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Jack Quinlan (Jsq)
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 01:03 am: | 
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Is B2B more of a sight seeing bed and breakfast of a camel trophy reborn? I've been checking out their site and talking to a few folks about it, but I'm curious what any of you may know. I think someone(people) here have done it. Is this hardcore or just a friendly gathering? I'm sort of at a time in my life when I can prioritize around things like this and I'd like to know if it's a worthwhile adventure. I don't have any problem with touring, but I'm a little more interested in spending my time in the dirt and away from traffic so if it's a lot of asphalt and motels it might not be my style. Also, anyone know why they recommend you have gas cans INSIDE your vehicle preferrably right behind your seat??!! I can understand the physics of weight placement, but the number one reason I have a roofrack is to get gas OUT of the car.
happy to hear any of your opinions.
happy trails. |
perroneford
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 09:09 am: |
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It's not hardcore and generally all expeditions are designed to be done by stock trucks on stock tires. They do offer some side trips for those who's tastes run a bit outside the norm. And some of the scouting trips have gotten hairy.
Some of the members like to camp, others like hotels. You choose which option you want as you make your own arrangements now.
I have no idea why they recommend putting fuel inside the vehicle. Although I carry mine there, if I had a rack, I'd put them outside as many of the B2B members do.
-P |
James F. Thompson Jaime (Blueboy)
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 09:19 am: |
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Jack,
check out:
../17/5883.html"#444444"> |
Peter Carey (Pcarey)
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 10:38 am: |
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Oh yeah, that's a greeeeeaat thread explaining the B2B. 
pwc |
mongo
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 11:23 am: |
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Just a couple of comments:
I was on B2B 2002, I had a GREA TIME, Made some GREAT FREINDS and wasn't dissapointed by any means. It's not a Camel Trophy event, it's not a rock crawling competiton nor is it a hardcore expedition.
Some parts were dissorganized, some truck shouldn't have been there, and some of the participants had a different idea what the whole thing was about. The field reports really didn't reflect what actually happened on the trip, they were based on one view, from a truck that wasn't there for parts of the trek due to a mechanical breakdown.
There were a lot of mechanical problems, but most were from lack of preparation. Most of the participants weren't prepared for this so who do you blame for that. The organizers worked very hard to make the trek into a adventure, not a guided tour.
We did 7800 miles in 17 days, from Syracuse NY to San Diego CA, then on the Trek to Canada and then back through Canada to Syracuse. No problems, just a really smelly truck...Like I said before, I had a GREAT TIME, made some GREAT FRIENDS...
As for Jaime little flashback, I won't beat that dead horse again...maybe we should do a poll to see who's experienced a long road trip in a rover and the places they've been, probably a short list...
Frank
can't wait to read the responses... |
James F. Thompson Jaime (Blueboy)
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 12:21 pm: |
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Frank,
the guy asked for some information. there are many comments in that thread. he can do what he wants with them.
if you're inferring I haven't been on a long "road" trip in a LR, you're off the mark pretty far.
Jaime |
John Cinquegrana (Johnc)
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 12:47 pm: |
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Hey P, were you ever part of the Trek event? Just curious.
John C. |
mongo
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 01:02 pm: |
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Hey Jaime,
no need to get offended, no the purpose of that statement...i've got 37k on my 2001 sd and I don't drive it for work...
Frank |
James F. Thompson Jaime (Blueboy)
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 01:09 pm: |
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no problem Frank - no offense taken.
your idea would be cool on the trip poll except I'm not too sure of the response validity we'd get.
Jaime |
mongo
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 01:13 pm: |
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Jaime,
it would be interesting though...
frank |
Eric Pena (Evalp)
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 01:18 pm: |
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Just wanted to say,
before we get into another pissing match about B2B, why not understand two things.
1. We all enjoy our trucks differently and that's OK.
2. Remember Land Rover in Africa along time ago. Long, hot expeditions under the sun. Maybe not rock crawling and stuff we like now but what B2B does is synonymous with Land Rover as well. |
Peter Matusov (Pmatusov)
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 01:26 pm: |
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Eric,
the obvious difference would be the amount of effort that needed to go into a trek across Africa in the "old days," and what does it take to cross this country cruisin' Insterstate 5 or 15.
this is basically comparing driving on a highway with building it.
peter |
James F. Thompson Jaime (Blueboy)
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 01:28 pm: |
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good point Eric as I would not take my 109 SW rock crawling. hell I bent the shit out of the rear door the first time out as I forgot how low it was to the ground. and that was just on some local trail stuff.
