What's to come??

[Alan]

Hey folks,

Just got back from the dealer this morning for some work I needed done. I found out a little while back that the dealer was recently bought by a couple brothers who own Ford dealerships. Apparently since then, almost everyone who worked at the dealer prior has left. In fact I found out today that the last certified tech they have is also leaving. The young lot girl who gave me a lift kind of blabbed everything to me. There's only two people left from the original group. The one certified tech and the other lot guy and the tech is leaving soon. I asked, "so who's working on these trucks now?". She said they have a couple journeymen who come from Dodge and Pontiac dealerships but they don't know anything about Land Rovers. They've been trying to milk the LR guy for as much info as they possibly can get before he leaves. She even told me about one instance she witnessed where one of the guys asked, "can I just cut this off?". The LR tech apparently said "NO, you do that and this truck does run anymore!"

The new Service Mgr is from a Hyundai dealership and has no knowledge on LR's at all. I've asked him questions and he always says "I have to ask Doug" their certified tech. The previous mgr was a pure LR guy. He knew everything about these trucks.

Even all the sales guides there don't have that LR feel anymore. They all wear suits instead of the safari clothes. They can tell you all the specs of the LR3 but talk to them about the D1's and D2's and their eyes glaze over. They have no idea about them. Say the word "Defender" to them and you might as well be speaking another language. One of the sales guides told the lot girl that the fully loaded LR3 was $143,000 CDN which is not even remotely close. They're priced from $61,000 to $67,000. The Range Rovers aren't even that much.

Guess I better find out where all the LR guys went. I don't think I'm bringing my truck back to this dealer anymore. Feel kinda sad.

 

[DiscoveryXD]

That's very sad. I would try to inform as many other rover owners that you know in your area. I would hate to see someone find out the hard way when thier truck fails.

 

[antichrist]

Don't feel bad. I called the local dealer (Land Rover Buckhead) here last summer and asked for the service department. When the guy picked up I asked what the labor was for replacing the clutch on a '95 Disco (yea, I know, but I didn't have much spare time on my hands). Anyway, guess what his reply was...

"That's a manual transmission, right?" <--- a very bad sign

Me, "Ummm..yeah. As far as I know, automatics don't have a clutch."
Him, "Land Rovers didn't come with a manual transmission."
Me, "Yes they did. They haven't since the late 90's, but they WERE sold here."
Him, "Ok, hang on."
A few minutes later, "Well, no one knows for sure, but they think about $1300"
Me, "Ok, thanks, bye."

I did it myself later when I had time.

I firmly believe that Ford will only look at Land Rovers as a commodity status symbol. They won't care squat about heritage. Even Land Rover was looking at them that way when I applied for a sales job at dealer in '92. I didn't get the job because I didn't focus on the "image" and "status" during my interview mock sales pitch. Silly me, I focused on heritage and 4WD capabilities.

 

[bri]

That is so far not the case here in CO. However, the amount of knowledge and parts available for the older rigs is dwindling. On the other had genuine rover brake pads are as cheap at the dealer as anywhere.

 

[Alan]

Brian,

I hope that things improve but it's looking kinda bleak right now. When I asked for the old Service Mgr, they said "he retired" and when I pressed the parts guy he said "Yea, he said he needs time to think and decided to retire." That sounds a lot like someone who didn't like what he saw and quit. He kind of warned me of the change of ownership but I didn't think this would happen. There's nothing LR'ish about ANYONE there except for the last remaining LR tech. He still wears his kahki LR shirt and slacks to work on trucks and such but the other two techs, you can spot them a mile away. They both had on grubby, oil stained coveralls and clomp around the lot like they're working on Cavaliers or something.

Tom - I'm sure it will be a matter of time before I run into a situation like you described. The old LR's will be totally foreign to them. I remember talking to the old Service Mgr about a Series IIa I saw and was interested in and he got all excited about it and said, "if you get it, you have to bring it in to show us. The guys in the back will love seeing it." If I ever tried to bring up the old LR's to the new guys, it'd be like "huh?".

I'm hoping maybe the old guys will open an independant shop.

 

[Mobius 1]

Yeah, that is really sad, I don't like how Ford bought Land Rover. Especially now that they made the freelander, and cheeper parts on some of the newer vehicles.

 

[KEJ]

The only good news in this thread is that Alan and Tom are posting again. I was about to send a posse out to find you boys! Alan, it sounds like your next move is to find out ASAP where the real LR guys have gone. When you need 'em, you want to know where to find 'em. Bummer about this situation. I can't imagine this will be the last we hear of such things.

KJ

 

[D Chapman]

Hey Tom, I wonder if that was the same guy who worked over at the Gwinnett LR dealership. I stopped in there once to get a headlight switch. When I got it, I asked how much it would be to put it on for me, and if they had time to do it while I waited. He told me it would be a 2 hour job, at 85.00 an hour! I told him that seemed a little long. He replyed by saying the steering wheel had to be removed, and that was trickey because of the air bag.

 

[jmoore]

Hey guys don't worry. My other passion is MG's. They haven't made an MG in 24 years. But during the 16 year run, they made 500,000. 24 years after the last dealership closed in the US parts are still plentiful and ethusiast and shops still abound. It's still pretty easy to find help and the parts you need. LR has made hundred of thousands of Disco's too. As long as you love your Disco, there willl be others around that share your love and passion and will help you keep it going. Don't dispair. Just enjoy your truck. My MG is about to be 35 years old. It was my daily driver this spring summer and winter. It will probably out last me. So should a disco if you treat it right.

 

[DiscoJen]

Sadly enough, this must be a growing problem.

