Trayvon, Zimmerman...Enough already

Drillbit

Drillbit

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Oct 12, 2005
5,943
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Glasgow Ky
So Trayvon was obligation to let himself be stopped and questioned by Zimmerman because he thought he looked suspicious? I buy foreclosures. So if some neighbor sees someone in a hoodie going in and out of a empty house on their street the night and comes over with Ole Bessy and tells me to reach for the sky I should just do it? If you want to be John Wayne I say go for it but if you shoot someone who didn't need shot I think you should go to jail.
 
mjbrox

mjbrox

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Jun 30, 2008
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Golden CO
D Chapman said:
There is some truth to that statement. But I would not allow my home to be broken into over-and-over again. I'm not a charity. I'm not going to live in fear.

Under the law, though, you're technically wrong.

"The use of deadly force can be used when:
1) Another person is, or was attempting arson, burglary, robbery, or another felony,
2) The use of deadly force is immediately necessary because of a genuine fear for the safety of the home or its inhabitants,
3) The use of deadly force would prevent or stop the other person's criminal activity, and
4) The use of non-deadly force would put the homeowner at risk of serious bodily harm."
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If you think killing another many to protect your stupid possessions is justified, then we will never come to an agreement on this issue.

Let try some other points that we can agree on

Why are they calling Zimmerman White? Can I start calling Obama White now?
Why is the black community all of sudden so energized? Maybe they should put half of this anger into daily gang battles being waged on the streets.
 
D Chapman

D Chapman

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Jan 3, 2005
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On Kennith's private island
Drillbit said:
Yes. We give cops right citizens don't have. A cop has the right to detain and question people suspected of crimes or who are acting suspiciously. Cops have training in escalation of force and have minimum physical tests they have to meet.
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Citizens arrest? Bounty Hunters?

Drillbit said:
Say your are right and Trayvon attacked Zimmerman. If when when Trayvon rushed him saying "what you following me for?" he got a "Police freeze!" Does this 17 year old with no arrests attack a cop? Doubtful. Can 95 percent of cops handle this fight with out shooting the kid? I would say so.
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We don't have to say I'm right, because I am right. Martin attacked Zimmerman. This is fact backed up by evidence. There is no doubting it. It has been proven in a court of law by a jury of 6 jurors. Evidence shows that Martin attacked Zimmerman. You cannot deny this. The evidence is there.

Everything else you said is speculation. You made it up. It did not happen. It's fictional. It's make believe. You may as well say Zimmerman was a terrorist who was plotting to set off a bomb in the grocery store he was en route to before Martin stopped him making Martin a fucking hero.

All this "what if"..........

Drillbit said:
We give cops special rights because we believe they have the training to use them responsibly. Zimmerman had none of this which is a big part of the reason this kid is dead.
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Hell, what if the cop shot him? You think about that? What if a bunch of ninjas jumped out of the bushes, hit Zimmerman on the back of the head and shot Martin, then ran off?

You can't keep making the story up as you go along. Stick with the facts, not what you want to believe, and it will all come together for you. Trust me, you'll sleep better.
 
Disco_Stu

Disco_Stu

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Jun 11, 2004
379
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Louisville KY
Drillbit said:
So Trayvon was obligation to let himself be stopped and questioned by Zimmerman because he thought he looked suspicious? I buy foreclosures. So if some neighbor sees someone in a hoodie going in and out of a empty house on their street the night and comes over with Ole Bessy and tells me to reach for the sky I should just do it? If you want to be John Wayne I say go for it but if you shoot someone who didn't need shot I think you should go to jail.
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No, Trayvon has no obligation to let himself be questioned, but he has an obligation not to assault someone.

In your post above you asked if it would have been ok for Trayvon to shoot Zimmerman, if other facts such as injuries and eye witness accounts were available to back up his story as they were for Zimmerman and his was the only version to be told then yes there would be sufficient reasonable doubt to not be guilty of manslaughter or murder.

You need to remember that there is no crime justified by words, I can harass you verbally by calling you names, insulting your mother or telling you land rovers suck, but the minute you punch me your are the one guilty of a crime (assault) no matter what I said or how long I follow you around saying it. Now any fallout from that initial crime is on you, both literally and legally.
 
D Chapman

D Chapman

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Jan 3, 2005
11,746
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On Kennith's private island
Drillbit said:
So Trayvon was obligation to let himself be stopped and questioned by Zimmerman because he thought he looked suspicious? I buy foreclosures. So if some neighbor sees someone in a hoodie going in and out of a empty house on their street the night and comes over with Ole Bessy and tells me to reach for the sky I should just do it? If you want to be John Wayne I say go for it but if you shoot someone who didn't need shot I think you should go to jail.
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Why are you still making up stories? At what point did Zimmerman try to stop and question Martin? It did not happen. If you feel it did happen, so us the evidence. But you can't because it did not happen. You made this up. It's not true. It's a fake story. You're lying about what really happened.
 
D Chapman

D Chapman

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Jan 3, 2005
11,746
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On Kennith's private island
mjbrox said:
If you think killing another many to protect your stupid possessions is justified, then we will never come to an agreement on this issue.
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It's not what I think. It's the law. I did not make it up. I didn't make the laws.

mjbrox said:
Let try some other points that we can agree on

Why are they calling Zimmerman White? Can I start calling Obama White now?
Why is the black community all of sudden so energized? Maybe they should put half of this anger into daily gang battles being waged on the streets.
Click to expand...

