96 D1 Front Driver's Door Power Lock Not Locking w/ Remote
- Thread starter KevLar
- Start date
It's nice to know that my own problems have generated such a flurry of DIY projectsScott said:
Look forward to hearing about your results. You might want to post a new thread with an appropriate title (e.g.: "Repairing Door Lock Actuators Using Aftermarket Parts"), and also include the hyperlink and part # for the kit you ordered from Parts Express. That way, someone doing a search will be able to get all the info they need from your experience
Cheers !
Kev
That's what I have been doing too, but as I said in the original message, I only realized that the driver's door was not working by chancecjw said:Kev,
I Should have gotten to this party sooner... I have the same issue with the drivers door. It's the wiring loom in the door that's the culprit for me. There are a couple of broken wires, and if I jiggle the wires about with the door all apart I can make the accuator work. No jiggle, no work.
My solution... open the door with the key. One day I'll fix it.
When I used the remote, I would hear the usual door locking sounds and the signal lights would flash, and the alarm LED in the dash would also flash, indicating that the system was armed, yet the driver's door was unlocked ! Who knows how long this had been going on before I noticed ?!So where exactly are your wires broken ? Since my motor appears to be fine now that I've tested it, I think my problem must be related to wiring since the power lock fuse is also not the issue. I might have the same problem you do, and there might be a common flaw in the wire routing that makes them susceptible to breaking...
If I know where your wires are broken I'll be able to check there first, assuming I'm not getting power in my harness...
Thanks !
Kev
Mine are broken about three inches from the edge of the drivers door. If they aren't held in properly (there is a zap strap holding it to the door frame that I'm not sure is original) the window will strike the harness; the first time I had it apart I didn't get it back properly and the window would tap against the harness on the way down, locking all of the doors!
I also found that if I wiggled the wires enough I could lock and unlock the other doors as well, so it's more than one wire that's broken at that location. It's definately a weak point, but I don't know whether it was the PO or not.
Somewhere around I have a spare actuator... I assumed the old one was the problem only to discover the "new" (used) one didn't work, either.
If it makes you feel any better, your alarm was armed and would have gone off if someone (or you) had opened the door. Ask me how I know...
CJW
I also found that if I wiggled the wires enough I could lock and unlock the other doors as well, so it's more than one wire that's broken at that location. It's definately a weak point, but I don't know whether it was the PO or not.
Somewhere around I have a spare actuator... I assumed the old one was the problem only to discover the "new" (used) one didn't work, either.
If it makes you feel any better, your alarm was armed and would have gone off if someone (or you) had opened the door. Ask me how I know...
CJW
Thanks for the info ! I will have a look at the harness in that area to see if there are any signs of unusual kink or wear. On my driver's door there was a zap strap right beside the actuator pulling the harness connector onto the inner door skin, and also a short zap strap holding the actuator harness. I did not bother to look further towards the front edge of the door for more straps. The vinyl draft sheet and sticky putty get pretty hard to remove when it's cold, so I only peeled away what was necessary to remove the actuatorcjw said:
So you are saying that with all the doors locked, the alarm will still go off if the door latch is opened even when there is no actuator ? That means there must be another sensor connected to the door latch somewhere, or perhaps it's connected to the door light switch ?
The only startling experience I had with the alarm was the time I wanted to see if I could leave the vehicle running in the winter with the doors locked... I removed the remote from the keychain and left the key in the ignition, then tried to lock the doors with the remote and the alarm went off immediately ! I guess that means if you get a remote starter, it must defeat that part of the alarm system, allowing the engine to run while still keeping the doors locked.
Thanks again ! I'll update when I get more results !
Kev
If your actuator looks like it's working properly make sure the linkage is set up properly. The fulcrum point which has the up/down linkage is fairly sensitive to how it receives positive action from the actuator. The plastic bushing can wear out. At least, mine did. So i replaced it with a bolt and brass bushing. Should last longer than the rest of the vehicle. If you have more questions I can explain further.....
I think it's the door light switch.
