4.2 engine build
- Thread starter skippy3k
- Start date
rover4x4 said:
MSD 8548
http://store.summitracing.com/partd...924456+4294840103+4294881256+115&autoview=sku
I kept the Rover ign module. Set the Mech advance, connected two wires and it fired right up.
Hi there,
Mustang injectors sounds interesting - but AFAICS what they can offer is nothing but a different flow rate. The Rover-Injectors are regarded as being relatively small so I guess the Mustang one´s are bigger.
If you can tune the ECU then all is fine. If not (like with OEM Ecu) you´ll get a setup where the ECU thinks it is controlling small injectors but in fact the bigger ones spray more fuel. The engine will run rich. Unless you compensate with less fuel pressure, for which I can see no reason.
It could be a differnent matter if he went from a smaller engine, say 3.9L to 4.6L, in this case you need more fuel. But I doubt you could calibrate the need for more fuel fine enough as to just get the bigger injectors (in this case sometimes a different fuel press. regulator is used allowing more pressure. That helps but it is crude. AFAIK the engine will not need more fuel over the whole Revs in a linear fashion.)
The answer could be Megasquirt. Which will offer the possibility to not only tune the engine yourself to your needs while being close to Plug´n´Play on a EFI-Rover, as well as allowing you to upgrade to Ford mid-90ies distributorless ignition system.
Cool stuff and ultra reliable. Waterproof. With trigger wheel on crank so precise timing forever. In case of interest I´d recommend the lr4x4.com as there a many people who run that setup for quite a while:
An A-Z guide: http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=15317
BTW: I am, as I determined, a somewhat boring guy when it comes to upgrade parts. And as a consequence I do not see a reason to modify the Rams in the plenum chamber. The are easy to shorten or polish or exchange with kevlar tubes which may be one reason why people deal with them. But I question it is worth any effort. Those who sell you modified tubes will tell that the airflow is improved. No one measured if a) there is a need for more air flow through them, b) if you loose torque in low-Revs as much as you gain higher RPM-performance, c) if there is any gain (if so then only at higher RPM) how big it is and d) if there´s not a restriction up- or downstream the air flow that laughs about effort with the ram tubes.
Generally speaking: Any modification does change something. You have something in mind that you´d want improved. All to easy to forget thinking about things you have and like and take for granted and if you´d loose some of them once you started modifying.
Mustang injectors sounds interesting - but AFAICS what they can offer is nothing but a different flow rate. The Rover-Injectors are regarded as being relatively small so I guess the Mustang one´s are bigger.
If you can tune the ECU then all is fine. If not (like with OEM Ecu) you´ll get a setup where the ECU thinks it is controlling small injectors but in fact the bigger ones spray more fuel. The engine will run rich. Unless you compensate with less fuel pressure, for which I can see no reason.
It could be a differnent matter if he went from a smaller engine, say 3.9L to 4.6L, in this case you need more fuel. But I doubt you could calibrate the need for more fuel fine enough as to just get the bigger injectors (in this case sometimes a different fuel press. regulator is used allowing more pressure. That helps but it is crude. AFAIK the engine will not need more fuel over the whole Revs in a linear fashion.)
The answer could be Megasquirt. Which will offer the possibility to not only tune the engine yourself to your needs while being close to Plug´n´Play on a EFI-Rover, as well as allowing you to upgrade to Ford mid-90ies distributorless ignition system.
Cool stuff and ultra reliable. Waterproof. With trigger wheel on crank so precise timing forever. In case of interest I´d recommend the lr4x4.com as there a many people who run that setup for quite a while:
An A-Z guide: http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=15317
BTW: I am, as I determined, a somewhat boring guy when it comes to upgrade parts. And as a consequence I do not see a reason to modify the Rams in the plenum chamber. The are easy to shorten or polish or exchange with kevlar tubes which may be one reason why people deal with them. But I question it is worth any effort. Those who sell you modified tubes will tell that the airflow is improved. No one measured if a) there is a need for more air flow through them, b) if you loose torque in low-Revs as much as you gain higher RPM-performance, c) if there is any gain (if so then only at higher RPM) how big it is and d) if there´s not a restriction up- or downstream the air flow that laughs about effort with the ram tubes.
Generally speaking: Any modification does change something. You have something in mind that you´d want improved. All to easy to forget thinking about things you have and like and take for granted and if you´d loose some of them once you started modifying.
