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Old 01-12-2019, 01:50 PM
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Looks like Denny is officially hanging it up. Too bad he waited so long to sell and most people have no idea who HLC Fab is.
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Old 01-13-2019, 10:44 AM
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What’s he selling....debt and obligations? LOL
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Old 01-13-2019, 11:37 AM
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Odd to outline your indebtedness in a sales pitch but it’s transparent I guess. Not sure I ever got the full scoop on what all happened. Bought some sliders from Denny years ago and always thought his products were top notch
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Old 01-13-2019, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Howski View Post
Odd to outline your indebtedness in a sales pitch but it?s transparent I guess. Not sure I got the full scoop on what all happened a few years back. Bought some sliders from Denny years ago and always thought his products were top notch
They were slick as snot on a doorknob. That guy knew his shit. You could drag your nuts across any of his designs and never hit a snag.

Too bad it's too late. I tried and tried and tried to get up with that guy over time about the designs, to no avail. We'd decided to collaborate a bit, and then a little while later it was like he got sucked into a black hole.

Cheers,

Kennith
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Old 01-13-2019, 03:42 PM
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I know Denny was doing automated gates and such along with the Rover fab. Like many others. I reached out to him years ago to build me a front bumper. His prices kept getting higher for the same product for no obvious reason. I got a bad feeling and walked away. Come to find out he took a few peoples money and didnt deliver.
Glad I walked when I did. I had no idea the business was still around. I heard he had/has a lot of personal issues going on.
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Old 01-13-2019, 05:12 PM
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Its always "personal issues" when someone fabricating parts in the Rover community steals people's money.
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Old 01-13-2019, 06:16 PM
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I heard personal issues, too. I think the problem is most of these Rover fab guys do it part time. When shit hits the fan side gigs are the first to go. Not saying I condone stealing money, only that I get why it happens.
His products were nice though. Everything was well thought out and fabricated. And he was doing custom stuff no one else was.
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Originally Posted by discostew View Post
No matter how hard you stir it you won't make chocolate ice cream out of a bucket of shit
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Old 01-14-2019, 11:48 AM
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I've got his front bumper and sliders. Great products. The front bumper survived a 30mph crash (daughter t-boned a car that ran a stop sign, the car was totaled) with just some scratched paint.

I was always sorry to hear he just couldn't make the business work.
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Old 01-14-2019, 12:23 PM
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I consider(ed) Denny to be a friend.

I hope for the best for him.

I have respect for someone who announces intent to shutter a business and make sit clear he has debt and obligations and is going to make good on them. I have been in that exact position and am glad so many were patient to be paid-except for the accountant who got me charged with evasion! And the attorney who sent me a bill for reading the letter I sent him firing him due to inadequate representation.

So much for my new year resolution-LOL
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Old 01-14-2019, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jymmiejamz View Post
Its always "personal issues" when someone fabricating parts in the Rover community steals people's money.
I can confirm that, in this case, it is the truth.
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  #11  
Old 01-14-2019, 03:44 PM
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Dennis Altman, Keith Kreutzer, Dave Lucas, Matt Bush, Larry Grubbs, and Denny. Seen a lot of Rover guys go out of business and it does not always end well.
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  #12  
Old 01-14-2019, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptschram View Post
I consider(ed) Denny to be a friend.

I hope for the best for him.

I have respect for someone who announces intent to shutter a business and make sit clear he has debt and obligations and is going to make good on them. I have been in that exact position and am glad so many were patient to be paid-except for the accountant who got me charged with evasion! And the attorney who sent me a bill for reading the letter I sent him firing him due to inadequate representation.

So much for my new year resolution-LOL
Anyone looking to build parts for older Rovers should take a long, hard look at how Greg handles it. That's the way to enter the market, and build up a solid, dedicated following and brand. From there you can safely take it to the next level if you want to.

I don't remember what the deal was at this point, and I wouldn't repeat it either way, but I do recall something happened that jostled his ability to continue projects.

Denny was a cool guy, but like many others, he seemed to misunderstand (not underestimate) the commitment required in fabricating custom parts for a niche market. It takes dedication, or at least fixed and highly limited production. It was the disappearance that pissed me off. He was almost on top of it, but I think those last few rungs of the ladder were just too much.

His level of motivation was high, and his creativity was impressive. Perhaps he went too far in his attempts to respond to the market and innovate without an established, core product line.

Then, nothing. Of course, you know where people are today, but they just land in denial quite often and won't communicate when they get buried. You can be a cool guy all you want, but as soon as you do that, it's over. Some people just hate that reaction, and I'm one of them.

