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BillBail
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 04:40 am: | 
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So, when I bought my rover I had heard all these great stories about dealerships that sold rovers. They seemed to really care about being developing a relationship with owners-- teaching them how to care for and drive their vehicles, holding annual events and such. Having onwed my disco for almost three years now I have found nothing but the complete opposite of that to be true. Everytime I walk into my local Seattle dealership I get the funny feeling that I'm about to be screwed... the latest issue has really got me though...
About a week and a half ago, while I was on a road trip my check engine light came on-- knowing that this could be kind of bad, I immediately called the dealership as soon as I got back and informed them of the problem. The service guy told me that if the light wasn't flashing that it wasn't an urgent issue and that they didn't have to see the vehicle soon (he told me it was probably an O2 sensor or gas cap code-- which seemed to make sense). They scheduled my appt. for Monday over a week later. When I brought my car in they informed me that the catalytic converter needed to be replaced for $2500 and he wasn't sure how long the warranty was for that part...
Being a discoweb.org patron, I knew that I had seen info on this on the site-- sure enough I found that it was an 8/80,000 mile warranty. So, I printed out the information for the dealership (just in case they couldn't figure it out) and took it in.
First, the service dept. informed me that my 96 disco was out of warranty because it was just a hair over 8 years old. Hmm.. I'm pretty sure that 2002-1996 = 6yrs... I'll forgive them that one. After that, the service guys scrambled about for the next half hour and then informs me that my car has 80,200 miles on it and because of that it can't be warrantied... In the period that since they scheduled my appt. and I brought the car in I had rolled over the "magic" 80,000 mile mark! When I told him that the dealership had urged me not to worry about the light and to bring it in on their schedule he seemed sympathetic...
So, up the chain the issue goes.. now I'm talking to the service manager. The manager, calls LRNA, and eventually works out some sort of "deal" whereby if I can prove to him that I have done my 60k and 72k services that he would warranty the repairs for me. I informed him that those services have nothing to do with the coverter and that I have maintained my vehicle above and beyond what most would do (K&N filter, upgraded plugs, wires etc.) At that point he explains to me all the issues he has doing this kind of service. I bunch of politics between him and Land Rover that I really don't need to know-- he's worried that if he does the repair that Land Rover won't re-imburse him. So, I tell him I will call LR if it will help....
The next morning I call the LRNA 1-800 number and have a chat with them. First off, they're rude. They don't know why I'm calling them and seem eager to get off the phone with me. When I explain my situation, there's no sympathy-- nothing but a yep, sorry about that-- too bad you didn't think that the service engine light might be related to your catalytic converter and that you should have watched that 80k mark (despite the advice of my dealer). When I asked, even if I had known, should I have not driven my car for a week, she said, "of course!" without even blinking an eye! So, eager to get off the phone with me, she informs me that she'll call the dealership and discuss the issues with me and let me know what they decide...
I get a call later that day informing me that my car has 82,800 miles and that they will not warranty the part (hmm... where did the extra 600 miles come from? Sorry, I can't allow for two simple numbers mistakes  And so the saga continues...
I suppose I'll have to call back tomorrow and give them an opportunity to re-evaluate their decision, but I can't help but express how disappointed I am with the service of my local dealership (nothing new!) and now LRNA. I've really enjoyed owning my Disco, but with this kind of track-record, I can't imagine myself ever buying another rover again. Those shiny new H2's are starting to look better and better...
Hope ya'll have had better experiences with LRNA-- any advice you guys have would be welcome!
-BillBail |
Brad N
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 07:13 am: |
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That really sucks ass. Tha is very unfortunate that your local dealer & LRNA are dicks.
Get a second opinion onteh check engine fault. The fault for the cats can be caused by something else. The dealer might not be telling you everything.(most likey). I had the same problem with teh truck at 42000miles. THe problem was not the cats but something was making the truck run hoter than normal and one of the O2 sensors was messed up. I had a put an additive in the radiator to stop/prevent a leak.(that was not a good move). I have not had a problem since. Also I have heard of that type of fault being intermittent. Hafe them reset the light and see if it comes back on. If it is indeed the cats, do the work you self. Do you here a rattleing noise in the cats? New cats from Atlantic British are $700.
