Yup, another HG thread

[degride]

So for the last 5 - 6k I've had a slow leak on the drivers side head, front. I was hoping to get through winter without doing it but the disco had other plans. The 03 DII has 174k and the last HG job was done around 66k.

After searching and reading ad nauseam about replacing the head gaskets I'm still left scratching my head regarding the following:

Studs or bolts
Machine current heads or buy a refurb set with all new guides/stems/etc.

I've always used synthetic oil with a oil change schedule between 3000 and 3500 miles coupled with using premium fuel. In addition, I can count on one hand how many times I've had it over 4k RPM. I guess the tell-tale sign will be once I get the heads out and inspect. I just started tearing the top half of the engine apart today so I hope to be there in the next couple of nights or so.

Since I had to pull the rack off to get it into the garage I'll be taking my time with this task along with knocking out other items like engine mounts once the engine is back together. Might as well do what I can since it now fits in the garage.

 

[ERover82]

For most I'd recommend the bolts as they're much cheaper, easier to install, and don't require removing the rocker covers to re-torque. I'd buy a refurbished set of heads from one of our local dweb vendors.

 

[Tugela]

For most I'd recommend the bolts as they're much cheaper, easier to install, and don't require removing the rocker covers to re-torque. I'd buy a refurbished set of heads from one of our local dweb vendors.

This ^.

If your truck has 174k miles on it I would say any advantages to installing studs are diminishing returns at this point. If this was your first HG job and the truck had 74k miles it might be a different story. Use the savings on the parts to replace other components while you're at it (maybe t-stat, water pump, radiator hoses, etc.). Good luck and have fun.

 

[turbodave]

Personally I'd stud them. I have checked on the re-torque on every "first time" engine I've installed ARP's to, but never needed to apply additional torque.
They are guaranteed consistent and you will be torquing fresh threads against fresh threads; you don't get that on "made to a price, not made to quality" bolts. One look at the thread finish on the cheap bolts will tell you that.
I'd call them cheap insurance.

 

[jymmiejamz]

I have very little experience with head studs, but I have heard a lot of bad things. My experience is a motor with around 10k miles purchased from Cannibal V8 (I think that's the name, the place was in OK) and was installed at the dealership in Richmond. The customer came in for an oil change and the engine was leaking badly. I tried to take pics, but they didn't turn out very good. 10k on normal head bolts would be leak free. Here are the pics I took. The place that sold the motor would not cover any of the repairs, but wanted us to pull the motor (customer would have to pay labor) and ship it to them (customer would have to pay shipping) so they could evaluate if it was a warranty item. This was sold as a long block fully assembled.








There is no reason to replace your cylinder heads unless you have the older 14 bolt style.

 

[p m]

There is no reason to replace your cylinder heads unless you have the older 14 bolt style.

I think the OP meant sending his own heads to the shop vs. buying already machined set from our vendors.
Personally, I much prefer the second option.

 

[jimmybuffett]

Quick question ,and sorry to jump the thread but I am looking at a 03 D2 with 100k , needs heads bad -white smoke pouring out exhaust and stall after it warms up. What's the best way to fix it. Studs -new heads ect ? Also what would I expect to pay for a mechanic - non dealer -thanks Tom
Also can anyone recommend a good mechanic near nyc/li

 

[jymmiejamz]

Quick question ,and sorry to jump the thread but I am looking at a 03 D2 with 100k , needs heads bad -white smoke pouring out exhaust and stall after it warms up. What's the best way to fix it. Studs -new heads ect ? Also what would I expect to pay for a mechanic - non dealer -thanks Tom
Also can anyone recommend a good mechanic near nyc/li

It could need a block... Also, see my post above about studs.

 

[degride]

I hear the arguments for both but the consensus seems to be leaning towards bolts. If this were a new short block I was installing heads on I'd probably go with studs.

I've got it completely dismantled now. Will be giving a few people calls tomorrow for a set of refurbed heads.

Will update with further details as I progress and for future posters as well.

And for what its worth, everything external to the engine has been replaced through routine maintenance; seriously, everything. Well, except the steering box but it isn't connected to the engine per se.

 

[pjkbrit]

Studs...period. Yes you should re-torque....worth it! Bolts streeeeeeeetched into an aluminium threaded block to generate a seal were never a good idea....just a cheap and nasty way of 'attempting' to one hit torque a cylinder head onto a block......plain bad engineering and guess who pays for those decisions! Plenty of literature on why bolts should not be used on this engine. I work on Subarus also...same head gasket issues, same reasons.

I would also double check your block decks for flatness. No point placing nice new/refurb'd heads onto a block that has warped...which at 174K is a possibility.

Am going to just assume it's got a 180 degree thermostat too and that you are rebuilding this motor for keeps....

 

[SGaynor]

Studs:

http://www.discoweb.org/forums/showthread.php?t=87178&highlight=robison

 

[riceybean]

If you are up to it, pull the lifters apart and clean them. Wish I had on mine while waiting on the heads, now I have one or two that are noisy.

 

[degride]

Just when I thought I was clear on the direction it's back to being as clear as mud. I pulled one head last night; the other tonight. So far everything looks good.

Yes, I've got the 180 degree t-stat; have had it on there since before the clock turned 100k and yes I''m planning on keeping it otherwise I would have parted it and started down the path of a white, "sunroofless" D1 or a late model LR3. In addition, the coolant has been changed religiously and like I said in the OP I can count on one hand how many times it's been between 3k and 3500k RPMs. My late father taught me if you want the car to take care of you, you take care of it

My youngest son wants this DII for his first ride considering all the trips throughout the west we've had in it along with the memories. I think it would be a perfect first car, slow, big and hopefully he won't have to prove it out but less likely for him to get hurt versus the other party.

My question now is, how long would I need to wait to re-torque the heads using studs? And as one other poster stated, due to metal fatigue, I wonder how much more beneficial studs would be versus bolts considering the mileage.

As far as the lifters, I guess I should do that. I do not want to replace them because quite frankly, I'd want to replace the cam as well at that point which I really don't want to do. Might as well pull the engine and completely rebuild it. Considering it's always had synthetic and has always used premium in it I think the short block is in good health.

 

[pjkbrit]

500 miles then re-torque. At this mileage the cam is probably worn....and the timing chain for CERTAIN will have stretched. Both can be changed in situ of course....if it were me I WOULD spend the time given that these parts do not cost a fortune and you are already this far into the motor. I would NOT change the lifters without a cam change.
I hear you on the sunroofless cars....my 04 leaks and the liner is now out of the car while I spend the winter chasing all the leaks....a royal pain in the arse...and i don't even use the roof anyway....they are so small....!