It's not like Columbia Overland, where the guy made great products but is a certified fucking spinster and lemming ready to follow any scheme off a cliff regardless of the fallout, and won't even keep the most simple of promises. Waste of time, that guy. Fuck that shit. I suggest people avoid associating with Alex entirely. He'll present himself as a business professional, but he's a fucking hack.

That comes from direct experience over a lengthy period; not some supposition.

Denny was different. I think he got buried, but I like people that stand right up immediately and say it, rather than leaving designs that everyone could use, and arguably the best of their kind, to rot in questionable IP limbo.
Coming back years later is too late to correct any financial concerns without the potential of people demanding interest. It's going to suck, but hopefully he'll manage it.

Fallout 4 and 76 annoy me for the same reason. It's hard for someone to jump in there and compete with a niche establishment, and when the guys essentially maintaining the genre fuck it up, what is the consumer to do? Every failure of manufacturing in the Rover industry scares people away from new guys.

Of course, he's not the sort to have intended any of this. I'm just more critical of apathy than most. Denny was and likely still is a stand-up guy who just bit off more than he could chew in the face of life's obstacles. HLC could have been legendary. Somewhere here I've still got the prototypes for the spherical rod end adapters, actually.

Maybe HLC will be awesome again. I hope so, and I'd even be willing to work with the new owners if required. Their best bet would be to tap Denny as a design resource. He's too good to go to waste.

Columbia can suck my cock, though. What a waste of time that was.

Cheers,

Kennith
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  #13  
Old 01-14-2019, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CORover View Post
Dennis Altman, Keith Kreutzer, Dave Lucas, Matt Bush, Larry Grubbs, and Denny. Seen a lot of Rover guys go out of business and it does not always end well.
You forgot that Discoweb practically started it
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Old 01-14-2019, 04:57 PM
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You guys seem to be forgetting that Denny didn't just come right out with it from the get go. This sudden announcement to sell is YEARS after falling off the face of the earth, allowing his designs to go unused, and leaving people in limbo. Not to bash him, but it seems like some people are forgetting how it actually went down.
I hope he does make good on the product he owes people and I hope his products find a home.

I still wish Brad with Rockstar would have sold his designs to someone before he retired. That's another guy that knew his stuff and made solid products he would stand behind. At least Brad went out under his own terms and with no pissed off people, he was a genuinely good guy.

And CORover, let's not forget perhaps the most infamous fabricator to fade away: Nate Bottorf.
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'96 D1 Daily Driver. OME lift, 235/85/16 Toyo AT's.
'95 D1 Project Truck.
'94 D1 Too good to pass up. OME lift, 265/75/16 BFG AT's, Detroit/TruTrac, etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by discostew View Post
No matter how hard you stir it you won't make chocolate ice cream out of a bucket of shit
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  #15  
Old 01-14-2019, 05:13 PM
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"And CORover, let's not forget perhaps the most infamous fabricator to fade away: Nate Bottorf."


I was just listing guys I have worked with in the past, mostly CO based. I knew someone else would mention Nate!
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  #16  
Old 01-14-2019, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
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You forgot that Discoweb practically started it
DWeb definitely had a big hand in getting most of these guys going or helping get them off the ground and get their names and products out there. I found several of them that way.
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  #17  
Old 01-14-2019, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishEH View Post
let's not forget perhaps the most infamous fabricator to fade away: Nate Bottorf.
You are forgetting The most infamous fabricator to fade away - one of the three people who started Discoweb.
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Old 01-14-2019, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by p m View Post
You are forgetting The most infamous fabricator to fade away - one of the three people who started Discoweb.
KVT? I?ll admit it was before my time.

Denny?s D2 with the 5.0 is probably the best sounding Rover V8 I?ve ever heard
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Old 01-14-2019, 11:41 PM
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I feel like everyone needs a refresher. Take a stroll over to the DiscoWeb Hall of Fame and read the open letter to KVT.
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Old 01-15-2019, 12:04 AM
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Denny is a great guy. I know him personally and wish him the best. Yes, some shit happened that sucks for all parties involved, but he is a genuinely good person! Anytime I have ever wheeled or hung out with him I had a blast! I hope to be able to do so in the future as well!

Side gigs are hard. I am a working musician and in addition to my "day job" of teaching and conducting wind bands I have side gigs as a percussionists around the Atlanta area and I have burned some bridges due to my lack of organization in my scheduling. Every "job" has challenges and Denny went through the same shit. It just sucks that everyone suffered in the situation....
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Old 01-15-2019, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by disco_drum View Post
Denny is a great guy. I know him personally and wish him the best. Yes, some shit happened that sucks for all parties involved, but he is a genuinely good person! Anytime I have ever wheeled or hung out with him I had a blast! I hope to be able to do so in the future as well!

