Viscous Fan Clutch - alternate part

[majorpayne]

Just a little update:

Went to autozone and ended up getting the 215157. The 215158 just seemed to be too stiff for my liking. Also, I mentioned that online they listed 215157 as the "standard duty", however, what I got with that part number is the heavy duty. I had them check the 215107 and he said it reverted to the 215157 part. So maybe the difference is only online. In the stores it's gonna be as everyone has stated with 215157 being heavy and 215158 being severe. (FYI they ARE all Torqflo and are made in China, but I'll take my chances)

I haven't even had time to drive around with it but I will give you my take on installation;

Mine came with the bolts and spring washers. First thing you need to do is run the bolts into the aluminum threads of the new clutch as I found some of the threads were tight on the bolts.

Next, and this is just how I did it, but it will ensure the bolts stay centered. Use a stepped drill bit. I have lots of these lying around and if you do any fabrication they are worth their weight in gold. I used the stepped drill bit to take the holes on the fan to 3/8" as has been mentioned before. This will still be tight on the bolts that come with the clutch. I then "threaded" the bolts into the fan several times so they will go in just using your fingers to turn them.

After these steps just put it together. Everything lined up and I measured the gap from the inside diameter of the fan to the clutch and it was perfect on all four sides.

After installing the assembly I spun the fan and measured from the pulley on the water pump to the face of the fan and everything looked good. Cranked it up and there was zero wobble, everything appeared to be aligned properly.

We'll see how it does today. I'm gonna make a highway run and then pull off and sit for a while and attempt to replicate the temp spikes I was seeing before.

 

[majorpayne]

AAR:

215157 was the perfect choice IMO. Works great and the temp never spiked. So my take on it, pending a proper gauge for actual temps, is that I would highly recommend a swap to this if you are having issues. If you're still having issues there are other problem areas to be looking at.

 

[p m]

There has never been a question of whether this fan clutch works. It does.
The problem is that it never disengages completely, unlike LR genuine clutch, which make it noisy, definitely affecting fuel efficiency (of an order of 0.5-1 mpg), and loading up the water pump bearing.
I keep one around as an emergency spare, but won't run it (or even P38A LR clutch) as a permanent replacement.

 

[majorpayne]

To be completely honest with you if I was worried about the mileage or the noise I wouldn't be driving a discovery. The transfer case whine is still enough to drown out the noise.

As far as the water pump bearing goes, I find it funny that there are hundreds of examples of water pumps that function perfectly with solid-mounted fans that have no clutches. Their bearings don't get "loaded" up. Did LR wuss out and put the pansy bearings into these water pumps or something? Maybe I just don't have the inside scoop.

 

[p m]

To be completely honest with you if I was worried about the mileage or the noise I wouldn't be driving a discovery. The transfer case whine is still enough to drown out the noise.

As far as the water pump bearing goes, I find it funny that there are hundreds of examples of water pumps that function perfectly with solid-mounted fans that have no clutches. Their bearings don't get "loaded" up. Did LR wuss out and put the pansy bearings into these water pumps or something? Maybe I just don't have the inside scoop.

I am driving a Discovery or a Classic 47 miles round-trip per workday, and I am worried about the mileage. I am worried about the mileage when I need to make two or three gas stops between San Diego and Denver.
My D1's old transfer case was pretty damn whiny, and yet it was nothing compared to the "C-130 at a take-off" noise of the Chevy clutch (quote from Mike Fisher).

As far as hundreds of water pumps with solid-mounted fans working perfectly - I call it a BS. Even on an old Buick 350 I have on my Wagoneer, it was a little-known fact that using a Buick car fan WITH the same fan clutch, instead of jeep fan, could almost double the water pump life. Fan-induced vibration is what destroys water pump shafts; there is always imbalance in both fan's weight and blades' aerodynamics, and the tighter one couples the fan with the pump shaft, the sooner the pump will go.

 

[majorpayne]

The issue is that your priorities are wrong. But apart from saying something that someone will probably misinterpret as an insult, I will say this:

On my truck the fan clutch went out before the water pump. The Chevy Part # fan is working properly. It is disengaged when cool and at start up and when up to temp engages. The noise of the fan is reassuring. At least I know its working as compared to the last 3 LR fans I have had the pleasure of messing with.

To be honest I'd say that the serp belt puts more stress on the WP shaft than the fan does. In reality the fan probably evens out the tension the belt puts on it.

Regardless of your opinion of fixed fans or constant duty non-thermal fan clutches, the reality is that the chevy one works. To say it will work for one vehicle and not for another is asinine.

I would rather worry about the overheating (or lack thereof) of my LR as opposed to noise or what will most likely be negligible water pump lifespan. That is my priority.

Maybe I'll see if the Chevy waterpump will fit, since it must be so much tougher

 

[p m]

The reality is that there's a $70 difference between a Land Rover part and a Chevy generic part. The original part works just fine (say, towing one Classic with another at 70 mph up a 6% grade in a 95F weather), so you can use any reason to justify a cheaper version.

Doesn't mean all generic or cheaper replacements for factory parts are bad. I still haven't found a downside in using a Chevy power steering pump, for one.

 

[ptschram]

As far as hundreds of water pumps with solid-mounted fans working perfectly - I call it a BS.

The fan on my 109 is directly driven with no clutch. Apparently, Land Rover did decide at one point that the clutch wasn't necessary.