If I unlock the front passenger lock with the key the lock itself will physically unlock, but it won't disarm the alarm. On a date one night, being the gentleman that I am, I unlocked her door first and opened it to let her in.... only to fumble with the key fob trying to shut off the alarm that was now sounding.
I've always wondered about the running vehicle-key fob thing... now I don't have to try it myself!
Chris
If I unlock the front passenger lock with the key the lock itself will physically unlock, but it won't disarm the alarm. On a date one night, being the gentleman that I am, I unlocked her door first and opened it to let her in.... only to fumble with the key fob trying to shut off the alarm that was now sounding.
I've always wondered about the running vehicle-key fob thing... now I don't have to try it myself!
Chris
Update - the motor swap went well. Very little modification was needed to install the new motor. Here's a tuturial I created for swaping the motor. It's on my Cardomain site.
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3002336/9
But (and this a big but) I have a problem. Due to loosing a vital internal piece of the actuator, I can not install my newly rebuild actuator. The piece I'm missing is the white adaptor piece that goes in between the shafts of the actuator. I've looked everywhere and can't find it. I wouldn't be surprise if I had discard the piece not knowing what it was.
From looking at this pic you can see the piece I'm refering to. It fits right under the actual shaft that goes in/out.
http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/2/web/3002000-3002999/3002336_295.jpg?121617-319
Does anyone have a known bad actuator they want to sell. The new motor has been tested and pass. I've come too far to be stuck on technicality like this. Please assist.
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3002336/9
But (and this a big but) I have a problem. Due to loosing a vital internal piece of the actuator, I can not install my newly rebuild actuator. The piece I'm missing is the white adaptor piece that goes in between the shafts of the actuator. I've looked everywhere and can't find it. I wouldn't be surprise if I had discard the piece not knowing what it was.
From looking at this pic you can see the piece I'm refering to. It fits right under the actual shaft that goes in/out.
http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/2/web/3002000-3002999/3002336_295.jpg?121617-319
Does anyone have a known bad actuator they want to sell. The new motor has been tested and pass. I've come too far to be stuck on technicality like this. Please assist.
Roverjoe said:
I understand generally what you are saying. Without having the actuator and linkage setup in front of me, I can imagine that it's possible for the actuator to be out of position enough that the plunger would not trip the linkage to lock the door.
I will be pretty pissed if it turns out that I went through all this, including opening the actuator housing, because the actuator was out of position...
I'll have a chance to check out the wiring tomorrow...
Thanks for the tip !
Kev
If true, this would mean that the door light switch is actually more of a door position sensor... It not only controls the courtesy light, but also reports door position to the alarm system. I don't have access to my RAVE wiring diagrams at the moment, but it's something I'll check later out of interest.cjw said:
I also once tried to unlock the passenger side door with the key not long after I bought the truck, only to set off the alarm
I'm not sure if that should be considered a design flaw or a high security feature. I guess it's nice to know that someone trying to pick the lock of a door other than the driver's will set off the alarm Also, I think I recall trying to lock the doors from inside while the vehicle was running by pushing down the door lock tab on the driver's door. All that happens is that the doors lock and immediately unlock again, but no alarm. There is a school of thought that says it's safer to have the doors locked while driving because in the event of a serious collision, the doors will not open accidentally and weaken the structure of the vehicle. If you are going to do this with (any other vehicle), make sure you have one of those window breaking tools in case you need to get out in a hurry and the doors are jammed. I have one of those combination window breakers and seat belt slicers in my center console, as well as a fire extinguished on the floor of the back seat.
No, I'm not paranoid, I'm just unlucky
Kev
CandiMan said:
That's a good article, and hopefully folks here with the same problem will refer to it ! If you haven't already done so, make sure you post a new article here with an appropriate title (e.g. "Replacing Door Lock Actuator Motor Using Aftermarket Parts") and include the hyperlink to your article inside.
One thing I would point about about your article, based on my own situation, is that your technique jumps right into splitting the actuator casing to check the motor... In my case, the motor was fine and I opened the actuator casing for nothing... I would suggest changing your text slightly and add an earlier step that tells people that they should first bench test their motor after removing the actuator from the truck. The wires that power the motor are PINK and ORANGE. The are located next to each other in the connector on the same side as the black wire.