Jaime |
mongo
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 01:29 pm: |
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Hey Jack,
on the gas in the vehicle question. I may be wrong on the numbers but a gallon of gas is about 7lbs. I carried 4, 5 gallon gerry cans, that's 140lbs of fuels. No swaybars, 2" lift, 285/75's, I don't need anything on the roof to help it roll. By placing the gas low in the middle of the truck, it helps keeps all 4 tires on the ground...
Frank |
Erik Olson (Jon)
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 01:34 pm: |
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Doesn't the MAR group keep gas inside their Land Rovers with the cap slightly open? LOL
e |
Eric Pena (Evalp)
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 01:39 pm: |
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Peter, expeditions still happend in places like Africa and Australia but it is 2003 (almost) and the roads traveled even there are generally maintined roads with no real 4x4 action to them. In the US we just pave most of our roads now.
Again, we are getting all up in arms over B2B and I think it's all so silly. I know of at least 2 areas on this board with stuff on expeditions. What is the matter with expeditions and what is the matter with B2B doing them?
As to the gas, if you read anything reagaring preperation of long gear dependent expeditions, keeping the gas in the vehicle is the right way to do it. We are talking about large amounts though. If I has 2 I would pet them up top and if anymore would they go inside. Wieght is the factor as pointed out before. |
mongo
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 01:41 pm: |
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Good points all around, I agree that a "African Expedition" is completely different than what we did on B2B 2002. Peter, yes part of it was "cruisin" highway 5, but most of it off the beaten path. It was a great route, for the trucks that actually did it...you weren't there so you don't know...
Frank |
Erik Olson (Jon)
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 01:52 pm: |
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For the record, Frank had about three-thousand extra pounds of electronic crap in his truck as well - the petrol hardly made a dent.
No one stays connected like Mongo!
Frank, how's the sherpa?
e |
Jack Quinlan (Jsq)
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 01:54 pm: |
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Ok, well getting input around here can be like throwing rocks at a beehive, but I still do it. I'm sort of pleased that I managed to stir up "grp waffle bridges", "dusy ershim with snow" and "b2b" all in a few weeks.
It sounds like B2B may be more of a roadtrip than I'm interested in and that's fine, so any other suggestions for organized "expeditions" in North or Central America? Maybe I need to just plan my own. I'm in San Diego so maybe I need to take advantage of Mexico and cover some more ground. I'd really like to get out there with a few vehicles so I'm interested in a club or society, but i'm not sure there's one tailored to my wants.
anything else I should be looking into?
I'm not looking for just a rock crawling weekend trip. Those are great and I have fun on them but I'm enjoying romanticizing the mythical "Expedition": Mostly dirt, some good obstacles and a lot of ground covered. |
Eric Pena (Evalp)
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 01:58 pm: |
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Jack, I have one option I have looked into and it sounds to be more hard core. I will email you. |
perroneford
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 01:59 pm: |
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Jack:
I think Bill Burke used to do something more inline with what you are looking for. You might check out his web page.
John C. :
Nope, never made it. Was always there is spirit though. I was hoping to do the winter trek with Arden, but he's got medical issues now. Maybe one day.
-P |
Peter Matusov (Pmatusov)
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 02:00 pm: |
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ok, Frank, i was determined to stay away from it, but this "you weren't there so you don't know" part got me started.
Here's the '02 B2B schedule:
Quote:
September 1 (sun) � Day 00 (registration day) � San Diego. Meeting at Pioneer Centre (LR dealership).
September 2 (mon) � Day 01 � San Diego - Tecate - Ocatillo - Borrego Springs (240miles)
September 3 (tue) � Day 02 � Borrego Springs, Anza Borrego Desert State Park - Palm Springs - Barstow (265 miles)
September 4 (wed) � Day 03 � Barstow - Las Vegas (265miles) .Spend the night in a casino hotel, or camp in the desert, your choice!
September 5 (thu) � Day 04 � Las Vegas - Fruita, Capital Reef NP (220miles)
September 6 (fri) � Day 05 � Fruita - Moab (140miles). Trail riding in Moab in afternoon.