 

[p m]

Paul, it comes back down to ... how many miles do you put on your 109 a year?

I owned two European Fords and two other vehicles with the fan bolted to the pulley. In all of them, the fan was tiny compared to LR V8 fan. Neither of them lasted anywhere close to 200+ kmi (in all fairness, for other reasons than the pump shaft).
You know the arguments, and while you may be happy with using the Chevy substitute yourself, you won't install it on customers' trucks. Or it has changed lately?

 

[ptschram]

Paul, it comes back down to ... how many miles do you put on your 109 a year?

I owned two European Fords and two other vehicles with the fan bolted to the pulley. In all of them, the fan was tiny compared to LR V8 fan. Neither of them lasted anywhere close to 200+ kmi (in all fairness, for other reasons than the pump shaft).
You know the arguments, and while you may be happy with using the Chevy substitute yourself, you won't install it on customers' trucks. Or it has changed lately?

Um, I don't use them because I am now able to get the correct clutches for less and sell for less and yet make as much, or more profit and not have to modify the fan and if something does go wrong down the road, it is less likely to be blamed on my using something other than a Rover part. Other reasons than concerns over the appropriateness of the clutch.

I don't want folks using the Chevy clutch because I want them to buy from me!

For many years, I drove my Disco 48 miles one way to work with the Chevy fan clutch with no ill effects.

So far, it's only been the one client who had a negative experience and as the dealer threw the clutch away, I couldn't even warranty it for the owner.

W/R/T the 109, it appears as though the truck was built for use in a part of the world where the weather is much more taxing on a vehicle's cooling system, yet it has a fixed fan. This truck does not even have provision for a heater!

 

[Injuhneer]

*bump*

OK, so I have been wrangling a heating problem in my 97 D1. The fan is noisy so I was thinking about going back to the S-10 fan blade/clutch mod that I used on my 96 D1.

Lots of complaints here about the noise and the HD Chevy clutch not fully disengaging.

A couple of things to note:
- The Chevy clutch does work and does engage/disengage properly with the Chevy fan
- The Chevy clutch makes the Rover fan noisy (at freewheel) because it is lighter

This viscosity of the fluid and the temp range is used on a wide list of GM vehicles but always with the same fan and clutch (HD).

After reading this thread I wanted to do a little testing. Here is what I found:

The GM fan is far more massive than the Rover. Diameter, pitch, blade profile, and overall mass. The S-10 fan is more massive and freewheels correctly with the Chevy clutch.

The Rover fan will work but it is much lighter so even at the greatest disengagement the Chevy clutch can manage the Rover fan is lighter and more easily turned. The Chevy clutch does put the fan farther forward. Any noise suppression at the blade tips by the shroud is largely lost.

In any case, the normal duty Chevy clutch is more likely to perform similar to the LR clutch. By design it only drives a small metal three bladed fan. So if you want to keep your OEM shroud and fan use the normal (w/o AC) clutch.

So there ya' have it.

I am about to make this fitment to my '97 D1. This time instead of modifying the LR fan shroud I'll take a shot at fitting the S-10 shroud. If that doesn't work I'll mod the LR shroud or just remove it.

-OR-

Buy the LR clutch.

 

[cosmic88]

I've had the Chevy clutch on the Disco for a couple years and have no issues at all. FL. heat with A/C on a lot. I used the LR fan with the Chevy clutch. Simply open up the fan hub holes with a reamer to the diameter of the Chevy clutch bolts and you are done... this is not a rocket launch.


It is perfect and available anywhere.

 

[Injuhneer]

Houston, we have a problem... :-D

 

[nynor]

i replaced my fan clutch, yesterday, with the hayden 2786, after reading the information on this thread.

fan worked great, the temp stayed right where it should. i would have been driving home today with the heat running in the vehicle, instead of the AC, had i not replaced this yesterday.

i thought it might be noisier than the stock fan clutch, but i cannot tell the difference.

IMO, there are two major advantages to this setup: 1. it is half the price of the rover fan clutch and 2. it is stocked at the local auto parts store.

thanks for the information, gents.

d.

 

[p m]

IMO, there are two major advantages to this setup: 1. it is half the price of the rover fan clutch and 2. it is stocked at the local auto parts store.

Some time ago, (2) more than (1) motivated me to use S10 p/s pump. Little did I know

 

[nynor]

Some time ago, (2) more than (1) motivated me to use S10 p/s pump. Little did I know

an S10 pump.... does that work?!

 

[p m]

yes it does... but when it doesn't, you better be close to one mother of all NAPA stores.

 

[robertf]

i replaced my fan clutch, yesterday, with the hayden 2786, after reading the information on this thread.

fan worked great, the temp stayed right where it should. i would have been driving home today with the heat running in the vehicle, instead of the AC, had i not replaced this yesterday.

i thought it might be noisier than the stock fan clutch, but i cannot tell the difference.

IMO, there are two major advantages to this setup: 1. it is half the price of the rover fan clutch and 2. it is stocked at the local auto parts store.

thanks for the information, gents.

d.

Another advantage is the sweet dents it puts in the hood when the fan explodes in freezing weather

Been there, done that twice

 

[roverover]

We probably don't get as many freezing nights as Dallas but I've never seen one fail

 

[ptschram]

How much was the alternative clutch?