I was an episode of Car & Driver, they test drove the new H2. Pritty sweet, comes with locking diffs as standard.
good luck |
Paul D. Morgan (V22guy)
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 07:19 am: |
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Which Dealer or Location? |
billbail
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 07:29 am: |
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Eastside (Bellevue) dealership in Seattle... |
Peter Carey (Pcarey)
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 08:36 am: |
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Bill,
I had just the opposite experience with the same dealership just earlier this month. I have my own OBDII set up and got the cat code and reset it twice. I then drove to Idaho (Couer D'Alene) and it came on again. I called the Spokane dealership (owned by the same people that own Seattle, Bellevue and Portland) and they said it should be ok until I got back to Seattle. They also never asked about mileage, so this seems to be a common lack of thuroughness (sp).
After resetting it twice more I called Eastside and they didn't have an appointment for another week, while I was on vacation. SO I scheduled for when I got back. Took it in and talked to Andy who was knowledgable of the warranty, and never asked about what work had been done on it.
Beyond that my feedback on the expereince is mixed. He called later in the day saying yes it was the cats and they would be replaced. It should be ready tomorrow morn. Tomorrow morning I call and it will be ready later that day. Later that day I called and it will be ready in the morn because I had a skid plate and some of the bolts were rusty but they were going to "internalize" that cost of getting the plate off. Next morning I call and it will be ready that day. Finally get a call around 4:15pm saying it's ready. I say great and asked for the shuttle to pick me up in downtown Bellevue. I waited until 5:15 with no call back and started walking there.
I got there in about 20 minutes and walk up to the counter sweating (it was at least 85 that day which is more than a Seattle native is used to) and ask for the car. He (being the guy closest to the glass door and not Andy) says they'll bring it around. After seeing the shuttle driver hangning out in the lobby and the shuttle just sitting there, I said I'd like the key and I know where it is in the lot andI'll grab it myself. He tried to have someone bring it around but I insisted on the key since I wasn't going to wait on them any more. Signed my paperwork and got out of there. The good part was they put SS bolts back on the skid plate.
That being said, I had a experince simillar to yours with Jeep with the radio. CD stopped playing at 35K and I didn't take it in until 36,500, right over the mark. My own fault and they wanted $700 for it, even though when I called before they said it was a known problem and they just replace it and send it back to Jeep. I decided listening to the radio was OK and eventually the damn thing started working again on its own. They didn't seem the least bit interested in when it stopped working, since that would mean the would have to trust me. They cared how many were on it when it rolled in the door. I think most all dealerships are like that.
This is why a feedback section on Dealerships/Vendors would be handy on Dweb.
pwc
PS AARGGHHH!!! The smily face is broken!!!!  |
Peter Carey (Pcarey)
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 08:38 am: |
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Jeremy Katka (Jkatka)
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 04:10 pm: |
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Bill,
Sorry to hear about your bad experience. All three WA dealerships are owned by the same "group." I keep on hearing that it is new owners and that alot of the mechanics and such have left for greener pastures. I would recommend buying the manual for your truck and offering beer to local discowebbers to give you a hand on the big stuff.
JK |
Peter Carey (Pcarey)
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 06:51 pm: |
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You're suck a Ho (not in the discoweb sense) Katka.
pwc |
Jeremy Katka (Jkatka)
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 07:36 pm: |
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? |
Peter Carey (Pcarey)
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 10:13 pm: |
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That should have been "such a ho". I swear this site scrambles people's spelling on purpose.