As for your white "adaptor" piece, it's actually a spring loaded "catch" or "tooth" that sticks out from the top of the actuator plunger shaft. It would be quite difficult to make a replacement because it's a pretty intricate part...
If you look earlier in this thread, you'll see that there are at least 3 members ("cjw", "Papillon" and "Scott") who might be able to help. Why don't you PM them and ask ? If you are lucky, one of them can crack open a dead actuator and mail you just the little white "catch" which should be a lot cheaper than mailing the whole actuator. If that doesn't work, then I suggest you post a new thread here and ask someone to sell you a dead actuator, or better yet, pull out the little white catch for you... There must be more than a few folks here that have dead actuators they'd be willing to rip apart for you.
Cheers !
Kev
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Well, I tested the harness in the driver's door and wouldn't you know it, there's power going to the motor when I unlock the doors with the remote My multimeter was registering a very short pulse of over 10 VDC to the 2 motor power pins.
So the motor is fine, and the power to the motor seems OK, which means that the problem probably has something to do with alignment of the linkages.
The next step is to temporarily reassemble the motor and reinstall the assembly, and confirm that the actuator is cycling through its full travel. If it is, then I'll have to fiddle with the actuator position and linkages to make the door lock engage properly.
The lesson for anybody who runs into a situation that seems to be a "failed actuator", do yourselves a favor and don't assume that the actuator or the harness is the problem ! Before taking the actuator out, have a close look at the actuator with the inner door panel removed.
I was led to suspect that my actuator was fried based on posts I read here, and while actuators apparently do fail, it's not necessarily going to be the cause of a door lock problem in all cases !
So don't do like I did and jump to conclusions by ripping things apart until you've taken the time to go through the possible causes methodically !
Kev
My multimeter was registering a very short pulse of over 10 VDC to the 2 motor power pins.So the motor is fine, and the power to the motor seems OK, which means that the problem probably has something to do with alignment of the linkages.
The next step is to temporarily reassemble the motor and reinstall the assembly, and confirm that the actuator is cycling through its full travel. If it is, then I'll have to fiddle with the actuator position and linkages to make the door lock engage properly.
The lesson for anybody who runs into a situation that seems to be a "failed actuator", do yourselves a favor and don't assume that the actuator or the harness is the problem ! Before taking the actuator out, have a close look at the actuator with the inner door panel removed.
I was led to suspect that my actuator was fried based on posts I read here, and while actuators apparently do fail, it's not necessarily going to be the cause of a door lock problem in all cases !
So don't do like I did and jump to conclusions by ripping things apart until you've taken the time to go through the possible causes methodically !
Kev
I think that most of the actuator problems seen on discoweb are actually linkage problems. Considering how finicky the linkage & trip point actually are to go from unlocked to locked. With the door skin off it's fairly easy to see whether or not the plunger on the actuator is working properly.
In my opinion the whole design is poor. The stress point of the whole system is a cheap 1/8" nylon busing.
In my opinion the whole design is poor. The stress point of the whole system is a cheap 1/8" nylon busing.
Roverjoe said:
Yup, there are plenty of examples of poor design in this vehicle. The ABS sensors have no stress relief for the cable so the wires break at the top of the sensor after a lot of flexing, and nylon rollers on the window regulators split under load. All are examples of underdesign given that the components they support would last a lifetime !!
Most of the problems with this truck are related to the "add-ons" like ABS, power windows cup holder tray, etc, as though they didn't bother putting much effort into their design.
Kev, first I would like to say I'm sorry your motor and harness has tested ok, considering it was me who suggested it was the motor. Second, I took your suggestion and changed the wording in my tuturial. Along with checking for proper voltage (before cracking the actuator open) I also mentioned to check for proper linkage adjustment. I took a trip to a salvage yard out of town to grab some misc interior parts and a actuator if they had one available. I was able to get the spring loaded clip from the tail gate actuator and installed it into my actuator. After getting the spring load clip into the actuator I zip tied the covers back together. It doesn't look pretty, but my LF actuator is not working as design. Problem resolved.
