Lucky8’s Project Discovery 3

ArmyRover

ArmyRover

Well-known member
Dec 4, 2007
3,230
1
Augusta, GA
Nomar said:
I would applaud if he could keep those dang dash cupholders from blowing apart!


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I used to watch that guys threads all the time on benzworld. My wife drives a 163 ML she loves it. It's been a great truck for her. 12 years now and still on the original cupholders :D
 
FIVESPDDISCO

FIVESPDDISCO

2
Apr 29, 2004
6,776
2
Clarence center
www.lucky8LLc.com
Nomar said:
Now this is just getting silly.

Pinched?

Frayed?

Cut?



lol



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Winch line Basics
Synthetic winch lines offer many advantages over their steel counterparts, including weight reduction, easier handling, and increased safety due to less kinetic energy stored in the line when under tension. The material used for almost all synthetic winch lines is an ultra high molecular weight polyethylene, or UHMPE. This brand of fiber used is either DSM Dyneema SK-75 or Honeywell Spectra 3000. Lucky8 ropes use Dyneema SK-75 because of a slight increase in the strength to weight ratio when compared to Spectra.
The natural color for Dyneema is white, and the rope color is achieved by coating the fibers in a polyurethane mixture. With Dyneema not absorbing liquids, the coating sits on top of the individual fibers, but does not dye them. Along with the color, the coating provides increased UV protection, increased chafe protection, and reduced fiber on fiber abrasion. Most other manufacturers either only coat the outside of the main strands, or the outside of the finished rope. However our Dyneema ropes are coated all the way through to better protect each individual fiber. This is important for applications like winch lines because the line is often used in rough conditions, where mud and dirt can become imbedded in between the line fibers.
While our increased coating does provide a superior level of protection, dirty lines should still be gently washed with a mild soap and water to remove debris. Over time and use without cleaning, the dirt will act like sandpaper and start to degrade the coating, and eventually it can degrade the strength of the fibers.
The largest downside of all UHMWPE fibers, including Dyneema, is its melting temperature of 266F. DSM, the manufacturer of Dyneema, recommends and maximum operating temperature of 180-200F for its fibers. As we all know friction creates heat, and certain winching practices can create heat that is detrimental to the strength of the rope. One source of increased heat is winching out while under load when using a planetary gear winch with a brake that is internal to the winch drum. This can be avoided by using a planetary gear winch with a brake external to the drum, or a worm driven winch.
Other fibers are available with a higher melting point than Dyneema, such as the liquid crystal polymer (LCP) known as Vectran. While strong, Vectran does not have the strength for size ratio that Dyneema offers, and it is in not nearly as chafe resistant as Dyneema.
Another source of heat that may not be as apparent is line on line friction. This is generally created when the winch is put under heavy load and the line is fed in over top of other layers of line that were put on loose, often with gaps in between wraps. As the line under tension wraps over top of the looser line, it will start to work its way between the wraps. This action will create friction and heat. Depending on the situation, and previous use, the heat from the friction can exceed the melting point of the fiber, thus causing a line failure. The line should be put on the winch under load, with no gaps between each wrap. This will greatly help reduce the chances of the line slipping between gaps in the layers.
For what is worth this same concept is useful when dealing with steel winch lines. While heat is not an issue, if loose, the lower layers of line can be crushed and distorted by top layers coming onto the drum under tension. While more forgiving to this type of abuse than synthetic line, this improper winch usage can still cause a failure in steel line.
The biggest advantage of Dyneema line is that it does not stretch like steel cable does. When a line is put under load it stretches, and kinetic energy is stored within the line. As a general rule, Dyneema line stretches less than 2% at breaking strength, while steel line can stretch between 20-30% at breaking strength. Because of the low amount of stretch, little kinetic energy is stored in the Dyneema line. While all the same safety precautions should still be used with Dyneema line as with steel line, the low degree of stored kinetic energy reduces the chance of the line causing damage in the event of a failure.
 
D Chapman

D Chapman

1
Jan 3, 2005
11,746
73
On Kennith's private island
That's the biggest post of bullshit I have seen in a long time.

Sure, taking the time to wrap your line when you're finished with it is nice to do. I could easily see where not getting gaps in the line is not only possible, but it looks neat and organized. I like the look of a cleanly spooled winch line. I'm also not saying that it's not entirely impossible to get the wraps tight enough together that while winching a 6,000lb truck with a 15,000lb winch the wraps will not separate. :rolleyes:

But who the fuck takes the time to neatly wrap a winch line while using the winch? I don't think I've ever seen this done. I'm glad I've never seen this done, actually. I would have about the same amount patience for this guy on the trail as I would for the guy who towed his truck 8-hours to an off-road event knowing his low range did not work.

When winching a truck the winch line pinches itself all over the place. Sometimes it spools up on one side of the drum. Sometimes while winching the truck will slide and the rope will cross itself from left to right and back again. Sometimes the wraps have thumb-size gaps in them. There's not a lot you can do about it. The rope is going to pinch itself. But you're telling me that if the rope gets pinched it could snap? Sorry, man, that sounds like horseshit to me.

