Wisdom for differential install

[outono]

Next week im planning to install a pair of diffs from GBR in my Disco 1. They're set and ready to go, but having never thrown 3rd members on before, I wanted to see if there was anything I should consider or look out for while doing so. Any advice on this? What's the quickest, cleanest way to get this done, especially on the front.

 

[kris812]

First of all, I'm jealous! New diffs be nice! What is the reason for the swap? Different ratio or lockers?

Only advice I can offer is to hit the CAR WASH before the job. Clean the Diff housings and Front Hubs off as good as possible! Also it would be a great time to change the hub seals and possible front wheel bearings maybe the swivel bearings as well. I believe you can unbolt the whole hub assy to pull the front shafts and not mess with any of that stuff, but its "already off the truck, why not go through it?"

PS. at the very least, change the HUB seals as well! They will literally be starring you in the face with the hub assy off the truck

 

[outono]

Thanks a lot for the response!

Swapping because I had some bonus money burning a hole in my pocket and I wanted to throw TrueTracs front and rear on. Figured i'd go ahead and regear as well since I was going to be in there. Went with 3.9, which is a rather odd ball ratio (only ever seen it offered by GBR), but brings the truck right up to stock on its 235/85 tires. 4.11 just seemed to undergeared for the truck.

Great advice on cleaning the truck up. And ya, I think I might as well do the seals while im at it.

 

[p m]

No-brainer in the rear, the front is more involved.
You can remove and hang the front brake calipers, and then unbolt and pull outboard the "outers." Going this route saves you an incredible amount of time, but you need to have something to support the outers. I forgot what I used, could have been moving dollies with a few 4x4s stacked on top.

Taking the outers apart to remove the axleshafts, and then putting it all together, without doing any of R&R work will likely take you an hour and a half per side - if you use power tools and know exactly what you are doing. R&R on the swivels can take you easily another hour to two per side, + a long cleanup time.

 

[outono]

Thanks! Ya, I don't plan on digging into the hubs - been there, done that.

Since they're brand new gears with TTs, any recommendation on oil and oil weight? Should I run them for a break in and change the oil after 100 miles or something?

 

[1of40]

New grease all around. Nice life event to reset the whole game.

 

[kris812]

New Gear Break-In Procedure​

All new gear sets require a break-in period to prevent damage from overheating. Any overloading or over-heating will cause the gear oil to break down and cause undue stress to the ring & pinion gears. Please follow these guidelines to insure proper break-in:

• After light use for the first 15-20 miles, stop and let the differential cool before proceeding any further.
  • Repeat this process two or three times.
  • The gears run hotter than normal during the break-in process and require two or three heat-cycles to ensure proper performance and life expectancy.
• Avoid heavy acceleration and don't do any towing during the first 500 miles.
  • If you plan to do any towing following the initial 500 miles, then tow for a short distance (about 15 miles) and then stop to let the differential cool for 10-15 mins. Then resume your trip as planned.
  • If you've already put in over 1,000 miles on the new differential, then the diff is already broken in. Feel free to tow as normal.
• We highly recommend changing the oil after the first 500 miles. This will remove any metal particles or phosphorus coating that has come from the new gear set and bearings.

This may seem unnecessary but it is very easy to damage the differential by loading it before the gear set is completely broken in. The greatest damage results when a new ring & pinion has been run very hot before the gears are fully broken-in.

 

[outono]

What are the torque values of the bolts that attach the hub assembly (or as PM referred to it as the "outers") to the front axle?

 

[Jimmy]

What are the torque values of the bolts that attach the hub assembly (or as PM referred to it as the "outers") to the front axle?

Tight. Unless there's a special torque wrench (that I'm not aware of) that can get in there, a normal one won't fit.

 

[outono]

Its always something with these trucks...