September 7 (sat) � Day 06 � Moab - Poison Spider Mesa Trail, Golden Spike Trail, Gold Bar Rim Trail, Gemini Bridges Trail (25miles approx.)
September 8 (sun) � Day 7 � Moab - East Tavaputs Plateau - Grrendale Junction (224miles)
September 9 (mon) � Day 8 � Greendale Junction - Bridger-Teton NF - Jackson (248miles)
September 10 (tue) � Day 9 � Jackson - Yellowstone NP - Beaverhead NF - Ennis (210miles)
September 11 (wed) � Day 10 � Ennis - Virgina City - Deerlodge NF - Ovando (210miles)
September 12 (thu) � Day 11 � Ovando - Glacier NP - Canadian Border town of Cardston (205miles)
I don't see a single piece of "off the beaten path" for the first five days, all the way to Moab. From your comment, I am to derive that all the great off the beaten path shit was north of Moab.
Locals, please chime in.
peter |
Peter Matusov (Pmatusov)
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 02:03 pm: |
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Jack, go to Baja. it isn't what it must have been, but you can always lay out your trip so you only cross the highways... like, once in a few days.
peter |
Eric Pena (Evalp)
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 02:12 pm: |
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 |
Erik Olson (Jon)
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 02:15 pm: |
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Peter,
In the interest of time, we kept our daily milage at not less than 220 miles. Each day was about 50 - 60% off of a paved surface. We used logging roads, fire trails and unimproved roads to make it within two weeks time. The schedule you see on the B2B site indicates major "waypoints" that most anyone would be familiar with at first glance without the benefit of topographic maps or software.
So, what you don't see on Day Three, for instance, was the 150+ miles we did on a powerline access track (lovely sand and washboard surfaces!) that runs parallel to Fort Irwin, and subsequent six hours north-east jog through spots like Furnace Creek, Death Valley.
Again, the idea of the trip was to get off of the interstate within acceptable and accomplishable means from point A to point B. To be honest, the biggest complaint was that we all wished we had another week to linger in these incredible locations.
What did you do in September?
e |
Peter Matusov (Pmatusov)
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 02:20 pm: |
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i was having my little fun, too
peter |
Erik Olson (Jon)
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 02:28 pm: |
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Flying into the eye of a hurricane must be a little like posting on Discoweb? LOL
e |
Peter Matusov (Pmatusov)
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 02:34 pm: |
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no, it was actually very boring. i don't get that feeling posting on DW
otoh... one striking contrast with commercial aviation - these guys who fly them are really cool. like, "i'll have the 'fasten seat belts' sign on, just in case... you don't have to be in your seat - if you're not, hold on to something if it gets bumpy". more or less common announcement before penetrating the wall of the eye.
peter |
Peter Carey (Pcarey)
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 02:38 pm: |
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You think the kids from Ennis get teased much?
" Ennis (210miles) "
pwc |
Erik Olson (Jon)
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 03:25 pm: |
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We kept mis-pronouncing Ennis much to the chagrin of the locals. I enjoyed a lovely steak dinner in Ennis, which also sports the nicest KOA-style campground I've ever seen in my life.
Heh, heh - he said "Ennis".
e |
Rob Davison (Pokerob)
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 04:11 pm: |
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i wish i was from Ennis... that would be cool to brag about.
i guess i have Ennis envy
rd |
Kyle
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 07:33 pm: |
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No one is chiming in on Franks question. And the road miles arent that damn easy after that first day. Getting to sleep real late (4AM and shit) in the back of the truck in the middle of nowhere. Coordinating with others and finding your way through the unknown in some spots wears on you after awhile..
Kyle |
mongo
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 07:34 pm: |
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Hey Peter,
I'll go back to "you weren't there"... what a pissing match this could turn into...I'm a retired rescue climber...no, I never flew into a hurricane, but have you ever been dropped off a helo at 19,000' and have to pull a body off a mountain... guess not... So please shut the fuck up about what you do for a living and keep what we talk about here to driving truck and having a good time...by the way, ever been in a upside down md500 in stall? let me know...
Frank |
mongo
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 07:39 pm: |
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Hey Kyle,
I didn't add that babysitting is a PIA also...I love this site by the way, have a good holiday...