Such a ho, as in "offering beer to local discowebbers...". Just come out and say you're for sale for beer next time. 
pwc |
Ron
| | Posted on Thursday, August 29, 2002 - 01:46 am: |
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LRNA and cats is a sore spot. In order to technically have cats covered you need to 1. fail an emissions test and 2. have appropriate codes. LRNA had to recall a ton of RR cats, and does not like paying 2000 on an 8 year old truck and owner care is not going to be sympathetic
They can also screw you in that you do have to have proof of service. If a 30 or 60k was not done then it could precipite cat damage so they can get you that way too.
Once you are over 80k there is no hope. If you knew you were close you should have stopped driving or told the guy it needed to get in asap.
Ron |
muskyman
| | Posted on Thursday, August 29, 2002 - 08:56 am: |
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i would not be so fast to give up
the cat thing is a federal EPA regulation if at anytime before 80k the manufactor or its agent(dealer) becomes aware of a potential problem they are suposed to replace it.
get a name and card from someone at EPA and launch a threat over there bow...land rover,BMW,and MB are so shell shocked over these cat issues they will run to fix it.
also the cat is an independeant emmissions devise by definition to the EPA . the only listed "verification for coverage" is the reduced size filler neck on the fuel door
if its intact and you can prove you brought the fault to there attention under 80k you have a case.
this is not a LR thing its a all cars thing |
ROBERT
| | Posted on Thursday, August 29, 2002 - 12:17 pm: |
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BILL DID YOU GET A COPY OF THE REPAIR ORDER? IT IS SUPPOSED TO HAVE THE MILEAGE IN AND MILEAGE OUT ON IT. THAT SOLVES ALL THE PROBLEMS DOESN'T IT? |
username
| | Posted on Sunday, September 29, 2002 - 03:00 am: |
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I had experience with Pioneer Centre in San Diego, CA where I have a expansion tank leakage on a 94 Disco. I took it to the dealer, come back next morning to get the car but after a ten miles my disco was smoking and the car was leaking with coolant so bad. Took it back to the dealer again and they said that the hoses are old so they replaced it. I'm so patient with them as I ask them what don't they check it the first time if the radiator hose need replacement. So I came back the next morning, after a few miles of driving the disco overheated, so I took it back again and they say that my head gasket was blown and it need a new oil pump because of the cranking noise in the engine which it turns out a loose heatshield after I pointed out to the dealer. I paid the dealer for all the mess for $1500.00. Never like their service after all. I wrote a complaint from the BBB and never trusted their service anymore. Luckily I meet a trusted mechanic in Temecula that specialized with Brits cars (Jags and Rovers) with awesome customer service and quality work. Remember if you take your car to the dealer you're just another number. |
bryan
| | Posted on Sunday, September 29, 2002 - 04:47 am: |
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The poor service Bill spoke of with the Seattle/Eastside dealerships seems to have carried over to spokane. That's where I had my recent troubles....two weeks of my rig not running because the tech didn't plug the TPS in after he changed out my valley gasket. I remember when I first bought my "certified" DI, they treated me like I had just purchased $70K RR and gave me the same "We like to have a relationship with our customers....customer service is our number one priority". Within the first 3 months of certified warranty they had to replace a water pump, thermostat, lower radiator hose, leaking main seal, both trans. cooler lines, as well as adjust the idle so it wouldn't die at the stop light, and tighten up engine mounts. They never did do anything about the noise coming from the top of my charcoal canister. After the "certified" warranty expired, the service went in the $hitter for me. I mentioned to the GM (4th new guy in the 2.5 years I owned my rig) that paying for the car wasn't bad, it was the repairs that were killing me. He had the nerve to tell me "My recent troubles were an indication of how well I or the PO had maintained the vehicle". I had to laugh because the PO had a service stamp for every 7500 miles up to the point when I bought it. I had every 7500 service as well, all the above warranty work and another $3500 in repairs. My wife had a run in with a service tech over some electical problems we had last year. He told her "These rigs are meant to be driven hard and in rough conditions like climbing hills and driving through water. If you're using it as a grocery-go-getter, electrical problems like this are bound to show up".
