| Author |
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Clem
| | Posted on Friday, July 19, 2002 - 08:51 pm: | 
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Can anyone pleae direct me to a place where I can get more information on the ETC system? My last vehicle was a 99 TJ in which I had an ARB locker installed in the rear. This set up with an ome suspension system and 10X31's got me just about anywhere I wanted to go here in Texas.
Now that I have two kids I just got a new Disco II so everyone can fit. My question though is how much of an advantage is it to install lockers when you already have a limited slip type system?
I see ARB's offered everywhere for Disco's but I don't see them differentiated (no pun intended) for Diso I's and II's. Are they the same?
I clearly understand the advantages of a locker over a limited slip / traction control type system but how well do they work when you do both? To clarify, does a locker inhibit / harm the ETC system in any way?
Thanks, Clem |
Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco)
| | Posted on Friday, July 19, 2002 - 09:23 pm: |
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Lockers work very well with ETC. While ETC works like limited slip it's not the same. Also lockers without a locking center diff is not worth it and more or less useless. First thing I would do is add a CDL to your D2. With the CDL and ETC you may find that you do not need lockers. Also depending on the year of your D2 you may not be able to even add a CDL without major work.
Al
'99 D2 w/CDL & stuff |
Clif Ashley (Cta586)
| | Posted on Friday, July 19, 2002 - 09:24 pm: |
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Really good question. Wish I knew the answer, haha. Sorry. Someone will help you out. |
clembo
| | Posted on Saturday, July 20, 2002 - 12:44 am: |
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How would I add a CDL (center differential lock???) to my 2002 Disco? I did'nt have a center lock on my jeep but having the ARB in the rear did make a big difference! Especially in very deep soft sand. Why do I get the feeling everyone knows something that I don't? |
Will Roeder (Will_Roeder)
| | Posted on Saturday, July 20, 2002 - 12:47 am: |
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i am pretty sure that you cant add the CDL to the 02's..... |
Ho Chung (Ho)
| | Posted on Saturday, July 20, 2002 - 12:56 am: |
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clem, have you already reached the disco's limit?
go play with it man, then worry about what you need. |
Curtis N (Curtis)
| | Posted on Saturday, July 20, 2002 - 01:03 am: |
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No doubt Ho. He can't add CDL anyway with '02 so trying any type of traction device may be as much a step backwards as forwards. CDL is where it all begins.
Clem - you did have CDL on your Jeep in a sense. Jeeps do not use a Center Diff as they are part time 4WD. Every time you placed the rig in 4X4L/H it effectively locked the transfer case.
With Rovers being a full time system, they use a Center Diff to keep the rig from bucking in turns on pavement. I am not going to go into the advantages of a CDL because you can't do it. '02 was the only model year Disco that was produced with no way to lock the CD.
That being said, go drive and enjoy what you have. It will go far.
Curtis |
clemb
| | Posted on Saturday, July 20, 2002 - 01:17 am: |
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Wow, so how much force can be diverted from front to back or vice versa. Is 2002 the ONLY year this was the case? No wonder I got a good deal on it.
Responding to Ho I have takin it out and had fun with it. The little ETC lite came on several tiems while I was driving in soft sand, frankly my jeep with my rear locked handled better than the DII. What Im hearing from you guys is "chill and enjoy what I"ve got".
The problem is I"m a gear queer and I just can't leave well enough alone. |
Ho Chung (Ho)
| | Posted on Saturday, July 20, 2002 - 01:28 am: |
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a ha!
well then, the first thing to do is to check that your disco is indeed castrated. if so, try to get an older model transfer case.  yeah, i know, pain. but thats' where happiness will begin.
http://www.discoweb.org/cdlsolenoid/solenoid02.jpg
the nipple between the 3 bolts, thats' the nipple that you need in order to enable CDL. it's located on top of the transfer case passanger side. you should be able to barely reach it from underneath.
then either install the CDL lever or the solenoid activated version of the CDL.
after CDL, get a pair of TTs (truetracs)
or even ARB lockers. those will not only enhance traction, but will be much stronger than the sad stock diffs.
and yes, the little jeep will kick some ass. |
Curtis N (Curtis)
| | Posted on Saturday, July 20, 2002 - 01:34 am: |
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How much force? I guess theorectically all of it, but that would be highly unlikely. It would also be not good since power will go to the slipping axle.
The DS2 with ETC is a dog in sand. There is no other medium that it just plain sucks in except sand. That, and watch backing down steep hills with no CDL.
