2020 Defender

SCSL

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Apr 27, 2005
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I think this approach shows promise. It’s a great idea. The mileage cap would be tough for me, but probably fine for the target audience. I’m glad JLR has its thinking cap on in terms of how to survive in Clown World.

this approach is probably the future - a middle ground between buy/lease and the urban no-car full time Uber approach.
 

SCSL

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Apr 27, 2005
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Or am I clueless and people actually finance the entire cost of a $90k vehicle and this is a good deal for those folks?
I think you would be surprised at the LTV of the average car loan.



 

DiscoHasBeen

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Aug 7, 2016
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I think this approach shows promise. It’s a great idea. The mileage cap would be tough for me, but probably fine for the target audience. I’m glad JLR has its thinking cap on in terms of how to survive in Clown World.

this approach is probably the future - a middle ground between buy/lease and the urban no-car full time Uber approach.
As I said, this is basically the program Toyota has for its employees, minus the insurance. My brother-in-law told me that every 5k, I'm 99% sure, Toyota mandated he take it to get new tires, on their dime. In case not all know about Toyota's employee program. You can "lease" a vehicle for a determined amount of time. You pay a monthly payment and they take care of everything else. At the end of the "lease", you either buy the car outright or turn it in. They allow family members to buy said car. That's how we got our Highlander, bought out the BIL's lease. Can't remember the purchase price but it's a 2015 with 150k the wife uses mostly for work and it's not underwater loan wise.

And yes 'stew, before you go off the deep end her main ride is an MKX.
 
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discostew

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Sep 14, 2010
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There should be zero cost of owning a BRAND NEW vehicle, except maybe an oil change.
I agree with this. Thats why I buy cheap but brand new GM products. Once it's out of factory warranty it's on borrowed time. I would have bailed on this Cruze I'm driving the first time there is a major repair. It just won't fucking die, just keeps going like the damn energyzer bunny. I'm sick of driving it, but I'm going to keep going I guess.
 

SCSL

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Apr 27, 2005
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Ordinarily, I would argue against leasing a car. But that’s just academic at this point. If one wants a new luxury car, it seems like the lease is the way to go. Sure, the financials don’t make sense. But the financials don’t take into account all of the tech to go wrong and the repair bills three+ years hence. You just end up owning a burden. And a three thousand dollar repair bill covers a lot of lease payments. I haven’t done all of the math, just back-of-the-napkin, but I can’t imagine buying into the problem of a new RR. And that doesn’t even take into account the depreciation for the “buy it under warranty and then sell it” crowd.
 

discostew

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Sep 14, 2010
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If you don't put a lot of miles on a car leasing is good, but probably not better than owning it outright. To me it's about giving up control. I personally don't know what my life has in store for me 3 years from now. Maybe I won't be in a position to get out of my vehicle then. Also I drive 100 miles a day round trip. so a 36,000 mile lease is just over a years driving.

But to answer your question, not only will people finance the whole $90,000, they roll whats left of the last car into it. It gives upside down in a vehicle a whole new meaning. Gap insurance is something I will never need I hope. For you guys that don't know, if you owe more for the vehicle than it's worth, you have to insure the difference. Total scam.
 

SCSL

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Apr 27, 2005
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If you don't put a lot of miles on a car leasing is good, but probably not better than owning it outright. To me it's about giving up control. I personally don't know what my life has in store for me 3 years from now. Maybe I won't be in a position to get out of my vehicle then. Also I drive 100 miles a day round trip. so a 36,000 mile lease is just over a years driving.
I hear you 100%. But the challenge with that is the down payment vs the depreciation, ie: what you can unload it for when you need to and are you upside down. It’s a complex decision for sure. I guess everyone’s situation will be different. I just come down on being against those who say you should never lease (or never buy). Or, for that matter, never finance (Hi, Dave Ramsey) 😂
 

discostew

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I usually keep my cars after I pay off the loan. I drive them till they start to look like shit. Then just a little further. I think the big attraction to leasing expensive cars is driving something that you really can't afford to own. That was always the attraction in my opinion. Still is I suppose. But I do believe that leasing CAN be a better option for a small percentage of us.
When I buy a car I figure out how big a car payment I figure I can handle and only finance that. Sometimes you need to finance something, I've never been afraid to carry a little debt. Right now I need to do a loan because my credit score is dropping a little because I don't have any recent loans. The last car we bought was done under my wife's name only, also registered to her and not my license plates at all. I do that for 2 reasons. First I want my wife to have great credit if I die tomorrow. The other reason I do that is because Rover has balked at fixing my cars, I might get in one cheap, but you would be way better off than me when it comes to getting any kind of good will warranty action.


