4.2 W/ Crower in a 95 Disco

[twosevens]

Have any of you folks dealt with this conversion? Top end rebuilt with the Crower 229 and I can't seem to get the timing right (i think). It seems to be running a little too hot for my liking and would love to get it under control a bit. New timing chain, gears, cap & rotor, wires, heads machined, injectors gone through by a local injector spot, temp sensor, O2's, radiator, water pump, thermostat, pressure cap yet the heat is still a bit unruly. The gauge inside is showing normal, and the infrared thermal gauge shows 210 at the thermostat housing. The plugs are also showing that i'm running rich so I figure it might be a timing issue or efi issue with the cam. I basically would like to know how advanced others are running their 229 or equivalent in a 4.2, or what issues others have had running this particular cam in their 4.2. I also thought I might try replacing my 3.9 ecu for a 4.2 to see if that might make any difference... I don't know.

Thanks in advance for any input!

 

[ptschram]

Have any of you folks dealt with this conversion? Top end rebuilt with the Crower 229 and I can't seem to get the timing right (i think). It seems to be running a little too hot for my liking and would love to get it under control a bit. New timing chain, gears, cap & rotor, wires, heads machined, injectors gone through by a local injector spot, temp sensor, O2's, radiator, water pump, thermostat, pressure cap yet the heat is still a bit unruly. The gauge inside is showing normal, and the infrared thermal gauge shows 210 at the thermostat housing. The plugs are also showing that i'm running rich so I figure it might be a timing issue or efi issue with the cam. I basically would like to know how advanced others are running their 229 or equivalent in a 4.2, or what issues others have had running this particular cam in their 4.2. I also thought I might try replacing my 3.9 ecu for a 4.2 to see if that might make any difference... I don't know.

Thanks in advance for any input!

Radiator condition?

Fan clutch?

Both in stock, ready to ship.

 

[twosevens]

Thanks for the reply and the offer. The radiator is new as well as the fan clutch. Basically all of the normal culprits for overheating have been sorted out. I really believe it is a timing / ignition or injector issue. The base idle on the doner engine (4.2) has been tampered with so i might try my 3.9 plenum to see if that makes any difference before messing with the timing again.

 

[ptschram]

That's not it-base idle.

What does your scan tool say! Oxygen sensors pegged?

 

[twosevens]

I don't have a scan tool, i am more of a home mechanic that used to help out at a local independent land rover shop. I did get codes 15 and 17 so i replaced the throttle position sensor and made sure the fuel temp plug was in all the way and the codes have not been back after reset. I replaced the o2 sensors with some ngk's i purchased from amazon, however i don't know how well they are working.

With the 229 cam in the 4.2, where would you have your timing set compared to the book, and what kind of extra exhaust heat might one find?

Thanks!

 

[ptschram]

The 229 is not a cam I would use, go big or don't go

That's basically a stock cam

 

[twosevens]

I was told it was very similar to the original cam used in the earlier 4.2's, that's why i went with the 229. I did think about that 230 but i heard they caused problems with over-fueling and were harder to tune. I can't find info on the the the cam used in the earlier versions to compare though, so i wasn't sure how aggressive the 229 was in comparison. Either way, the Crower is a bit cheaper than a Rover cam so i'm happy. Well, other than the issue i currently have. I'll mess with the timing a bit more.

 

[Buddy]

The 229 is not a cam I would use, go big or don't go

That's basically a stock cam

What does the 230 offer over the 229? I'm finally going to do a refresh on mine soon and I was definitely thinking of going 229. From everything I've read the 229 offers more low end torque than the 230 and the 230 offers more high end power. It's a dedicated trail truck and very rarely sees anything over 2,500rpms.

 

[ptschram]

Either way, the Crower is a bit cheaper than a Rover cam so i'm happy. Well, other than the issue i currently have. I'll mess with the timing a bit more.

Not if you buy your stock camshaft from me

Set the timing to spec, otherwise, you'll have pinging or hard hot starts.

Without any way to determine if we are lean/rich (other than brute-force methods like looking at the tailpipe or smelling the exhaust) we can't tell if the oxygen sensors are doing their job or if the injectors are not responding to ECU control (leaking or clogged).