So the swivels were serviced within the last year by a reputable shop just before I got the truck. There was no need to do them this weekend. Well, as I did prep on the vehicle this evening for the upcoming third member swap, the passenger side inside hub decided to let go and its heaving a decent amount of oil. I think i've lost around half a shotglass worth in the past hour, but it's slowing down.

I don't have a seal on me and I can't let the truck sit in the garage for more than the weekend so couple questions:

1. Is it likely to find a seal at an Oreillys, Autozone, NAPA, or something? My gut says no, but worth asking...

2. Why is there so much liquid? Is that due to a leak from the diff into the hub?

I've not done the hubs myself before so even if I find a seal, how easy is it to load it back up with the lost oil? I've already tried tightening the retaining plate, but no luck.

 

[robertf]

If everything is put together as original, there shouldn't be any oil in the hub so you'll need the inner seal as well.

There is a better hub seal to use thats got 2 lips. Its for older stuff that didn't have an internal oil seal and had gear oil flowing through everything. If you have to wait for mail order I'd go that route.

Applications are very early non NAS range rover, 85ish. probably 90/110 also.

 

[kris812]

I've ALWAYS put gear oil in my Hubs.. It was recommended by a LR shop near me if I EVER went into water as their grease stuff just holds the water inside the hubs forever. But they will always leak he said, and he was right; and it used to piss on the ground on the front 2 tires. He said I could change the seals but they'll leak again in a few months.. What really helped to keep the gear oil in was to Clean the pivot balls off really good at the car wash to get all the old grime off.. Then one time I put some Blue Devil additive in it and they're nearly leak free.. I don't mind some leaking so I know when they're empty

Seals Locally you can try cross referencing.

Corteco 15510034B​

or order one of these kits

Hub Oil Seal Kit For Land Rover Series Vehicles

Fits Series I, II/IIA and III vehicles. Includes distance piece, lock tab, hub oil seal, gasket and more.

www.roverparts.com

Hub Seal Kit RNK5623 | Rovers North - Land Rover Parts and Accessories Since 1979

Includes Genuine hub seal, drive flange gasket and locker for hub nut. (4 required) Fits These Vehicles: Model: Notes: Defender 90 1994 - 1997 Defender 90 NAS 1994 - 1997 Defender 110 1994 - 1997 Defender 130 1994 - 1997 Discovery I 1994 - 1999 Range...

www.roversnorth.com

 

[discostew]

New Gear Break-In Procedure​

All new gear sets require a break-in period to prevent damage from overheating. Any overloading or over-heating will cause the gear oil to break down and cause undue stress to the ring & pinion gears. Please follow these guidelines to insure proper break-in:

• After light use for the first 15-20 miles, stop and let the differential cool before proceeding any further.
  • Repeat this process two or three times.
  • The gears run hotter than normal during the break-in process and require two or three heat-cycles to ensure proper performance and life expectancy.
• Avoid heavy acceleration and don't do any towing during the first 500 miles.
  • If you plan to do any towing following the initial 500 miles, then tow for a short distance (about 15 miles) and then stop to let the differential cool for 10-15 mins. Then resume your trip as planned.
  • If you've already put in over 1,000 miles on the new differential, then the diff is already broken in. Feel free to tow as normal.
• We highly recommend changing the oil after the first 500 miles. This will remove any metal particles or phosphorus coating that has come from the new gear set and bearings.

This may seem unnecessary but it is very easy to damage the differential by loading it before the gear set is completely broken in. The greatest damage results when a new ring & pinion has been run very hot before the gears are fully broken-in.

That’s insane. The whole job doesn’t pay enough to do your break in procedure. Just stab the thing and steer. If you’re so inclined maybe get that original gear oil out of it after say 3,000 miles.

 

[discostew]

I do think there’s something to be said for hanging the caliper and taking the tie rod ends off it and removing the whole swivel housing as an assembly. After I knew the diffs from GLB are all good then I would do the swivel housing preload and replace all those seals.
When you change big stuff like the diffs and then there’s some noise or whatever, you’re going to know you haven’t changed anything in your hubs. So if there’s some new issue it will be much easier to sort that out.