I can't answer these questions without getting myself in trouble. It would not be politically correct for me to answer them.
 
kennith

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
I could go on a bit about how some of his actions were good in regard to the practice of security, but it doesn't really matter.

I personally don't give a rat's ass about either of them. I don't know them, and I'm certainly not losing any sleep over it. None of us were there.

The court did it's thing. It's over, and dead men tell no tales. Whatever could be said has been said. It's already played out. In a few weeks, most people will stop pretending to care, and it will fall out of the news unless Obama gets a firecracker up his ass again.

So, why pretend now?

I didn't even approach any thought about these events until I saw this thread again.

Cheers,

Kennith
 
cosmic88

cosmic88

Well-known member
Sep 15, 2010
436
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Florida
Drillbit said:
So Trayvon was obligation to let himself be stopped and questioned by Zimmerman because he thought he looked suspicious? I buy foreclosures. So if some neighbor sees someone in a hoodie going in and out of a empty house on their street the night and comes over with Ole Bessy and tells me to reach for the sky I should just do it? If you want to be John Wayne I say go for it but if you shoot someone who didn't need shot I think you should go to jail.
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I like to embellish sometimes too...

Was Martin "obligated" to let himself be stopped? No.

This is so damn simple. Did Zimmerman have the right to approach Martin and ask something simple like "What are you doing?" YES, in this fine land you can talk to strangers.

If you are walking around a private gated community, across peoples yards and cutting through between homes at night in the rain... sorry to say, that looks suspicious. Especially to the neighborhood watch dude.

Apparently there seems to be a problem here with a private citizen watching neighborhood streets and approaching strangers acting suspiciously. What about a hired security guard? What if a police officer had observed the exact same situation? The officer would have followed Martin and wouldn't that be a good thing?

My point is relatively simple... We should not be afraid in our homes, we should be allowed to step onto our neighborhood streets and say, "What up" to anyone at any time. That is not a provocation.
 
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dcarr1971

dcarr1971

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Jun 16, 2010
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Pittsburgh, PA USA
The fact is that Martin could very well have ignored Zimmerman and just kept on walking. He didn't.

When two jerks decide to be assholes to each other and there's nobody around to stop them, bad things can happen. In this case Martin thought it was appropriate to beat up the fat Hispanic guy for being an asshole. Sadly (for both, but more so for Martin), it ended in one being dead and a lot of serious problems for the other.

LRflip said:
an armed society is a polite society.
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x2...at least as long as everyone is armed...
 
p m

p m

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dcarr1971 said:
When two jerks decide to be assholes to each other and there's nobody around to stop them, bad things can happen. In this case Martin thought it was appropriate to beat up the fat Hispanic guy for being an asshole. Sadly (for both, but more so for Martin), it ended in one being dead and a lot of serious problems for the other.
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That pretty much sums up the story.
 
cosmic88

cosmic88

Well-known member
Sep 15, 2010
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Florida
dcarr1971 said:
The fact is that Martin could very well have ignored Zimmerman and just kept on walking. He didn't.

When two jerks decide to be assholes to each other and there's nobody around to stop them, bad things can happen. In this case Martin thought it was appropriate to beat up the fat Hispanic guy for being an asshole. Sadly (for both, but more so for Martin), it ended in one being dead and a lot of serious problems for the other.



x2...at least as long as everyone is armed...
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Eggzackery...

Zimmerman is such a.... http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/07/22/sanford-zimmerman-rescue/2575217/
 
knewsom

knewsom

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Jul 10, 2008
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La Mancha, CA
two people acted like assholes and one of them died. Does it matter which one of them started acting like an asshole first?

if only ONE of them had smiled and said hello instead of acting confrontational, everything would have been fine. The lesson? DON'T BE A DICK.
 
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p m

p m

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knewsom said:
two people acted like assholes and one of them died. Does it matter which one of them started acting like an asshole first?
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Not sure where you are going with this. If I were on the ground with somebody pounding my head with fists, I don't think I'd take my sweet time pondering proportionality of my response - whatever could be used for a weapon would be.
 
B

bri

Well-known member
Apr 20, 2004
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D Chapman said:
If Gunny took your tire iron away, there would be no reasonable reason for Gunny to then shoot you. He has your weapon.
<snip>
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Depends on what "you" did once Gunny took the iron. If Gunny thinks life is still at risk even if he now has the irong, he can use deadly force, right?
 
knewsom

knewsom

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Jul 10, 2008
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La Mancha, CA
p m said:
Not sure where you are going with this. If I were on the ground with somebody pounding my head with fists, I don't think I'd take my sweet time pondering proportionality of my response - whatever could be used for a weapon would be.
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as would I. ...even if I started the fight by being an asshole.
 
B

bri

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Apr 20, 2004
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mjbrox said:
If you think killing another many to protect your stupid possessions is justified, then we will never come to an agreement on this issue.
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Seriously?

You need to read the castle laws, ccw and use of deadly force statutes for your state.

Add kidnapping to the list of justifications at least here in CO.

There are a bunch of qualifications for when you are justified, but what Chapman says is generally true.
 
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