You did not get a good deal because of lack of CDL. It is a non-issue to 99.995% of Disco buyers. You may have got a good deal because of the revamped '03 model.
If you want to tinker, try a lift and tires and work on bumpers, winch and the like. In order to add CDL you will need a new T-box. That will set you back $2000+.
Take Ho's advie. Go have some fun. They are great rigs stock.
Curtis
DS2 w/CDL,TT's, lift, & a few other goodies |
Ho Chung (Ho)
| | Posted on Saturday, July 20, 2002 - 01:40 am: |
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curtis man, clem here is after the real deal stuff: drivetrain.
so, the task in hand is to locate the damn nipple.
VIVA CDL!!!!
 |
Curtis N (Curtis)
| | Posted on Saturday, July 20, 2002 - 01:41 am: |
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To add to Ho's later advice, you will ne an LT230SE. Make note of the "SE" as it is for the DS2. The DS1 uses and LT230, but a different model.
For what you will spend to find and install the transfer case, then to add the TT's, then lift and tires...you might just want to go buy an old Jeep or Suzuki Samurai and make a dedicated trail machine you can tow to the trail behind the Disco.
Then again...you might be able to convince a bone yard to trade you your perfectly good and "almost new" castrated LT230SE for a '99-'00 SE for little or nothing.
Curtis |
Curtis N (Curtis)
| | Posted on Saturday, July 20, 2002 - 01:43 am: |
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LOL Ho!
Isn't this where you say: "Just do it!"
Curtis |
Ho Chung (Ho)
| | Posted on Saturday, July 20, 2002 - 01:45 am: |
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curtis, clem just sold a jeep. LOL
clem, check out the links below:
http://www.discoweb.org/cdl.htm
http://www.expeditionexchange.com/cdl/
http://www.discoweb.org/cdlsolenoid.htm |
mongo
| | Posted on Saturday, July 20, 2002 - 01:58 am: |
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ok kids...
My DII has TT's front and rear, cdl and 4.11 gears and it ROCKS. ETC w/ CDL engaged is awesome! However, in deep whale shit, I disable the ABS with a switch, which also disables the ETC and the CDL w/the TT's also ROCK's. Both ways it kicks butt. I'll be adding HD half shafts and a new rear drive shaft also from GBR shortly...
Frank |
Ho Chung (Ho)
| | Posted on Saturday, July 20, 2002 - 02:05 am: |
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yep, CDL and a pair of TTs.
you know, if greg had dual TTs, he could use the plate DR TITS
LMAO!!! |
Curtis N (Curtis)
| | Posted on Saturday, July 20, 2002 - 02:15 am: |
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Frank,
You ever making that trip back to SLC? The wheelin' is great right now.
Curtis |
Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco)
| | Posted on Saturday, July 20, 2002 - 02:55 am: |
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Clem, You'll need to learn to use the ETC to your advantage. Sometimes when you feel like the right thing to do is back off the gas you actually have to give it a little more to get the ETC kicking. Don't feel bad it's actually some of the '01 and all of the '02 Disco II's that lack the CDL. But should something unfortunate happen to your transfer case while under warrante you might be able to get a CDL equipted LT230SE. |
clem
| | Posted on Saturday, July 20, 2002 - 11:41 am: |
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Thanks for all the info guys. I'm bummed. I'll still have fun with it but I sure wish I knew that before I bought it! Kinda makes me want to trade it for a DI.
Cheers. Clem |
Eric Pena (Evalp)
| | Posted on Saturday, July 20, 2002 - 11:58 am: |
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Or you could get a '00 Disco II. They all have CDL and get a CDL lever. |
clem
| | Posted on Saturday, July 20, 2002 - 12:14 pm: |
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The more I think about it the more I feel like I'm the one that castrated. Just so I'm clear let me create a visual. I'm driving down the beach just past mile marker 45 on North Padre Island. I come to a drop off that's about a foot high into a tidal pool. It looks okay so I go for it thinking it's only about 20' to the other side. My two front wheels sink imediately in the soft sand and spin freely. At this point does it mean that I have no power to my rear wheels at all? That is really lame! Was there any reason that LR did this other than cost? |
Ho Chung (Ho)
| | Posted on Saturday, July 20, 2002 - 12:24 pm: |
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your frojnt wheels sink and spin. then ETC kicks in and along with the ABS, hits the brakes on the front tires, making the center diff send power to the rear.