Attachments
CandiMan said:
No probs about my actuator teardown... I'm a grownup and I should have spent a little more time at the start making sure I assessed the situation properly
I've been working on cars long enough to have learned that by now, and I think your tutorial will be a much more useful reference now that you've added the preliminary bench test AND the linkage check that I should have mentioned !Glad you got your little white bit too ! I'm wondering why you didn't use some sort of epoxy or perhaps hot glue instead of zip ties to put the actuator casing back together ? Are you worried you'll have to open it again ?
Also... as I mentioned in my last update, I checked the door harness and found that the 2 wires to the motor were providing power when I activated the remote. With my digital multimeter, I saw a relatively quick pulse of voltage to at least 10 VDC (= and - depending on whether it was locking or unlocking). The pulse was so short that I could not get an accurate reading of the max voltage, but it did go over 10 V. It was pretty cold outside and I wasn't feeling too motivated, so I took that to mean that the wiring was fine and my actuator problem was in fact due to a linkage alignment issue. Today I put the actuator casing back together temporarily using a hose clamp which is plenty strong, and plugged the actuator into the wiring harness, and to my surprise and frustration, nothing happened with the actuator when I tried the remote... All the other doors locked/unlocked, but nothing from the problem actuator
So I'm wondering how you put your actuator back together. Specifically the grey "plate" with the geared teeth that sits on top of the motor gears... I spent several minutes looking at this little piece that has a tooth at one end and obviously interacts with the white plastic catch (the part that you lost from your assembly). I could not figure out how the lock-unlock cycle works. I can see how the geared plate will be shuttled in both directions depending on the direction of rotation of the motor, but the catch only seems to work in one direction... I'm thinking that since the white catch on the actuator plunger is spring loaded, when the two catches run into each other going forward, they can clear under each other if there's enough pull to overcome the spring on the white catch...
One thing I' like to ask is how you positioned this grey geared plate on the motor gears when you reassembled your actuator. I just set the actuator plunger in all the way and set the plate on top of the gears as though it had just completed a "retract" cycle, but maybe that's my problem...
I also checked the mini switch inside the actuator when I had the case opened, and it seems to be fine, but I've had my doubts that this switch had anything to do with the other locks from the start... Since all the other door locks are working without the driver's door actuator working, it seems that this switch simply reverses the polarity of the motor when the plunger reaches the end of its travel.
Anyway, if you could let me know if you did anything specific in reassembling your actuator, it might help me figure out my problem. Also, do you remember what kind of voltages you were getting from your actuator harness, or did you just use a test light ?
Thanks for your updates and any answers you can provide !
Kev
Lets see if I can answer your questions.
The reason I used zip ties was because they were readily available in my tool box. We have a glue gun that the Mrs. use for her craft hobbies but that wouldn't be strong enough to hold the cover together. The actuator motor creates a lot of torque which wants to spread the cover apart. That's why it was so hard to seperate the factory heat weld. I guess I could have used those 2-part epoxy but I didn't think about it.
When I assembled my actuator, I did not place the grey "plate" in no particular position. I figured once the actuator goes through a lock and unlock cycle, it will put the plate in the correct position. As you stated, the plate does interact with the spring loaded clip. Both the plate and spring loaded clip keeps tension on the rod when in the lock and unlock position.
One thing I realized, in order for the actuator to work properly, the two halves of the cover needs to be tight with no flexing. The operation of the spring loaded clip and plate depends on a tight cover.
Like yourself I've yet to figure out how the micro switch inside a actuator works. But I think it comes into play when you use the door key to unlock/lock the doors. Since you are manually unlocking the door with the key, it moves the plunger to activate or de-activate the micro-switch, which sends a signal to the locking system to lock or unlock the other locks. This is why the other locks will still work with the LF actuator disconnected. At that point the locking system is getting it's signal from the remote instead of the door key.
No I did not use the voltmeter to check for voltage, I just used my test light.
