What engines (non-rover) are ok for a D2?
- Thread starter No Pvmt
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Todd-Squad said:
I can just see someone installing one of these, and finding out they still get 12 mpg. . .
Not a D2 but I thought about this before but decided that going 300tdi is a better thing. My dads GMC has the 4.8 V8 with a 4l80E behind it and it is a fantastic motor and returns really great mileage (21 hwy at 65 mph) numbers considering its hauling around a half ton pickup.
I thought about the 4.8 as parts are ubiquitous, they arent much heavier than the stock BOPR V8, are close dimensionally, makes MUCH more easy power, can be mated to the stock ZF trans (with Marks kit) or GM trans mated to LT230 (with Marks kit), and the best part: they are CHEAP! You can pick up a low mileage (like 50k) used one, with accessories, harness and ecu, for $800.
I would think that this would be a decent swap in an OBDII truck since it is a newer motor and OBDII. Would be a lot of work but it would eliminate all issues of the alloy BOPR motor.
I thought about the 4.8 as parts are ubiquitous, they arent much heavier than the stock BOPR V8, are close dimensionally, makes MUCH more easy power, can be mated to the stock ZF trans (with Marks kit) or GM trans mated to LT230 (with Marks kit), and the best part: they are CHEAP! You can pick up a low mileage (like 50k) used one, with accessories, harness and ecu, for $800.
I would think that this would be a decent swap in an OBDII truck since it is a newer motor and OBDII. Would be a lot of work but it would eliminate all issues of the alloy BOPR motor.
p m said:
Sure, assuming the loaded gears in front weren't doing anything in the first place, you'd see some savings from the reduction in load.
The simple fact is, the load on them WAS helping to propel the vehicle forward. In 2HI, the rear wheels take the entire load. So no load on the front drivetrain, and 2x as much load on the rear.
So, how does that power balance work out for you now?
There's only two good reasons to run 2HI:
A)The OEM is too cheap to install a center diff, and you need to unbind the drivetrain. But the Rover already has a center diff.
B)You can unlock the front hubs, leaving the entire front drivetrain non-rotating, you can save some fuel. But the Rover doesn't have locking hubs.
Unless you get a NON-OBD2 truck (1995 and OLDER) what you're trying do is 150% illegal for on-road use in most States and and completely and totally illegal on a FED level anywhere.
UNLESS you use a same year or newer GAS engine (as the Disco was never available with a light duty or any diesel engine in the USA) Also you MUST use a light duty gas engine, same year or newer and retail ALL emission equipment.
If you have ANY and I mean ANY thoughts that a replacement Rover motor is too costly you have ZERO idea of the $$ and time involved in a true *quality* swap... or even a hack job.
I don't mean to sound harsh - just realistic. My swap was very very very involved and certainly not for the faint of heart.
UNLESS you use a same year or newer GAS engine (as the Disco was never available with a light duty or any diesel engine in the USA) Also you MUST use a light duty gas engine, same year or newer and retail ALL emission equipment.
If you have ANY and I mean ANY thoughts that a replacement Rover motor is too costly you have ZERO idea of the $$ and time involved in a true *quality* swap... or even a hack job.
I don't mean to sound harsh - just realistic. My swap was very very very involved and certainly not for the faint of heart.
Roving Beetle said:Unless you get a NON-OBD2 truck (1995 and OLDER) what you're trying do is 150% illegal for on-road use in most States and and completely and totally illegal on a FED level anywhere.
UNLESS you use a same year or newer GAS engine (as the Disco was never available with a light duty or any diesel engine in the USA) Also you MUST use a light duty gas engine, same year or newer and retail ALL emission equipment.
If you have ANY and I mean ANY thoughts that a replacement Rover motor is too costly you have ZERO idea of the $$ and time involved in a true *quality* swap... or even a hack job.
I don't mean to sound harsh - just realistic. My swap was very very very involved and certainly not for the faint of heart.
We just covered this in spades over on Expo . . . Quite a rousing discussion, but at least it pretty well uncovered most of the salient points . . .
Cliff notes from Expo as I don't go there?
I have the info right from the Fed. Government via phone and emails for what it's worth.
I have the info right from the Fed. Government via phone and emails for what it's worth.
Im going 300tdi in my D1 but if I wanted to stay gas, I would totally do a GM 4.8 V8 LS motor. The GM motor can be bolted to the stock mounts with a Marks kit, bolted to the stock ZF trans with a marks kit (and the 4.8s power is about the same, slightly more, as the Rover 4.6 but with better design), and since its a GM motor, there are a ton of options for aftermarket management or plenty of companies that will modify a stock GM computer to omit the automatic trans input.
Roving Beetle said:Cliff notes from Expo as I don't go there?
I have the info right from the Fed. Government via phone and emails for what it's worth.
Well, I guess the majority opinion pretty much came down to don't worry about the legality of swaps, because the EPA isn't looking.
David
Fuck off... you waste so much bandwidth it's not even funny...please go back to EXPO, you belong there, or better yet, go to LRO...
Bottom line with the expo thread is that you didn't hear what you wanted to hear and when told the reality, keep doubting it. you just don't get it.
Please let us know about your imaginary swap and then your imaginary trip round the world...