but by then, you've already dug your front tires way deep in there. |
Ho Chung (Ho)
| | Posted on Saturday, July 20, 2002 - 12:28 pm: |
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and thats' why when the ETC first became available we would say ETC sucks. LOL
but over time, i've come to like it more and more. |
niall forbes (Forbesn)
| | Posted on Saturday, July 20, 2002 - 12:35 pm: |
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So the non-CDL DIIs don't have a visocus coupling like the Rangies? Just an open diff?!?!?! WTF? |
Ho Chung (Ho)
| | Posted on Saturday, July 20, 2002 - 12:39 pm: |
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niall, that is correct, all because when disco2 first came out, and LR was raving about the new ETC thing, people were believers. and now the good ole CDL is gone.
so, a question to the old timers, ETC still rules? |
Ho Chung (Ho)
| | Posted on Saturday, July 20, 2002 - 12:50 pm: |
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here's a post from sometime ago by an LR salesman, anyone remember the ole days?:
Quote:ETC is the best for me!! I drive my rig to work. I climb mountains, run mud, scale rocks, & run logging roads at breakneck speeds. ETC will get me anywhere that the rest of my rig (suspension, approach & departure, breakover, tires) will go.
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Mel A. (Krawlrovr)
| | Posted on Saturday, July 20, 2002 - 12:52 pm: |
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Clem,
I would do what Curtis suggested, go to some junk yard and find a wrecked 99' to early 01' Disco II with its transfer case still intact. I would imagine that it would cost $500-$600. You can probably trade in your 02' transfer case for an old one with no penalty.
Ho,
Couldn't he put a Quaife ATF center diff in his 02' and have an LSD that can be locked? |
Ho Chung (Ho)
| | Posted on Saturday, July 20, 2002 - 12:57 pm: |
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mel, thats' a great idea. QUAIFE!!!
but i think you'll still need the linkage from the disco1 to make that quaife lock. |
Gil Stevens (Gil)
| | Posted on Saturday, July 20, 2002 - 01:19 pm: |
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also remember that ETC is effectively useless under 1200 rpms on a DII.. if you notice, it wont kick in until that point. Clem, tell your dealer that the tbox whines like mad and it drives you insane and there is no way that a brand new rig should make that kind of noise.. they will replace it, then if you have good relations with your service dept, ask if they can replace it with a cdl ready tbox. They might not do it, but its worth a shot. I have an 02 DII here with less than 3000 miles and we are on the 3rd box becuase the customer complains that it whines... could be worth a shot. |
Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco)
| | Posted on Saturday, July 20, 2002 - 01:20 pm: |
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Anyone know what ZF transmission is in the 2002 D2's? I remember there was a rumor a long time ago about the CDL going away due to a new transmission. I don't think that rumor was true but if it is you may not be able to swap x-fer case.
On the upside. One of the actual real world improvements for the LT230SE is that it's been uprated (over the D1 case) to handle more torque. |
niall forbes (Forbesn)
| | Posted on Saturday, July 20, 2002 - 01:44 pm: |
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Find someone with some gears out of a transfer box that they don't want. Break off some large chunks and throw these in your transfer box. Drive around, grenade your tbox, and have it replaced under warranty ;-) |
clem
| | Posted on Saturday, July 20, 2002 - 05:55 pm: |
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Thanks for all the info, when I come to that hypothetical drop off on Padre Island I guess I'll just hold my breath, pucker, gun it and hope for the best. I love my disocovery but I think I'm going to miss my locked jeep.
Cheers. |
Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco)
| | Posted on Saturday, July 20, 2002 - 06:03 pm: |
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Clem, FWIW I've done a bit of beach driving in the Outer Banks before putting in the CDL and didn't have any problems as long as I aired down. Even in a situation you mentioned but be careful. |
Curtis N (Curtis)
| | Posted on Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 03:00 am: |
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clem,
ETC will work in the situation you mentioned. I have seen ETC do some pretty cool things. It can get confuzed though when all four tires are on a slippery surface. It is pretty funny to watch it then. It kinda cycles though all four wheels while the rig goes nowhere.
Still - c'mon man. South Padre? I lived in Texas until two years ago and there is not a lot there that will stop a stock DS2
Curtis |
clem
| | Posted on Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 03:47 pm: |
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Curtis, I don't think there is anything at South Padre that would stop a yugo. I was refering to North Padre, and it was a hypothetical. Having lived in Texas I'm sure you know that there can be miles of mud and sand here. It's so flat that on a clear day you can see that back of your head. It's all about traction! Even on terrain that looks like a field open diffs will get you stuck faster than you can blink. So far I'm pleased with the ETC I'm just dissapointed that LR eliminated the CDL.