The reason I used zip ties was because they were readily available in my tool box. We have a glue gun that the Mrs. use for her craft hobbies but that wouldn't be strong enough to hold the cover together. The actuator motor creates a lot of torque which wants to spread the cover apart. That's why it was so hard to seperate the factory heat weld. I guess I could have used those 2-part epoxy but I didn't think about it.
When I assembled my actuator, I did not place the grey "plate" in no particular position. I figured once the actuator goes through a lock and unlock cycle, it will put the plate in the correct position. As you stated, the plate does interact with the spring loaded clip. Both the plate and spring loaded clip keeps tension on the rod when in the lock and unlock position.
One thing I realized, in order for the actuator to work properly, the two halves of the cover needs to be tight with no flexing. The operation of the spring loaded clip and plate depends on a tight cover.
Like yourself I've yet to figure out how the micro switch inside a actuator works. But I think it comes into play when you use the door key to unlock/lock the doors. Since you are manually unlocking the door with the key, it moves the plunger to activate or de-activate the micro-switch, which sends a signal to the locking system to lock or unlock the other locks. This is why the other locks will still work with the LF actuator disconnected. At that point the locking system is getting it's signal from the remote instead of the door key.
No I did not use the voltmeter to check for voltage, I just used my test light.
CandiMan said:
Understood. The hose clamp I used to temporarily secure the case halves is very strong, but when I put the actuator back together permanently I will use fiberglass tape and polyester resin around the seam. This will be very strong, seal the seam and be fairly easy to remove if I ever have to open the case again. One thing I would suggest for you is to run a bead of silicone or other sealant around the seam of your casing to prevent water from getting into the works and corroding your motor or contacts ! There's a fair amount of water that can make its way into the door from above, specially if your window seals are not new.
CandiMan said:
OK, I think I have a decent idea of how the mechanical system works
With my hose clamp in the middle of the actuator body, I can see that the 2 ends are actually bowed up a little, which would probably interfere with the proper operation, and also lead to premature gear wear. When I put the casing back together I will use work clamps to tightly squeeze the casing together as I apply the epoxy/glass fiber tape.CandiMan said:
Good call on this one ! I have yet to have a good look at the actuator while installed with all the linkages connected because it's been too cold for sitting around... Your explanation makes sense, as it would explain why the actuator on the driver's door is the only one that has 5 wires instead of the normal 2 ! It seems that the way the power lock system is set up, the central locking system will unlock the doors regardless of the driver's door actuator. I tested the lock making sure to depress the door light button on the driver's door to fool the system into thinking the door was shut, and my remote unlocked all the other doors despite the fact that the driver's door actuator was not working.
CandiMan said:
OK, thanks anyway. Unfortunately, I still have to figure out why my actuator is not working
The motor seems fine, the harness is getting power (maybe not for a complete cycle though), and the mini switch is working. I will try bench testing the assembly to see if I can hear the motor spin and the gears turn. Maybe the reason it didn't work when I did a quick test on the vehicle was that the plunger was in the wrong position and was telling the lock system that the door was already unlocked...Thanks again !
Kev
I did some further bench testing of my actuator last night and found that the motor was not working. This was after I had opened the actuator casing and confirmed that the motor was working last week...
Since I have the casing only temporarily closed, I popped it open and looked a the motor... I applied CD power to it and... nothing So I removed the motor from it's position in the casing and spun the shaft a little. Reapplied voltage and it worked, but got a little wisp of smoke
I thought I had fried the motor since my 12 V power supply is actually putting out 13.8 VDC at 1.75 A, but it seems to be OK, and the slightly higher voltage is not much different that the output of a typical battery. I'm still a little confused as to the reason for the smoke though...
Meanwhile, I have figured out a little more on the operation of the actuator. There is NO internal travel switch to stop the motor when the actuator plunger reaches the end of its travel (in or out). It seems that the travel is controlled by the central locking module. In other words, the voltage sent to the driver's door actuator is only a very short pulse, which spins the motor a few revolutions and stops. The short pulse is enough to move the actuator plunger in and out sufficiently to lock and unlock the door. The mini switch inside the driver's door actuator registers the state of the plunger, and then opens or closes a circuit controlling the other doors accordingly.
