attention. I'd much rather drive this truck then anything else. I tried to build a CJ7 an XJ, Fj60 Scout 2 Blazers Broncos etc. I liked none of the off-road capabilities of those trucks compared to the land Rover. It's definitely an ownership of love and patience. If you don't have that love and patience then I would bail out ASAP
 

Rob371

Well-known member
Nov 29, 2016
150
1
Charlevoix, Michigan
So the M an S lights came on again. Restart and they are off. Owners manual says electrical issue, take to dealer. I guess I'll be downloading that service manual here pretty quick. Any other suggestions on that? Thinking back, the owner said it was a new battery and he had a battery warrantied recently also. Maybe a low voltage issue? This thing cranks over like there's no tomorrow. Even when I was diagnosing the crank sensor it never got to a point where it needed a charge or a jump, and I cranked it a lot. I know I can't rule out low voltage elsewhere. I'm not afraid to work on it, but the plan was my wife is driving it through the winter. I've gotta have the confidence that she's not going to be stranded somewhere. For the short term I will do what is necessary.

So, aside from suggested voltage issues, does anybody have expertise on the Manual and Sport lights flashing simultaneously?
 

Rob371

Well-known member
Nov 29, 2016
150
1
Charlevoix, Michigan
Well, I found this. Problem is these things always occur when my wife is driving it. She doesn't catch on to the exact circumstances in which they occur. Sounds like I should start with cleaning the battery terminals, maybe disconnect the switch/sensor/PRNDL switch or whatever the rover term is on the tranny and have a peak at the connections.

Here is a breifing on how the trans works..

Cut and pasted.


When the ignition is switched on, a bulb check is performed on the transmission temperature warning lamp and the mode warning lamps by the instrument pack and the EAT ECU respectively. The warning lamps are illuminated for approximately 3 seconds and then extinguished.
The gear position switch outputs are monitored by the BCU and the EAT ECU. The BCU outputs gear position signals to illuminate the position indicators each side of the gear selector lever and on the odometer LCD in the instrument pack.
In D, 3, 2, and 1, the EAT ECU outputs control signals to the gearbox to select the required gear.
In D, all forward gears are available for selection by the EAT ECU. In 3, 2 and 1, a corresponding limit is imposed on the highest gear available for selection. When R is selected, reverse gear only engages if the vehicle is stationary or moving at 5 mph (8 km/h) or less. When R is deselected, reverse gear only disengages if the vehicle is moving at 4 mph (6 km/h) or less.

Selector lever interlock (where fitted)
The interlock solenoid on the selector lever is de-energized unless the foot brake is applied while the ignition is on. While de-energized, the interlock solenoid allows the selector lever to move through the range unless P is selected. On entering the P position, the interlock solenoid engages a latch, which locks the selector lever. When the ignition is on and the foot brake is applied, the BCU energizes the interlock solenoid, which disengages the latch and allows the selector lever to be moved out of P.

Economy, sport and manual modes
During the power-up procedure after the ignition is switched on, the EAT ECU defaults to an economy mode. Pressing the mode switch causes the EAT ECU to change between the economy mode and the sport or the manual mode, depending on the range selected on the transfer box:


If the transfer box is in high range, the EAT ECU changes to the sport mode and illuminates the sport mode warning lamp in the instrument pack. In the sport mode the gearbox is more responsive to accelerator pedal movement. Downshifts occur earlier and upshifts occur later.
If the transfer box is in low range, the EAT ECU changes to the manual mode and illuminates the manual mode warning lamp in the instrument pack. Kickdown is disabled and the EAT ECU maintains the gearbox in the gear selected on the selector lever (D = 4th gear) to give improved off road performance. Downshifts occur only to prevent the engine stalling. From a standing start, the vehicle pulls away in 1st gear and, if a higher gear is selected, upshifts almost immediately to the selected gear (shifts of more than one gear can occur). After a second press of the mode switch the EAT ECU reverts to the economy mode, for the range selected on the transfer box, and extinguishes the related mode warning lamp in the instrument pack.
Shift control
To provide the different driving characteristics for each mode of operation, the EAT ECU incorporates different shift maps of throttle position/engine speed. Base shift points are derived from the appropriate shift map. When a shift is required, the EAT ECU sends a request to the ECM for a reduction in engine torque, in order to produce a smoother shift. The percentage of torque reduction requested varies according to the operating conditions at the time of the request. When the EAT ECU receives confirmation of the torque reduction from the ECM, it then signals the shift solenoid valves in the gearbox to produce the shift. To further improve shift quality, the EAT ECU also signals the pressure regulating solenoid valve to modulate the hydraulic pressure and so control the rate of engagement and disengagement of the brake clutches.
With time, the components in a gearbox wear and the duration of the gear shifts tends to increase, which has an adverse effect on the brake clutches. To counteract this, the EAT ECU applies a pressure adaptation to each shift. To calculate the adaptations, the EAT ECU monitors the pressure modulation used, and time taken, for each shift. If a subsequent shift of the same type, in terms of throttle position and engine speed, has a longer duration, the EAT ECU stores an adaptation for that type of shift in a volatile memory. The adaptation is then included in future pressure calculations for that type of shift, to restore shift duration to the nominal.

Kickdown
The EAT ECU monitors the input of the throttle position sensor to determine when kickdown is required. When it detects a kickdown situation, the EAT ECU immediately initiates a down shift provided the target gear will not cause the engine speed limit to be exceeded.

Torque converter lock-up
The EAT ECU energizes the lock-up solenoid valve to engage the lock-up clutch. Lock-up clutch operation is dependent on throttle position, engine speed, operating mode and the range selected on the transfer box.

High range
Unique lock-up maps, similar to the shift maps, are incorporated in the economy and sport modes for all forward gears. Engagement and disengagement of the lock-up clutch is dependent on throttle position and engine speed.

Low range
To enhance off road control, particularly when maneuvering at low speeds, torque converter lock-up does not occur when there is any degree of throttle opening. When the throttle is closed about a preset engine speed, the lock-up clutch engages to provide maximum engine braking.

Increased load/reduced torque compensation
To aid performance and driveability in the high range economy mode, the EAT ECU has three adaptive shift and lock up maps. These maps delay upshifts and torque converter lock-up similar to the sport mode if the inputs from the engine indicate:


A sustained high load on the engine, such as occurs when the vehicle is ascending a steep gradient or towing a trailer.
A lower than normal engine torque, such as occurs at altitude or high ambient temperatures. The EAT ECU monitors the engine inputs and selects the most appropriate adaptive map for the prevailing conditions.
Diagnostics
While the ignition is on, the EAT ECU diagnoses the system for faults. The extent of the diagnostic capability at any particular time depends on the prevailing operating conditions, e.g. it is not possible to check torque converter lock up while the vehicle is stationary, or to check for a short circuit to earth if the circuit concerned is already at a low potential.
If a fault is detected, the EAT ECU immediately stores a fault code and the values of three operating parameters associated with the fault. Depending on the fault, there are four possible effects:


The fault has little effect on gearbox operation or vehicle emissions. The driver will probably not notice any change and the warning lamps remain extinguished.
The fault has little effect on gearbox operation but may effect vehicle emissions. On NAS vehicles, if the fault is detected on a second consecutive drive cycle, the MIL illuminates.
All gears are available but kickdown does not function. The sport and manual warning lamps flash. The MIL remains extinguished.
Limp home mode is selected and vehicle performance is greatly reduced. The sport and manual warning lamps flash. In all markets, if the fault is detected on a second consecutive drive cycle, the MIL illuminates. After the detection of a fault, the effects remain active for the remainder of the drive cycle. In subsequent drive cycles, as soon as the EAT ECU diagnoses the fault is no longer present, it resumes normal control of the gearbox. The conditions required to diagnose that the fault is no longer present depend on the fault. Some faults require the engine to be started, others require only that the ignition is switched on.
After a fault has not recurred for forty warm-up cycles, the fault is deleted from the EAT ECU memory. Only five different faults can be stored in the memory at any one time. If a further fault occurs, the fault with the lowest priority will be replaced by the new fault.