Side gigs are hard. I am a working musician and in addition to my "day job" of teaching and conducting wind bands I have side gigs as a percussionists around the Atlanta area and I have burned some bridges due to my lack of organization in my scheduling. Every "job" has challenges and Denny went through the same shit. It just sucks that everyone suffered in the situation....
We all hit that wall eventually in one way or another.

The problem for some is it happens publicly, and that's got to be even more discouraging. Feeling like you might be unwelcome in your favorite playground isn't fun.

It just sucks seeing people get the impression that they can't come back, because they can. That's the part that's frustrating for me to see, especially when it happens to someone that good.

Cheers,

Kennith
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Old 01-15-2019, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by kennith View Post
We all hit that wall eventually in one way or another.

The problem for some is it happens publicly, and that's got to be even more discouraging. Feeling like you might be unwelcome in your favorite playground isn't fun.

It just sucks seeing people get the impression that they can't come back, because they can. That's the part that's frustrating for me to see, especially when it happens to someone that good.

Cheers,

Kennith
Yep! Exactly!
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Old 01-16-2019, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by kennith View Post
Anyone looking to build parts for older Rovers should take a long, hard look at how Greg handles it. That's the way to enter the market, and build up a solid, dedicated following and brand. From there you can safely take it to the next level if you want to.

I don't remember what the deal was at this point, and I wouldn't repeat it either way, but I do recall something happened that jostled his ability to continue projects.

Denny was a cool guy, but like many others, he seemed to misunderstand (not underestimate) the commitment required in fabricating custom parts for a niche market. It takes dedication, or at least fixed and highly limited production. It was the disappearance that pissed me off. He was almost on top of it, but I think those last few rungs of the ladder were just too much.

His level of motivation was high, and his creativity was impressive. Perhaps he went too far in his attempts to respond to the market and innovate without an established, core product line.

Then, nothing. Of course, you know where people are today, but they just land in denial quite often and won't communicate when they get buried. You can be a cool guy all you want, but as soon as you do that, it's over. Some people just hate that reaction, and I'm one of them.

It's not like Columbia Overland, where the guy made great products but is a certified fucking spinster and lemming ready to follow any scheme off a cliff regardless of the fallout, and won't even keep the most simple of promises. Waste of time, that guy. Fuck that shit. I suggest people avoid associating with Alex entirely. He'll present himself as a business professional, but he's a fucking hack.

That comes from direct experience over a lengthy period; not some supposition.

Denny was different. I think he got buried, but I like people that stand right up immediately and say it, rather than leaving designs that everyone could use, and arguably the best of their kind, to rot in questionable IP limbo.
Coming back years later is too late to correct any financial concerns without the potential of people demanding interest. It's going to suck, but hopefully he'll manage it.

Fallout 4 and 76 annoy me for the same reason. It's hard for someone to jump in there and compete with a niche establishment, and when the guys essentially maintaining the genre fuck it up, what is the consumer to do? Every failure of manufacturing in the Rover industry scares people away from new guys.

Of course, he's not the sort to have intended any of this. I'm just more critical of apathy than most. Denny was and likely still is a stand-up guy who just bit off more than he could chew in the face of life's obstacles. HLC could have been legendary. Somewhere here I've still got the prototypes for the spherical rod end adapters, actually.

Maybe HLC will be awesome again. I hope so, and I'd even be willing to work with the new owners if required. Their best bet would be to tap Denny as a design resource. He's too good to go to waste.

Columbia can suck my cock, though. What a waste of time that was.

Cheers,

Kennith
Could you give a more detailed response?
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Old 01-16-2019, 10:10 PM
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Could you give a more detailed response?
Don't ask him that, he probably will.
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Old 01-17-2019, 01:01 PM
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You know, it's the fact that most people reject detail as "text walls" that is causing every damned problem in the world today. There was a time, and it was a time when people thought correctly, when such a response would be considered not detailed enough.

This isn't a telegram. This isn't Twitter. This is a place where a thought can be fully communicated, and provided with context. The lack of context is why we ended up with a politics forum. It's why most people are ignorant. It's why the Constitution is misunderstood, and it's why many wars happen. It's why people think racism is on the rise, and why most protesters are protesting today.

What I'm doing is communicating with language the way it's meant to be used. Fully illustrate a point or fail to make that point. Once illustrated properly, observe all the fools who still break it down into bite-size chunks, because they are intellectually incapable of understanding any more in this world of what used to be called "leet speak".

Those people are not worth speaking with. They shouldn't even be reproducing. If that was too much for someone to read... Well, they have no reading comprehension, and they'll never again understand causality. Such a person needs to grab a mop and push it in silence. That's the place for them.

Now, there's nothing wrong with that place, mind you; people should simply know their place, and if that's the place for someone, he or she should zip up the trap and get to scrubbing.

Cheers,

Kennith
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