Another thing I've noticed recently is that the line on my invoice which says: Customer herby acknowledges an estimate of $xxxx, always seems to be within a few dollars of my bill. I know that by law they can't charge you for repairs (without your approval) in excess of 10% of their estimate. What gets me is that I was recently quoted (over the phone) $500 for some work I needed done. I dropped of the rig, was never given an estimate sheet to sign, when I returned my bill was $825 and the invoice stated customer acknowleges an estimate of $800. They decided to change out a top hose, serp belt and valve cover gaskets while I was away. The other thing that pi$$ed me off that day, is that they said drop the rig off at 8:00 and it should be done around 1:00. They didn't start on it until after 11:00, because they dropped everything to do some "walk-in" service for a guy who was having problems with the 2003 RR he had purchased from the Seattle dealership day before.
Enough of my rant, I could go on for days. BTW does anyone have the 800 number to LRNA customer service. I always read on my service invoice that I may be recieving a customer satisfaction survey, for some unknown reason they never seem to call. Anybody ever get one of those calls? I bet they are few and far between, probably saved for RR owners. |
M. K. Watson (Lrover94)
| | Posted on Sunday, September 29, 2002 - 08:56 am: |
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"Once you are over 80k there is no hope. If you knew you were close you should have stopped driving or told the guy it needed to get in asap."
ron being two hundred miles over the 80k limit and being denied warranty service is bullshit, its not like the profit margin LRNA or the dealership is going to be ate up by good customer service. it appears as if the dealer or LRNA just bent the guy over. if they didnt want to pay the whole bill they could have atleast came to a comprise. the good thing to report is that this behavior is not limited to Land Rover alone, horror stories of poor post purchase service by dealerships and their sponsoring companies could fill a warehouse. the best advice i could give anyone who has had a problem with a dealership or manft. is to keep after them, bug the crap out of them until you atleast get some satification!!!!!!
mr. carey has a good idea!
mike w |
Tom Hyslip (007)
| | Posted on Sunday, September 29, 2002 - 10:11 am: |
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Bill,
If you think it would help you can put some pressure on the dealer and LRNA from the EPA. You can use my name and title, Thomas Hyslip, Resident Agent in Charge, Raleigh Resident Office, EPA - Criminal Investigation Division. I will look into the reg / law, and if they are violating it, I will call an Agent in the Seattle Office and have them stop by the dealer
Let me know.
Tom |
Jon Bowers (Jonbowers7)
| | Posted on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 12:45 pm: |
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It always amazes me the "image" that dealers like to portray. Like we're all friends on the same adventure or something. Behind the look is a bunch of slimy car salesmen like most other brand dealers. Which I think is a shame, considering the LR image and the fact that most of us are proud to own what we feel is the best off road vehicle bar none. Then to be treated like that kinda puts a bad taste in your mouth. My examples: A few years back my wife's 4.6HSE blew the alternator. Well, 1200.00+ and we were back on the road. A while later, I bought a 97 D90SW for $47k, and about 6 months later had to sell it due to my exwife clamping onto my leg (and wallet) like a pitbull. The dealer said they really didn't want it back, but said they'd do me a favor and take it off my hands for $31k. Thanks for the favor. I only go to the dealer for service that my local guy can't do. As everyone knows, short of the RR, these rigs are not that complicated. I have a local euro garage that is awesome beyond any dealer, they are very attentive and are actually LR enthusiasts, too. My advice is the same, do some searching for a good local garage, stay way away from the dealer unless you have to, then when you have to go, cross your fingers that they won't bend you over too far.....just my .02...
JB |
bellevue
| | Posted on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 03:55 pm: |
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Bill,
I have a DII, which was purchased at the Bellevue dealership & has been in the shop over 25 times. Most of the problems are their fault. They break, scratch, and dent the disco while left there. Also, it takes about 3 weeks to get an appointment & never have the part in stock.
Due to their careless attitude, I will NOT purchase another Rover while living in WA. I hope Word of mouth will fix things w/ them.