Mechanical limp home
In the mechanical limp home mode, gear engagement is controlled by the manual valve. The gearbox is fixed in 4th gear if the fault occurs while the vehicle is moving, or 3rd gear if the fault occurs while the vehicle is stationary. 3rd gear is also engaged if a vehicle is brought to a stop and the selector lever is moved out of, and back into, D, Neutral and reverse gear are also available.
 

helievacpilot

Well-known member
Mar 29, 2007
960
0
Denver CO
Don't over-complicate it. Clean the battery terminals. Make sure your engine and body grounds are good. Test that alternator.

Granted, you can't check the current output of the alternator with a multi-meter, but at least you can see if it's outputting approx. 14.2 volts.

If it is, take it to your local parts shop and have it tested under load for voltage/current.
 

Longtallsally

Well-known member
Nov 28, 2016
76
1
UT
My only Rover experience is the RRS SC we got for my wife about a year ago. I. Love. It. I am so jealous, that I figured it was time to get one for myself after drooling for so many years (you may have seen my intro thread).

Anyway, you gotta know what you're getting into. I'm not assuming that any D2 that I get will be immaculate and never have me turn on a wrench on it. I'm actually assuming that over time, it will be a LOT of work. But with the prices so low, and such an abundance of parts, it makes a fun toy. If you don't want to play with it, then there are probably better examples. I'm expecting to need to have a "back up" vehicle for whenever the one I get gives me problems, but also think it will not be that big of a deal once I get to learn the machine.

Back on my wife's RRS, it is WONDERFUL. I mean, how can you go wrong with 500 hp? But it does still have some Roverisms about it: radio sometimes doesn't come on, other systems are a bit strange from time to time, but I don't care. We are keeping a healthy slush fund to cover anything that might go wrong now that the warranty is out. But we never expected it to be a hammer for reliability. We wanted a stylish, powerful, and capable machine with a good bit of utility, so it will stay.

The Disco will be mmuch the same, just on a different scale. If you don't want to tinker, might be best to off it and find a bit more of an appliance.
 

Longtallsally

Well-known member
Nov 28, 2016
76
1
UT
Supercharged Sport is fun as hell. I've only driven the 4.2 but that thing could move in ways I don't think a 5,000 pound vehicle should.

I think it's closer to 6k lbs. Yes the thing is completely nuts. It handles flat and at 1/2 throttle you are rapidly approaching triple digits at the end of an on ramp. You pass at will, accelerate at alarming rates and ride along in sublime comfort. Honestly, I'd be looking at one of those, but it's a scoshe more than I'd like to spend and difficult to modify.

The Disco is certainly a dramatically different animal, but in driving what I did today, they are certainly of the same cloth. And it will take less $$$ to fix, and is probably more capable in many regards.
 

Rob371

Well-known member
Nov 29, 2016
150
1
Charlevoix, Michigan
Thanks for all the support guys. A simple way to test the alternator under load is just turn on everything possible and watch the voltage on a meter. It should be stable with loads applied. I don't have an exact value for a low number but I think below around 13.4 would be suspect.

Drove into town for a bit, then back home last night. No flashing lights. I'll update when I get a moment to run some tests.
 

Rob371

Well-known member
Nov 29, 2016
150
1
Charlevoix, Michigan
Ground connection at battery was crap. I cleaned up B- and B+ connection at battery, cleaned the body grounds on the inner passenger fender, cleaned power and ground on alternator. Might be on to something.
 

JohnB

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2007
2,295
12
Oregon
You will find that doing any repair to a Rover will end with about 10 minutes of joy before something else breaks.
They have a personality and even changing tires will end with multiple oil leaks, miss. engine codes. etc...
Have Fun
 

Rob371

Well-known member
Nov 29, 2016
150
1
Charlevoix, Michigan
Without reading the other posts, the two things that cause that are a bad battery, or a failing XYZ switch.

Checked out battery, connections, etc... The connections at battery were in poor shape. Resolved all of that. I drove it around for a day without issue. My wife drives it and it came back on. She may be jinxed, don't repeat that. Shut down, restart and it's fine. Very intermittent. I'm moving on to the switch.