MSD Ignition 8548 = $279.95
- - - - - - - - -
EDIS-8 kit = 85 pounds roughly 100$ (scrapyard-search in Ford V8?s will save money).
trigger wheel http://trigger-wheels.com/store/index1.html = 35pounds = roughly 50$
in addition you?ll need a Megajolt - Ecu if you would just want to control the timing.
http://www.autosportlabs.net/Megajolt_Lite_Jr.
Price is 160$.
So in the end the cost the same. Ok, EDIS will need more fabrication. And another set of ignition cables. But it rewards with severeal advantages. IMHO.
If you decided to not only control ignition but fuel also (best done when changing displacement, because re-chipping is expensive too), then you need Megasquirt instead of Megajolt-box.
Good enough is Megasquirt1 which costs completely built and tested: 240-320$ (the latter price is for the better mainboard) or 145-180$ as a kit to assemble yourself.
http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/megasquirt-kits-c-27.html
- - - - - - - - -
EDIS-8 kit = 85 pounds roughly 100$ (scrapyard-search in Ford V8?s will save money).
trigger wheel http://trigger-wheels.com/store/index1.html = 35pounds = roughly 50$
in addition you?ll need a Megajolt - Ecu if you would just want to control the timing.
http://www.autosportlabs.net/Megajolt_Lite_Jr.
Price is 160$.
So in the end the cost the same. Ok, EDIS will need more fabrication. And another set of ignition cables. But it rewards with severeal advantages. IMHO.
If you decided to not only control ignition but fuel also (best done when changing displacement, because re-chipping is expensive too), then you need Megasquirt instead of Megajolt-box.
Good enough is Megasquirt1 which costs completely built and tested: 240-320$ (the latter price is for the better mainboard) or 145-180$ as a kit to assemble yourself.
http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/megasquirt-kits-c-27.html
ptschram
Well-known member
Jesus Hendrik, let's get this truck back on the road before we suggest Mega-*!
WRT the injectors, the Ford injectors have the same flow rate as the Rovers. I've used more sets of them than you can imagine with no problems, plug-n-play!
WRT the injectors, the Ford injectors have the same flow rate as the Rovers. I've used more sets of them than you can imagine with no problems, plug-n-play!
Been running the Ford injectors from Five-O Motorsports for approx 100k miles, no problem at all and no difference in MPG or performance over stock. MY OEM injectors were leaking at 70K, replaced with the ones from FIVE-O only because they were cheap, truck just turned 184K last night with these injectors.
Not suggesting that he spend $$$$ on extras right now, focus on the internals to build the best bottom end he can, (ARP, Balancing, polishing etc etc. These are also extra's, but, cannot be added later!) all the other stuff can be added later.
I just mentioned MSD because it has made such an over-all improvement in my truck. Cheap compared to the OEM replacement, Very basic, easy to install, reliable, and CAP/rotors are cheap.
Not suggesting that he spend $$$$ on extras right now, focus on the internals to build the best bottom end he can, (ARP, Balancing, polishing etc etc. These are also extra's, but, cannot be added later!) all the other stuff can be added later.
I just mentioned MSD because it has made such an over-all improvement in my truck. Cheap compared to the OEM replacement, Very basic, easy to install, reliable, and CAP/rotors are cheap.
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ptschram
Well-known member
Yes, availability and definitely price. Any Bosch style injector with 16 ohm impedance will work. Stock is 19 pph, they are available from 16 pph to "Way-too-big-for-a-Rover" flows. The ECU cannot compensate for anything greater than about 21 without more involved fuel pressure control, or another EMS.
Boy, talk about a rebuild and all sorts of suggestions come out.
However, I would suggest the following before dreaming up the rebuild.
1.0 Tear down and evaluate the following;
1.1 Crankcase
1.2 Bores
1.3 heads
Based on the results, now you can set a target for what you want.
Offroad torque ( more torque at lower RPM range)
Road (basically stock)
Fast road engine (had to throw that in )
Once you have made a determination, then plan on the following;
I certainly would do a small bottom end job, bearings and a small regrind on crank make sure you have bearing matching regrind, usually the shop will source of supply specifications.
Now is time to make sure block is nice a clean, finish with a small cross hatch, and new rings go stock. Please make sure to follow RR manuals, there quite good actually. Read it once before commencing.
If redoing cam, I guess you will have the shop do the cam bearings...
Once bottom is done, focus on the heads, theres a few games you can play depending on type and thickness of headgasket. You can get a small 5 thou off the deck and raise compression.