A secondary aneroid temp gauge would be a great idea so that we know exactly what the coolant temp really is. Your non-contact thermometer could easily be mis-reading by 20-30 degrees F.

 

[ptschram]

What does the 230 offer over the 229? I'm finally going to do a refresh on mine soon and I was definitely thinking of going 229. From everything I've read the 229 offers more low end torque than the 230 and the 230 offers more high end power. It's a dedicated trail truck and very rarely sees anything over 2,500rpms.

Neither is a particularly extreme departure from stock, but the 230 is more likely to result in a perceived increase of power.

A 230 in a DII on gravel will cause the ABS/HDC/TC go nuts

I've put 230s in every Rover V8 (3.5, 3.9, 4.2, 4.0, 4.6) with great results. It's a nice camshaft that will produce the perceived increase in power, won't destroy fuel economy and will give a nice exhaust note.

I put a 230 in a 4.2 in one of my '88 RRCs. It has a definite exhaust note that is pleasant to my ears (and Army Rover-LOL)

 

[4Runner]

You can use an ohm meter on your water temp sensor with the sensor unplugged to tell how hot your coolant is. There is a chart on some of the 14CUX forums. 100 - 200 ohms is 212 degrees. 200 - 300 is 176. That's all I remember but it keeps going down to freezing. It's was either the RPI or the British V8 site. There's a lot of info if you google 14CUX. I run 6 BTDC. on both of mine with good results.

 

[pdxrovermech]

if only there were any good rover shops in Portland you could take it to...

 

[twosevens]

if only there were any good rover shops in Portland you could take it to...

Thanks, but I am not quite there yet. I thought I'd throw out a few questions on here and keep sorting through the issues before conceding to a shop. Thanks for the solicitation though. Which shop are you at?

Also, thanks for all the other suggestions, it's appreciated!

 

[ptschram]

You can use an ohm meter on your water temp sensor with the sensor unplugged to tell how hot your coolant is. There is a chart on some of the 14CUX forums. 100 - 200 ohms is 212 degrees. 200 - 300 is 176. That's all I remember but it keeps going down to freezing. It's was either the RPI or the British V8 site. There's a lot of info if you google 14CUX. I run 6 BTDC. on both of mine with good results.

Sometimes I read stuff online that makes me laugh uproariously.

Let us not forget that we are working on 20 year-old trucks. I do not trust sensors in a 20 year-old truck to be at all worthy of my trust or reliance.

Portland probably has more Rover shops than any town I've been in. Some of them are better than others and Neal's is likely the best. I probably should have stayed and joined that team-if they'd have had me.

 

[pdxrovermech]

have you checked it with a heat gun? is it really running hot? are you using the wrong temp sensor so that your gauge reads wrong? Do your condenser fans kick on? Have you checked the Ohm readings on your sensors? Timing is straight forward and should be the least of your issues.

 

[4Runner]

What's up with that PT? He stated that he replaced the temp sensor with a new one. Why wouldn't it be a valid way of reading the coolant temp?

 

[ptschram]

What's up with that PT? He stated that he replaced the temp sensor with a new one. Why wouldn't it be a valid way of reading the coolant temp?

When trying to diagnose such things, a secondary (or in this case, primary) means of measuring the condition of concern is always a good idea. It's not as though the temp indicators on these trucks haven't been problematic from day one.

Let's try to rule out as many things as we can, Even using a cheapie non-contact thermometer can introduce variables and error as we are only talking a few percent difference between the indicated temperature and the measured temperature.

Until we have a real means to measure the coolant temp directly, we don't really know if there is a problem.

 

[discostew]

Hows the viscous fan clutch. Any wobble or looseness felt if you try to move the fan on its bearing? PT makes a very good point in saying we don't really know if there is a problem. Lets say the coolant temp is 210. That"s about the temp a newer car would turn on the cooling fan anyway.

 

[rover4x4]

how hot is it running, 229 vs 230 id vote for a 230 it sounds way better than the 229 in the 4.2