Frank |
Kyle
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 07:43 pm: |
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Having run trips up to damn near 10K I know what a bitch it is. I dont care for the B2B but its alot of miles..
Kyle |
mongo
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 07:52 pm: |
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Hey Kyle,
I'm with you on that, too much bs and not enough explorin'...Had a great time with Ho and John in Ca 'bout 2 weeks ago...I get pissed when people compare this to "reality"...
Frank |
Peter Matusov (Pmatusov)
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 08:03 pm: |
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Frank,
goddamit, what a sore loser you are. My answer was to Erik's concrete question on what was i doing in September (guess implying that I live in San Diego and didn't even bother to swing by the gathering). Now, let me tell you for the record, I didn't fly the plane, I wasn't the only person on the plane, but was one of many hundreds who tagged along with their shit over many years. It was interesting and it was fun, but by no means a heroic deed on my part. Nowhere in my post or exchange with Erik there was anything remotely suggesting a personal claim for fame - for anyone but you.
damn that was pathetic. I am happy that I was nowhere close to B2B, although I believe I could have met good people there.
peter
p.s. and i do much better things for living now. |
Kyle
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 08:09 pm: |
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What are you doing now anyway bubbles ? And yeah on that deal you offered..
Kyle |
mongo
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 08:41 pm: |
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Hey Peter,
gravity's a bitch and sometime's you gotta turn right...I really don't need a pissing match, so understand this...I had great time on B2B, that's all...I wasn't with YOU, so don't try and tell what I DID was lame... "you weren't there"...
Frank |
Christopher Dynak (Adtoolco)
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 08:59 pm: |
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This board never ceases to amaze me. |
Peter Matusov (Pmatusov)
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 09:23 pm: |
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damn Kyle, i am sure glad to hear a word from you.
email me what's your take. i nearly dropped the lil bitch on my toe last night, moving it around the garage.
Frank,
i'm not telling you what YOU DID was lame. i don't know what YOU DID and don't give a rat's ass about it. the whole concept is lame to me.
i just realized that i might have come to see the B2B gathering here were i less busy then, wrapping up one job and getting ready for another. glad i didn't, because i have a real difficulty slamming people i personally know.
peter |
mongo
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 09:38 pm: |
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OK Peter, I'm really confused...if you didn't give a rat's ass about it, why make the comments you made? 'nough said...I'll go back to Kyle's statement"
No one is chiming in on Franks question. And the road miles arent that damn easy after that first day. Getting to sleep real late (4AM and shit) in the back of the truck in the middle of nowhere. Coordinating with others and finding your way through the unknown in some spots wears on you after awhile..
Kyle
it's my point, "you weren't there, so you don't know"
Frank |
Peter Matusov (Pmatusov)
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 09:50 pm: |
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okay Frank, i don't want to add insult to an injury.
i don't give a rat's ass about what YOU DID (copying caps from your post) during B2B.
but i couldn't help but answer to your pathetic comments on "So please shut the fuck up about what you do for a living."
if you still can't figure out the difference, you're retarded on top of being a retired rescue climber.
Kyle, where did that quote come from?
peter |
mongo
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 18, 2002 - 12:14 am: |
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hey peter,
i guess i'm just a rat's ass...have you done anything close? please add your experiences to this...seems like there are a lot of folks that want to, but few who have:
#1. you weren't there, you don't know
#2. Pathetic, maybe in your feeble mind...once agian, shut the fuck up unless you have something of value to add to this post...also, your the claiming fame by your post about fyling into a hurricane...not me |
Curtis N (Curtis)
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 18, 2002 - 12:30 am: |
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Peter & Mongo,
C'mon guys - get a room OK?
Seriously Peter, I have had lunch with Frank. He is a class act and seems to be a great guy. It also becomes apparent that he did not get the name Mongo by chance. The dude is big and he knows his adventures. When I met him he was climbing up to the top of tall buldings setting up antennas...when it was 15 degrees out in a heavy snowstorm.
You have to look at this from a left-coast vs. right-coast perspective. The guys out there have to drive a long way for some good adventure. The Dusy and Moab DWeb trips are the best known ones, but they are not exactly open to everyone. People out East need to jump on what they can and enjoy it. Point is, us Westerners have the good shit right out our door and cannot appreciate the necessity to drive thousands of miles to get the good stuff. It has got to be an adventue in themselves because my 3.5 hour trips to Moab and 5-6 hour trips to CO are a bitch on the road.