 

[kris812]

That’s insane. The whole job doesn’t pay enough to do your break in procedure. Just stab the thing and steer. If you’re so inclined maybe get that original gear oil out of it after say 3,000 miles.

I looked that information up on a Gear Manufacture's website to help the OP understand better. While I am used to doing precision work on Aircraft, I understand this is just a Rover and just a Diff. However, I totally agree with the procedure and do NOT think it's insane by any means having rebuilt and setup a couple Diffs myself. "Run for 15mins and let cool down, repeat 3 times; change oil at 500 miles". Just go get Groceries in the Rover 3 times before you send it on the freeway. What is so hard about that?

 

[discostew]

I looked that information up on a Gear Manufacture's website to help the OP understand better. While I am used to doing precision work on Aircraft, I understand this is just a Rover and just a Diff. However, I totally agree with the procedure and do NOT think it's insane by any means having rebuilt and setup a couple Diffs myself. "Run for 15mins and let cool down, repeat 3 times; change oil at 500 miles". Just go get Groceries in the Rover 3 times before you send it on the freeway. What is so hard about that?

Well I think it’s kind of over the top. I’ve done hundreds of ring and pinion jobs working for General Motors. Lots of them for Land Rover too. The thing is right or it’s not. If it’s not right it’s going to blow up, even if you break it in your way.

 

[DarylJ]

Well I think it’s kind of over the top. I’ve done hundreds of ring and pinion jobs working for General Motors. Lots of them for Land Rover too. The thing is right or it’s not. If it’s not right it’s going to blow up, even if you break it in your way.

Break in rituals are like religion to a lot of people. To the point that many manufacturers were putting in new car break-in information in the owners manuals long past the time when it was completely and totally irrelevant, as nearly all of it is today.

If break in was a thing brand new fleet and rental vehicles would be failing at alarming rates.

Break in was a thing/is a thing if you're hand fettling precision parts in non-precision ways. That's just not how things are done anymore and not the parts supply we have. And it hasn't been a thing since long before these trucks were manufactured.

 

[outono]

Thanks everyone for the advice. We got the front third member done and put a British Classics starter in. We'll do the rear tomorrow.

The hardest part was getting the damn thing onto the studs. Heavy and not a lot of room to maneuver.

I took a deeper dive into the hubs this evening and we found the source of the leak.

For whatever reason, the ABS thrust washer and bearings in both hubs exploded. How does this happen? I haven't used ABS for a while now, but it would explain its horrible performance. I pulled a ton of metal out ABS sensor port, so im guessing this is why the seals failed on the passenger side, but maybe im just lucky they haven't totally failed on the driver side yet.

What kills me is that these hubs were redone a year ago (minus the ABS bits) so it looks like they're going to be done again...

 

[terryjm1]

Speaking of break in procedures that are no longer relevant… I recently purchased a new Toyota. The first recommended oil change isn’t until 10,000 miles. My wife’s Subaru required the first change at 3,000 miles and it isn’t that old. Wonder if they do some sort of break in procedure at the factory?

 

[terryjm1]

Thanks everyone for the advice. We got the front third member done and put a British Classics starter in. We'll do the rear tomorrow.

The hardest part was getting the damn thing onto the studs. Heavy and not a lot of room to maneuver.

I took a deeper dive into the hubs this evening and we found the source of the leak.

For whatever reason, the ABS thrust washer and bearings in both hubs exploded. How does this happen? I haven't used ABS for a while now, but it would explain its horrible performance. I pulled a ton of metal out ABS sensor port, so im guessing this is why the seals failed on the passenger side, but maybe im just lucky they haven't totally failed on the driver side yet.

What kills me is that these hubs were redone a year ago (minus the ABS bits) so it looks like they're going to be done again...

Wow, you have had some issues with that D1.