I hear you 100%. But the challenge with that is the down payment vs the depreciation, ie: what you can unload it for when you need to and are you upside down. It’s a complex decision for sure. I guess everyone’s situation will be different. I just come down on being against those who say you should never lease (or never buy). Or, for that matter, never finance (Hi, Dave Ramsey) 😂
 

discostew

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Northern Illinois
When you figure what the vehicle is going to be worth at the end of the same time period as the lease it's pretty shocking. I work with guys who know car values and have no reason to lie to me. They make nothing selling me a car. They help me know what the car is really worth. I checked on my '13 LR2 and was shocked and pissed. The car was 6 years old when I asked him and he told me it was worth $10K. I owed about $4500, so not upside down but stayed in it too long. At 10,000 I can't replace it with anything as good for that $$. If you get out of them in time you can stay a little ahead of the pain.

So what's the difference? You own it you loose your ass, You lease it you loose your ass. But You know going in what your going to loose.
 

bri

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Apr 20, 2004
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I think you would be surprised at the LTV of the average car loan.



I have yet to take a loan on any car. I cant imagine financing 84x1000 on a car that may not live that long
 

DiscoHasBeen

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Aug 7, 2016
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So did find a clip of a Defender on the trail. Dudes are a little goofy and not super challenging. The lower control arms stick down further in ratio to the wheel than a straight axel and that seems to cause some problems.

 
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jymmiejamz

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Dec 5, 2004
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If you don't put a lot of miles on a car leasing is good, but probably not better than owning it outright.
I don’t know how they do things where you are, but in the northeast everyone just rolls back the odometer. You get the 5k/year lease and pay the $1,000 or so to have the odometer rolled back. After living in NYC I was shocked at how common this is.
 

discostew

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Sep 14, 2010
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I don’t know how they do things where you are, but in the northeast everyone just rolls back the odometer. You get the 5k/year lease and pay the $1,000 or so to have the odometer rolled back. After living in NYC I was shocked at how common this is.
Yeah I worked Chicago most of my life. I'm not touching that shit. The best way I've seen people do it is have a switch that opens up the speedo/odometer signals. But now that that all gets sent on the can network not sure how you would single that out. Never really gave it much thought since I don't want to get locked up. I don't like cock.
 

SCSL

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Apr 27, 2005
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131
So did find a clip of a Defender on the trail. Dudes are a little goofy and not super challenging. The lower control arms stick down further in ratio to the wheel than a straight axel and that seems to cause some problems.

Not exactly a stunning endorsement for the Pretender off-road. (That said, the Toyota exceeded my expectations, which were not high.)
 

jymmiejamz

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Yeah I worked Chicago most of my life. I'm not touching that shit. The best way I've seen people do it is have a switch that opens up the speedo/odometer signals. But now that that all gets sent on the can network not sure how you would single that out. Never really gave it much thought since I don't want to get locked up. I don't like cock.
I wasn’t recommending that you do it, just saying that’s what they do in the northeast. They are just reprogramming to a lower mileage. Sometimes you can catch them because they forget to clear the fault codes and the dtcs will have mileage stamps greater than the displayed mileage
 

discostew

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Sep 14, 2010
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I'm not sure you could roll an odometer back on one of these things anyway. You would need to figure out a way to break up the speed signal and just not put the miles on it. I think the early LR2 stored vehicle mileage in the drivers door latch. The reason I think that is I put a latch in a car that was in an open box. The mileage updated to a lot more than it came in with. Also the Body controller and powertrain knows how many miles are on the car and are supposed to update all modules to the highest mileage on start up.
 

jymmiejamz

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Dec 5, 2004
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I'm not sure you could roll an odometer back on one of these things anyway. You would need to figure out a way to break up the speed signal and just not put the miles on it. I think the early LR2 stored vehicle mileage in the drivers door latch. The reason I think that is I put a latch in a car that was in an open box. The mileage updated to a lot more than it came in with. Also the Body controller and powertrain knows how many miles are on the car and are supposed to update all modules to the highest mileage on start up.
You can 100% roll the mileage back on newer rovers. Definitely up to 2017. I’m sure you can on 2018+ but I left nyc in 2018, so we were just getting those as I was leaving. The most egregious one I saw was a 2017 LWB RR that showed 2,300 miles on the odometer with worn out brakes, cords showing on the tires, and a totally worn out drivers seat. That car probably had 100k miles on it. Of course it had never been to a dealership except for the PDI.
 

DiscoHasBeen

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Aug 7, 2016
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Not exactly a stunning endorsement for the Pretender off-road. (That said, the Toyota exceeded my expectations, which were not high.)
Gotta love that old school yellow Defender though. If I were going to spend $$ on an offroad rig it would be something like that. Fuck all the push button, computer-controlled, dash screen bullshit.