Although it is not for me, I respect efforts like B2B. They try to cater to everyone while offering a good overall experience. I think Frank is pretty well versed in off road tactics. While he may not have been able to do the best of trails out West, If he says he had a good experience then let that dog lie as it is?
Curtis |
Dan Katzenberger (Dkatzen)
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 18, 2002 - 03:00 am: |
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Jack,
Here's my take:
"Is B2B more of a sight seeing bed and breakfast of a camel trophy reborn? "
It's not either, but you can make it close to one or the other. It's really up to you. Some folks on the B2B chose to stay in nice hotels along the way, eat at fine eateries, and have a nice breakfast served every morning. Others chose to make it a bit more of an adventure by camping every night, eating almost every meal in or around their truck, and always going as out of the way as possible in search of places that most will never go. These two groups have different ideas of what is meant by "Land Rover Adventure," but both have their place in sharing the Land Rover experience.
"Is this hardcore or just a friendly gathering?"
It's not hardcore as people here might define hardcore. And it is a friendly gathering. For me it was a great adventure with a great mix of every weather and terrain. It's not class 5 trails for three weeks straight, but it's not freeway for three weeks either. Temperatures ranged from about 28 to about 119 degrees F. Elevations ranged from sea level to well above 10,000 ft. Terrain ranged from dirt track to slickrock to boggy wooded areas. Side tilts rarely topped 30 or 35 degrees. Front/back tilts rarely topped 45 degrees. A typical day starts at 6:00 or 6:30 am and goes until about Midnight to 1:00 am. We did try to take an hour for lunch every day to give people a short rest from an otherwise full day of driving. This also gave campers a chance to dry out their equipment. What I can say is that everyone, no matter what they drove, how it was decked out, or how skilled they were as a driver was made to feel welcome; and everyone that was there left a better driver than they were when they started the trip.
"Also, anyone know why they recommend you have gas cans INSIDE your vehicle preferrably right behind your seat??!!"
Weight distribution and stability. If you use NATO cans with good rubber seals, there is no hint of gas in the cabin.
I bought a Land Rover because I wanted to go on adventures and go where few others dare to go. I don't care to climb rocks just for the sake of climbing rocks. If there is some place worth going to on the other side of a rock, then I'll go. I don't visit Discoweb much any more because there aren't a lot of people here that share my views. If you want to do Camel Trophy, then do Camel Trophy...(Oh yeah, it no longer exists, does it really?) If you want to climb rocks for the sake of climbing rocks, go to Moab. If you want to spend three weeks doing nothing but driving and talking Rovers, helping out those that are less experienced, standing in 119 degree heat while someone else's Series overheats for the 15th time, going for three or four days straight without a shower, driving to every vista, stopping to photograph moose, and making fun of Sherpa, then give Border to Border a try. It's the best $200 three week vacation that I've ever been on.
Dan Katzenberger
2001 Disco II SE7
B2B #75 |
Erik Olson (Jon)
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 18, 2002 - 12:07 pm: |
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Well stated.
Speaking of Frank, has anyone talked to Motley?
e |
Greg Davis (Gregdavis)
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 18, 2002 - 12:31 pm: |
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I've e-mailed Motley several times and never got a response. I bought his used lockers and wanted to let him know how they were working. Any chance he got sent overseas? |
Eric Pena (Evalp)
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 18, 2002 - 05:24 pm: |
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Dan, I agree with you.
Guys, I just think everyone needs to understand that we all love Land Rovers and that is why we are here typing on this board. We need to remember that we all enjoy Land Rovers different. One might climb rocks just to climb them and some might want to take a Land Rover to beautiful places only a Land Rover can take to to. That may be a class 8 trail or highway/dirt road driving throught the 28 and 119 degree temps.
The point is that we all love Land Rovers and we all know the comradery that exists between us and we need to remember that as we piss all over each other!
Oh, and I might be streaching it here but, that goes for the Freelanders as well; they also have a Land Rover badge on them! |
mongo
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 18, 2002 - 08:02 pm: |
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Hey Eric...I also agree...and there was a Freelander with us on the Trek...
Frank |
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