Also, Thank God, the 3foot Chip T left...what an asshole. |
bryan
| | Posted on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 04:36 pm: |
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bellevue,
Do you happen to have any contact information for the owner(s) of the Washington state franchises (please email if so)? I know it used to be the Brotherton Automotive group, but heard they sold off. I'd like to write the new owners a letter regarding my "Customer Satisfaction" and let them know that they will no longer be recieving any business from me. They probably won't care about losing your and my business, but as you said, hopefully the word of mouth will catch up with them. |
bellevue
| | Posted on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 04:50 pm: |
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Correct, Brotherton sold the dealership earlier in the year. I spoke w/ Biff Brotherton about the problems I was having. He referred me to Chip and Chip stated, we did all we can, I advise to go to Landrover Seattle. Out of all my friends/discussions with LandRover owners in Wash, 90% are not happy.
Here is the contact info:
Landrover Eastside
12223 Bel-Red Rd
Bellevue, WA 98005
Steve Woody - General Manager
www.landrovernw.com |
JB
| | Posted on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 05:50 pm: |
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[email protected]
Above is the GM's email address according to the the LRNW website, and he wants to hear from us. Let's all take 2 minutes and send him an email letting him know what we think..good or bad... If these guys are not doing their jobs maybe they need to be replaced... if they have done their job then they have nothing to worry about and this is an issue to be sent to LRNA as well... anybody have an LRNA email address to copy the email to [email protected]
on ???
Come on, send the email, you may be the next one getting poor service... |
teedyk
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 15, 2002 - 07:44 pm: |
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I have a 02 disco with allighment problems.
10 calls to lrna.
Dont feel bad they suck hired a lawyer |
Kile
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 08:06 pm: |
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To bad we cannot all file a class action |
Jack Quinlan (Jsq)
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 10:11 pm: |
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Rovah dealerships are always hit or miss. The Mainline Philadelphia one is atrotcious and Pioneer Centres in San Diego has been great for me. The former completely hosed my friend time and again taking advantage of her ignorance and wealth. The latter shows me how to repair things myself so I don't have to pay for it. One special Pioneer service manager goes above and beyond and will give me tech advice and discount rates. He really is a godsend. Not at all like my BMW mechanic who tries to Break My Wallet. |
Mark Albrecht
| | Posted on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 01:14 pm: |
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Bill -- you should start the formal complaint process to have LRNA take you seriously -- right now you're just an upset guy who can be shrugged off. You need to start at the BBB. Keep in mind that you technically exceeded the warranty mileage limits at the time the vehicle was presented for repair. That being said, you need to establish that you detrimentally relied upon the advise of your service tech. and LRNA information when deciding to continue using the vehicle and in setting the service appointment. Try to locate some type of document that indicates your mileage after the initial phone call and before you hit 80,000 (perhaps a motel/hotel parking form, oil change, smog check, etc.) -- this will support your statement of when the issue arose.
Part of the Seattle/Bellvue problem with the dealership is the lack of competition. They know you're not going to drive to Portland or Vancouver for repairs (although Vancouver is only 90 minutes away and they have good hotels and fun things to do -- I mean Vancouver, BC); so they can be a-holes. That's one good thing about the LA area -- multiple LR dealerships with different owners -- service actually counts.
Good luck with the BBB process. |
John
| | Posted on Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 01:49 am: |
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I can't believe the bullshit they're putting ya'll through up there in WA. I'm from NC and bought my 95 disco at Land Rover Greensboro, and they've always been good to me. Mine was certified, and in that year it had something like 10 grand worth of warranty work done to (too much to even begin to list). I took mine to the dlrshp yesterday to get some work done, and I thought I was going to have to pay out the ass for a new alternator and some other minor things. But the service manager pretty much told me that I was crazy if I let them do any work on the car because what needed to be done I could do myself cheaper. He had one of the techs show me the steps for replaceing the alternator, and I was on my way home in 30 mins, and not a dime poorer. I agree with Jack that dealerships are hit and miss. Hope ya'll can get things straight. |
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