You really are that guy...
Bottom line with the expo thread is that you didn't hear what you wanted to hear and when told the reality, keep doubting it. you just don't get it.
Please let us know about your imaginary swap and then your imaginary trip round the world...
You really are that guy...
Viggen said:
I was just looking at the specs on the 4.8, and you're right. It looks like an awesome engine for a swap. Probably has much lower emissions than the Rover engine too, so it should pass emissions with flying colors if it's installed with the OBD II system and cats, etc.
Mongo said:
If it's a D2 then it will be complicated, if it's a D1 like mine, then I don't see it being too bad. GM Performance makes a stand alone ECU and trans controller for their motors and trans which includes the harness and everything.
Mongo said:
Yes. I would be if I were putting a diesel in. I don't think there's any way I could talk my way past the EPA on that one with an OBD2 system. The 4.8 is a gas motor though, and made for this class of vehicle, so if I kept all the emissions equipment, etc. I might have a chance. Might not be able to talk anything past the EPA though. The state wouldn't be a problem though.
The EPA *IS* watching by the way.
Gas to gas same year or newer and same class of engine with retained emission equip is just fine and dandy. No issues other than swapping and doing it right.
The 4.8 is a very nice little motor and would be a great swap. Just get a full 1/2 ton GM truck to rob the cat converters/O2 sensors etc and engine harness/ECU and you'r all set with a D1. The D1 trans is hydraulic controlled and easy to swap to. Or go non-OBD2 and don't worry about much of anything to speak of. Still not "legal" on a FED level however it is openly and admittedly not enforced and not a concern.
I have done a lot of swaps - some for legal use and some for off road use, none are cheap and none are "easy" but can be quite fun and rewarding.
Gas to gas same year or newer and same class of engine with retained emission equip is just fine and dandy. No issues other than swapping and doing it right.
The 4.8 is a very nice little motor and would be a great swap. Just get a full 1/2 ton GM truck to rob the cat converters/O2 sensors etc and engine harness/ECU and you'r all set with a D1. The D1 trans is hydraulic controlled and easy to swap to. Or go non-OBD2 and don't worry about much of anything to speak of. Still not "legal" on a FED level however it is openly and admittedly not enforced and not a concern.
I have done a lot of swaps - some for legal use and some for off road use, none are cheap and none are "easy" but can be quite fun and rewarding.
Roving Beetle said:The EPA *IS* watching by the way.
Gas to gas same year or newer and same class of engine with retained emission equip is just fine and dandy. No issues other than swapping and doing it right.
The 4.8 is a very nice little motor and would be a great swap. Just get a full 1/2 ton GM truck to rob the cat converters/O2 sensors etc and engine harness/ECU and you'r all set with a D1. The D1 trans is hydraulic controlled and easy to swap to. Or go non-OBD2 and don't worry about much of anything to speak of. Still not "legal" on a FED level however it is openly and admittedly not enforced and not a concern.
I have done a lot of swaps - some for legal use and some for off road use, none are cheap and none are "easy" but can be quite fun and rewarding.
Its statements like that that worry me in my early stages of a 300tdi swap. I havent completely acquired the motor and drivetrain for my D1. The EPA never really entered my mind until I got this close to actually doing it. The swap in Va. is legal but then you get into the whole country aspect of it. A motor not approved for use in the US might come back to bite in the end. Its almost as obvious as a 4BT or 4B Isuzu motor, which is just as illegal but not in actual motor but engine class. I really want a diesel for the power delivery and increased range but it is just so damn hard as we really dont have much to work with that could be considered truly legal in the States within our weight class short of using nightmarishly complicated MB or VMM diesels out of Jeeps. There was a comment out there about "we are catching on to you Land Rover guys" posted on Expo which is scary if it is true. There are new states every year adopting tougher and tougher inspection rules that are getting closer to, and going beyond, EPA rules.
I LOVE the 4.8. My dad has one in his GMC Sierra and even at 120000 miles, it pulls like it did on day one. We threw a Gibson dual exhaust system, K&N FIPK and Jet Chip on it and it pulls extremely well and hard and has a habit of lighting up tires with no issue. This thread got me thinking. The 3.9 is on its last legs I feel in my D1 and I would love to put a freshened motor in there and at the same time pick up some power and economy and a V8 of the same class but newer model year would be a fun LEGAL swap that is about as close to above reproach as possible. Marks Adapters has a mount kit that allows mounting of the motor off the original D1 mounts and doesnt require changing the trans position in any way so there are no linkage issues. They have an adapter kit allowing the use of the hydro D1 ZF auto trans to the GM and using a GM starter (but needs a bellhousing mod done that Im unsure of). So, the motor can be installed to the stock auto trans with no movement therefore no affect to linkage of any type. An OBDI D1 with the "simpler" of the electronics could be retrofitted to for a stand alone ecu pretty easily. You dont even need to get it all from the donor vehicle as there are numerous companies out there that can supply you with a plug and play harness omitting whatever you would like.
How much communication is made between the engine computer and a body computer (forgive me for not knowing if there is even one) on a D1? A swap to an OBDII truck would be MUCH more complicated. Then again, nothing is as easy as just putting another, larger (4.6) Rover motor.