You're also trying to tell me that pinching the line in itself causes more heat and harm than dragging the fucking thing over a hawse fairlead with 5-tons of force pulling on it? Somehow pinching the line will cause it to break, but dragging it over a piece of metal is perfectly okay?

The made in China winchline you sell broke five times in 3 hours. Five! 5! Justin, do you understand? Five fucking times on straight line pulls on level ground in the fucking slick ass snow. You're telling us this winch line broke do to pinching itself five times? That's bullshit, Justin. That's fucking bullshit. Want to know the real reason the winchline broke? It's because it was a piece of shit winchline.

You know what kind if reason for winchline failure makes a whole lot more sense? If the line is tied in a knot. Wherever there is a knot the line is the weakest. This is noting new and it applies to all kinds of line or rope no matter what it's made or. The knot is the weakest link in the chain. It took a fucking rocket scientist to figure this out.

When this winchline broke five times the owner was tying the rope back together in knots. Obviously he needed his winch and tying the rope in knots was his only option on the trail. We make trail compromises all the time to get us home and this guys last resort was tying his winchline in knots to get unstuck. So why was your winchline not breaking at the knots? Because winchline pinching itself causes more damage than a knot in the rope?
 
D Chapman

D Chapman

1
Jan 3, 2005
11,746
73
On Kennith's private island
Jesus Christ, Justin. A better line is a line that does not break five fucking times in a row. Oddly enough, that appears to be every other rope on the market except yours. Do I really need to explain why a rope that does not break is better than a rope that does break?
 
FIVESPDDISCO

FIVESPDDISCO

2
Apr 29, 2004
6,776
2
Clarence center
www.lucky8LLc.com
I agree it's the rope. Some how the USA made Dyneema SK-75 we use is inferior to the others.

But just for the sake of argument let's pretend he used the rope for years in bad conditions. Like Rausch Creek Off Road Park with all that coal dust and the NJ Pine Barrens with all the sand. And lets pretend he also told me that he's never cleaned the line. And to make things interesting he told me he always unwinds the winch line after every trip to put it back on the drum loose.
 
D Chapman

D Chapman

1
Jan 3, 2005
11,746
73
On Kennith's private island
FIVESPDDISCO said:
I agree it's the rope. Some how the USA made Dyneema SK-75 we use is inferior to the others.
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If that shit is USA made then they need to go into business doing something else because what they're doing is shit.

This is more like it. http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/10-Ton-winch-rope-synthetic-winch_1532367748.html

FIVESPDDISCO said:
But just for the sake of argument let's pretend he used the rope for years in bad conditions. Like Rausch Creek Off Road Park with all that coal dust and the NJ Pine Barrens with all the sand. And lets pretend he also told me that he's never cleaned the line. And to make things interesting he told me he always unwinds the winch line after every trip to put it back on the drum loose.
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Okay, so what constitutes "years in bad conditions"? Is this rope really really old or something? I didn't think it was. You built this truck up in what, winter of 2010? So if this is the same rope you installed it's no more than what, 3 years old? When was the truck sold? 2011? 2012? This guy must wheel an awful lot in "bad conditions" to wear a rope out in 2 or 3 years.

But I really don't see how that's justifiable. Personally, I've never washed a winch line. I'm not saying that no one ever washes their winch lines, but I personally have never done this. I bought two Master Pull winch lines in May of 2009 and they've never been washed. Ever. They've never broken, either. One of these lines has been from Maine to Texas and exposed to everything from ice melt chemicals to 110* heat, Texas trail dust to thick Virginia red clay. But the line was never washed and has never broken. Maybe I'm just lucky.

I wonder if Garret and JB ever wash their winch lines on their training trucks? To my knowledge they've only had one line failure in several years of winch training. Maybe they've had more, but I know of only one failure. But I could probably guarantee they've never had multiple failures on the same line. I would only assume driving back-and-forth in their mud pit, over-and-over again, constitutes "bad conditions" for a winch rope..??

40011_142621555758103_2227732_n.jpg

So why do these winch ropes not break regularly? Why do they not break several times in one day?


FIVESPDDISCO said:
And to make things interesting he told me he always unwinds the winch line after every trip to put it back on the drum loose.
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I'm pretty sure a lot of people do this. Have you ever been out on a trail and needed to use your winch but cannot free-spool the rope because it's jammed on the drum? I have. A lot of times after a hard pull the rope will get so tight on the drum you cannot free-spool it. Personally, I always took the time to attach one end to a tree and free-spool the line by driving in reverse, then respool the line by hand. I know a lot of people who do this, actually. A winch is worthless if you can't free-spool the rope. I honestly do not see a problem with this. But you do? And you think this is what caused this rope to fail miserably? Seriously?

I just really do not see where you're coming up with all this stuff. It's totally bullshit and you may be able to pull the wool over some peoples eyes, but I'm not buying it. If this winch rope was in such poor condition to being exposed to coal dust and sand and full of abrasions, it just seems to me the line would look like hell. But the line does not look like hell. The line looks reasonably clean to me and in good shape.

photo28429_28Medium29.JPG
 
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