When I first went to my dealership here in Tampa when I bought my DI (april 2004) they seemed knowledgable and friendly. I called their parts dept. a few weeks ago to see if they had any swivel pin shims in stock and the guy had no clue what I was talking about. I tried to explain to him the system that they relate to and how they work and he was still clueless. He didn't even know what the swivel was. I hung up fairly quickly, disappointed, but not surprised. I hope that he was embarassed enough to educate himself a bit more cause he just got served...and by a chic nonetheless! lol

Jen

and yes...good to see you around more often again Tom!

 

[syoung]

John- being an MG guy as well, I gotta say that comparing a B to a Disco is a huge stretch. Show me the ECU on a 71 B... power windows? Trans ecu?
A 6 year old can figure out any system on a B, but the Disco (even the old ones) have more sensors and gizmos that make fixing them suck.

 

[JeffM]

Hey guys don't worry. My other passion is MG's. They haven't made an MG in 24 years. But during the 16 year run, they made 500,000. 24 years after the last dealership closed in the US parts are still plentiful and ethusiast and shops still abound. It's still pretty easy to find help and the parts you need. LR has made hundred of thousands of Disco's too. As long as you love your Disco, there willl be others around that share your love and passion and will help you keep it going. Don't dispair. Just enjoy your truck. My MG is about to be 35 years old. It was my daily driver this spring summer and winter. It will probably out last me. So should a disco if you treat it right.

Actually MG was resurected a while back - not sure how MG it is these days


http://carsearch.yahoo.co.uk/ctl/do/drilldown~100354123/MG

These MG's are alot more complicated than the MGB or the BGT. I heard that the Rover group was originally going to release a few of these models to the US - but that some politics came into play when BMW bought in.

BMW thought that a new MG would spoil its run with the Z3.

Jeff

 

[jmoore]

John- being an MG guy as well, I gotta say that comparing a B to a Disco is a huge stretch. Show me the ECU on a 71 B... power windows? Trans ecu?
A 6 year old can figure out any system on a B, but the Disco (even the old ones) have more sensors and gizmos that make fixing them suck.

True, true, I guess my sentiment was that even if dealers get crappy, there will still be a support network of supply houses, independant shops and enthusiast.

Jeff,

Yes, the MGF is available across the pond, and in Mexico from what I understand.

 

[syoung]

MG is looking to begin exporting to the USA again- don't know when. There has been only one MGF in the USA and I got to play with it- it belonged to a Brit military official and he was granted a two year pass for the car.
Modern MG's are very cool and would definately sell quite a few in the USA as long as they had decent techs. The 6 banger in the Freelander is also found in MG cars and I'm sure there are lots of other similarities. I'd buy an MG ZF in a hearbeat for a commuter car.

 

[Rocky]

Actually the Freelander was introduced in 1998, well before Ford had Land Rover afaik. It initially had just a 1.8 petrol/gas engine and a 2.0 diesel both of MG/Rover fame.

 

[Mobius 1]

My bad. I still don't like it though.

 

[Alan]

Even if you don't like the Freelanders, it's still sad to see them move production to the Maryland plant that manufactures the Escapes.

My uncle has a Freelander and told me a couple days ago that he's getting a new engine. Why? Because it has a leak and instead of trying to figure out where/what it was, they just decided to give him a new engine. These new owners better get used to diagnosing leaks or they're going to be doing a lot of engine swaps if this is their attitude. Good for my uncle I guess but the way he described it to me sounded like they just didn't want to diagnose the problem.

It was odd when I was picking up my truck this afternoon. I saw more Chryslers and Hondas on the lot than Land Rovers...looked almost like a used car lot. I just shook my head as I drove out. I'll be interested to see if they have any dealer events next year. The new owners cancelled the one for this year when they took over and all the suits in the place don't seem to be off-road enthusiasts.

Hi Karen

 

[syoung]

>Even if you don't like the Freelanders, it's still sad to see them move production to the Maryland plant that manufactures the Escapes. <

oh come on now, you just made that up. it doesn't share a single part with the Ford AND the new version for 07 won't either since they are moving towards a ruggedized version of the volvo/focus platform.

the reason they are swapping engines a lot lately is the rear main seal on the Midland Powertrain KV6 engines have been dropping like flies. Even if they replace the seal, it often leaks again- so replacing the engine is a better way to go. I've heard three theories as to why they fail, but nobody knows for sure. The problem with having the engine replaced is more often than not, they forget to hook everything back up or bolt everything back in... OR road test it. One guy had his steering rack nearly fall off since there was only one bolt holding it on after the dealer worked on it- then they blame the driver and initially refused warranty.

 

[Alan]

Steve,

My mistake. Ford is moving production of the Freelander to Halewood, Merseyside.

http://www.channel4.com/4car/news/news-story.jsp?news_id=5819

However, early on, the talk of moving them to the same plant that makes Escapes was discussed as well as I read that in some LR publication (I can't remember which) but it was mentioned. Obviously they changed their plans.

As for the leak(s), I don't know the exact details but the way my uncle described it to me was that they were finding coolant in the engine oil and they couldn't figure out where it was coming from so they decided to swap engines instead.

Either way, doesn't matter to me. Point is that this LR dealership now feels more like a used car lot that sells LR's than an actual LR Center.

 

[syoung]

coolant in the oil (and vice versa) is another common problem- 99% of the time it's the oil cooler and the other 1% is head gaskets. Usually the oil ends up in the coolant bottle. If that was the problem on his, the new engine will suffer the same fate.

Wonder if LR can remain in business when their warranty repairs are so costly?