Do get the heads flowed and ported.
As for cams well be very careful what you are getting and take a look at the chart supplied with cam. I do not know that cam and thus cannot comment on your choice. But if you want a stock engine, why not stick with what worked!
While you can enhance a bit here and there, the basic specs will work quite well for your application.
Read before you start, take your time, have good tools, and especiallly a very good torque wrench in 3/8 and 1/2 if not a 3/4 .. If doing a head job, look into spring depressor, and ring depressors for the pistons. Give your self plenty of time and ohh some of that platique for guaging bearing clearance. This is so improtant to get this on the money.
But please do not buy anything before you had a chance to get a good shop look at that engine, and talk to these guys their usually quite helpful.
TG
However, I would suggest the following before dreaming up the rebuild.
1.0 Tear down and evaluate the following;
1.1 Crankcase
1.2 Bores
1.3 heads
Based on the results, now you can set a target for what you want.
Offroad torque ( more torque at lower RPM range)
Road (basically stock)
Fast road engine (had to throw that in
)Once you have made a determination, then plan on the following;
I certainly would do a small bottom end job, bearings and a small regrind on crank make sure you have bearing matching regrind, usually the shop will source of supply specifications.
Now is time to make sure block is nice a clean, finish with a small cross hatch, and new rings go stock. Please make sure to follow RR manuals, there quite good actually. Read it once before commencing.
If redoing cam, I guess you will have the shop do the cam bearings...
Once bottom is done, focus on the heads, theres a few games you can play depending on type and thickness of headgasket. You can get a small 5 thou off the deck and raise compression.
Do get the heads flowed and ported.
As for cams well be very careful what you are getting and take a look at the chart supplied with cam. I do not know that cam and thus cannot comment on your choice. But if you want a stock engine, why not stick with what worked!
While you can enhance a bit here and there, the basic specs will work quite well for your application.
Read before you start, take your time, have good tools, and especiallly a very good torque wrench in 3/8 and 1/2 if not a 3/4 .. If doing a head job, look into spring depressor, and ring depressors for the pistons. Give your self plenty of time and ohh some of that platique for guaging bearing clearance. This is so improtant to get this on the money.
But please do not buy anything before you had a chance to get a good shop look at that engine, and talk to these guys their usually quite helpful.
TG
My uncle owns a BMW shop, so I have a great resource there in regards to questions and good machine shops. I will take the engine out, examine what I have and go from there.
Cambo, yes I was planning on replacing the injectors and even shortening the air ram tubes. I know it's been debated whether you can see any improvement, but I haven't heard any negatives. There has been a few threads on the topic with some convincing experiences. I wasn't planning on changing the distributor at this point.
I will post pictures as I go. I usually take pictures as I do engine work, but I figure you guys might enjoy seeing engine shots. I know I do. If all goes well, I will be pulling the engine this coming weekend.
Cambo, yes I was planning on replacing the injectors and even shortening the air ram tubes. I know it's been debated whether you can see any improvement, but I haven't heard any negatives. There has been a few threads on the topic with some convincing experiences. I wasn't planning on changing the distributor at this point.
I will post pictures as I go. I usually take pictures as I do engine work, but I figure you guys might enjoy seeing engine shots. I know I do. If all goes well, I will be pulling the engine this coming weekend.
It has begun....
The only notable discovery at this point is that most of the tubes in a ram housing were loose and/or not even seated. Two were rolling around. I've got most everything disconnected at this point. Tomorrow I will be hoisting it out.
The only notable discovery at this point is that most of the tubes in a ram housing were loose and/or not even seated. Two were rolling around. I've got most everything disconnected at this point. Tomorrow I will be hoisting it out.
Attachments
ptschram
Well-known member
I am fighting with the bell housing bolts now. Anyone happen to know how many there are? I see the two on top, and the two on each side near the bottom.
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By the way, there are 8 bolts. And I hate each of those bolts. But it's out. Too tired to put it on the stand now...I will do it later. I found that dropping the oil pan really helps accessing the 4 bolts through the flywheel. Someone remind me again why I am doing this.
Attachments
ptschram
Well-known member
Cambo said:
Two clues.
First off, it has the valve in the heater hoses. These were only found on '94 and early '95 Discos and very early production of the serpentine RRCs.
Also, the IAC valve connector is round and not flat.
I'm a Rover-Nerd! John Gadd may be Rover Dude, but I'm Rover Nerd!