So, a note to anyone bench testing an (unopened) actuator: When you apply voltage (12 VDC) to your actuator from the pins on the connector to test the motor, make sure it is only a short (momentary) contact. You should hear the motor spin and see the plunger move slightly. You can then reverse the polarity and give it another short pulse to confirm that the actuator works in the opposite direction. If you leave the power on the actuator, the motor will just spin until it drives the plunger off the gears at the end of its travel. While this does not damage any of the internal components, you will need to pull or push the plunger slightly to get the plunger plate teeth to feed back into the gears, and then give your actuator a short pulse of power to make sure it is engaged properly with the gears...
Based on what I've said, it seems that the position of the plunger inside the casing after reassembly is sort of irrelevant since you can easily pull or push the plunger in and out without power. Once the actuator is bolted back into the door, the positioning of the locking linkage with respect to the plunger will determine where the actuator plunger should be. So assuming that nothing is bent or warped out of shape, the plunger should mate up with the linkage and work without needing to worry about the plunger position, however, it will probably be necessary to tweak the position of the actuator casing itself to ensure that the locking linkage extends and retracts enough to actually operate the locks !
Kev
Since I have the casing only temporarily closed, I popped it open and looked a the motor... I applied CD power to it and... nothing
So I removed the motor from it's position in the casing and spun the shaft a little. Reapplied voltage and it worked, but got a little wisp of smoke I thought I had fried the motor since my 12 V power supply is actually putting out 13.8 VDC at 1.75 A, but it seems to be OK, and the slightly higher voltage is not much different that the output of a typical battery. I'm still a little confused as to the reason for the smoke though...
Meanwhile, I have figured out a little more on the operation of the actuator. There is NO internal travel switch to stop the motor when the actuator plunger reaches the end of its travel (in or out). It seems that the travel is controlled by the central locking module. In other words, the voltage sent to the driver's door actuator is only a very short pulse, which spins the motor a few revolutions and stops. The short pulse is enough to move the actuator plunger in and out sufficiently to lock and unlock the door. The mini switch inside the driver's door actuator registers the state of the plunger, and then opens or closes a circuit controlling the other doors accordingly.
So, a note to anyone bench testing an (unopened) actuator: When you apply voltage (12 VDC) to your actuator from the pins on the connector to test the motor, make sure it is only a short (momentary) contact. You should hear the motor spin and see the plunger move slightly. You can then reverse the polarity and give it another short pulse to confirm that the actuator works in the opposite direction. If you leave the power on the actuator, the motor will just spin until it drives the plunger off the gears at the end of its travel. While this does not damage any of the internal components, you will need to pull or push the plunger slightly to get the plunger plate teeth to feed back into the gears, and then give your actuator a short pulse of power to make sure it is engaged properly with the gears...
Based on what I've said, it seems that the position of the plunger inside the casing after reassembly is sort of irrelevant since you can easily pull or push the plunger in and out without power. Once the actuator is bolted back into the door, the positioning of the locking linkage with respect to the plunger will determine where the actuator plunger should be. So assuming that nothing is bent or warped out of shape, the plunger should mate up with the linkage and work without needing to worry about the plunger position, however, it will probably be necessary to tweak the position of the actuator casing itself to ensure that the locking linkage extends and retracts enough to actually operate the locks !
Kev
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I don't know about you, but I'm enjoying this thread. A lot of thorough info on how a actuator operates and functions. So far what are the cliff notes (add as you wish)
- If a actuator stops working, first check for proper linkage adjustment or a broken wire in the door harness
- If both the above have been confirmed good, then it's likely to be a bad actuator.
- Bench test actuator to confirm it's not working and double check for proper voltage at the actuator harness.
- You can repair the actuator for as little as $12 for five eBay motors or $5 for one Parts Express actuator. Both with its pros/cons.
- Replacing a motor will involve disassembing the actuator and minor internal work to swap the motor and gear. But everything will re-install in its original location and OEM harness.
- Installing a Parts Express actuator will involve minor fabrication to mount the actuator and splicing of wires. But no internal work needed.
- Six of one, half dozen of the other.
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