Thanks again. |
Curtis N (Curtis)
| | Posted on Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 06:59 pm: |
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Yeah, I agree. CDL is back though...you just got caught at a bad time. I would seriously research the LT230SE from a '99 to early '01 and do a transplant.
North Padre is easy sand also. I think it gets a little hairy at Big Shell right in between the two. Texas mud is gumbo city. That stuff gums up the tread and will not come out.
Curtis |
Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco)
| | Posted on Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 08:06 pm: |
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" Texas mud is gumbo city. That stuff gums up the tread and will not come out."
Sounds like Virginia red clay. I actually was driving around in that stuff with about 2" over the tread coating the tires and another 2" sticking out from the side. I looked like I had giant rubber bands on that were wider than my tires. The ETC did very well. The situation you need to be careful about is when you have little forward momentum and two wheels on the same axle with no (or minimal) traction. Good examples of this is the failed hill climb or climbing a steep hill with a large wet tree across the trail or come off a rock and have the rear end hang up on the hitch in such a way that the rear wheels are off the ground. But as long as you can keep momentum in these situations you can push through. And if you get your axles crossed you'll be amazed at the ETC as it takes you across as if all 4 wheels were planted on the ground. |
Greg Davis
| | Posted on Monday, July 22, 2002 - 11:29 am: |
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Clem, I might have a lead for you on a low mileage t-case. A guy near me has a rolled DSII that he's parting out. I'll find out the year for you. Shoot me an e-mail.
CDL is the ONLY way to go. I've had mine for over a year now and it makes all the difference in the world. After that, I would go with lockers. Just put in TT up front and Detroit in the rear. Used 'em for the first time this weekend.
With CDL and lockers, the only limit is tires and driver. People were VERY surprised at where my rig went this weekend. Keep the faith, man. There is hope for your ride. As far as the Quaiffe goes, VERY expensive. You could swap t-cases for what that diff would cost. |
Curtis N (Curtis)
| | Posted on Monday, July 22, 2002 - 11:38 am: |
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I don't think the Quiafe would work without a T-box swap anyways. It is just a diff and still relies on the locking nub on the top of the t-box.
Greg, glad to hear that you are using that new diff setup!
Curtis |
chu
| | Posted on Monday, July 22, 2002 - 12:06 pm: |
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I still like the idea of trashing the current Tbox and having the dealer install a different one. Pretty much like what Curtis did with his rear diff.
chu |
Michael Noe (Noee)
| | Posted on Monday, July 22, 2002 - 01:29 pm: |
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Greg:
The obvious question: Where did you go this weekend? Sounds like you hit some areas you would not have gone before you got your "lockers". |
Greg Davis
| | Posted on Monday, July 22, 2002 - 03:09 pm: |
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Michael, I was back at Uwharrie. Very dusty in the AM, heavy downpours after lunch. Made the rocks VERY slippery. I was with a group of mostly D-90's, and I think they all had ARB's. Also along were one Rangie and one XD, both with open diffs.
All the vehicles made the trails by either taking different lines, or working REALLY hard. The advantage of the lockers this weekend was my rig just kind of walked up areas that the open diff rigs struggled on. Can't say the lockers took me where I couldn't go before, but they sure made it easier on the equipment.
As far as the ETC with lockers, I think I only remember the ETC kicking in about four or five times. Each time it activated, it would cause the TT to engage and the light would then go out. The TT just works really well when combined with the ETC. The Detroit's there regardless, so the ETC doesn't affect it. |
Ho Chung (Ho)
| | Posted on Monday, July 22, 2002 - 03:11 pm: |
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ETC + TT... isn't that a beautiful thing? |
p m
| | Posted on Monday, July 22, 2002 - 04:21 pm: |
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no Ho...
the rangie's VC + TT + TT... and all of them lockable!
peter |
Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco)
| | Posted on Monday, July 22, 2002 - 04:25 pm: |
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So is the new Rangie equipted with a VC or open center diff? |
p m
| | Posted on Monday, July 22, 2002 - 04:28 pm: |
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dunno about the new one.
the old one's VC rocks, though i wouldn't mind to be able to lock it.
peter |
chu
| | Posted on Monday, July 22, 2002 - 08:12 pm: |
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Yeah, ETC + TT is a great combo.
Although I can't say that I can go places where I couldn't before. I think that's somewhat of a misconception. Like Greg said, it just makes it a lot easier with lockers. Smoother and less drama. |
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