96 d1 turns over but wont start!!

[mwilson]

So, my 96 d1 with almost 99k on it decided not to start today let me tell you how it has progressed.....To begin with every morning it starts fine when it is cold, later after being at school all day it starts right up, but when i turn it off and go somewhere for about thirty minutes it wont start the first time, nor the second but always on the third try it starts, this has been going on for a while... but today it wouldn't start when it was warm, then I let it sit and it still wouldn't start, so i just got it towed to my house. I don't have the tool to check the fuel pressure but I used a screwdriver just to see if there was any pressure and there wasn't, nothing came out, so does this means its the fuel pump then or is there some type of fuel pump regulator or a crank sensor (or are those only on d2s) or a fuel temperature sensor that is screwed up, i am leaning more towards the fuel pump? I have always had vehicles with carbs so this is unfamiliar territory.
Mick

 

[Rhich]

Have you checked the fuel pump relay?
I had the same problem, checked the fuel pump output and there wasn’t any.
I jumped the relay the verify and it started right up.
If your not sure of how to jump the relay why not spray a little starting fluid in it and if it starts for that split second you know that most likely it’s the relay.

 

[ptschram]

Have you checked the fuel pump relay?
I had the same problem, checked the fuel pump output and there wasn?t any.
I jumped the relay the verify and it started right up.
If your not sure of how to jump the relay why not spray a little starting fluid in it and if it starts for that split second you know that most likely it?s the relay.

Your logic is horribly flawed.

Spraying starting fluid will not isolate the relay from the pump being the problem. This merely proves that fuel is not being provided to the engine and that the ignition system is functioning.

Remove the loadspace carpet to reveal the hatch for the fuel pump. There are two connectors on a '96 (most likely). Disconnect the connector with four wires. Attach your trusty test light (you do have one, don't you?) to the white/purple wire and one of the grounds. Orient the light so it is visible from the driver's seat and turn the key on. If the light illuminates, you have power to the pump and presumptive proof the pump has failed.

 

[mwilson]

thanks guys.... i have to run to the dumps then i will hook up a light and see how it goes

 

[GreyGoose_01 Disco]

it could be your crank positon sensor.

 

[ptschram]

it could be your crank positon sensor.

How the Hell did you decide it was the crank position sensor when he said he has no fuel pressure?

Grey Goose? More like Wild Goose Chase!

Let's not make the job more complicated than it already is. The gentleman said in his very first post that he had no fuel pressure. Does it not make sense to determine why there is no fuel pressure before we go looking for more complicated causes?

 

[Rhich]

I’m sorry for my post then but on a very cold winters night my truck decided not to start, being at work with no tools and not thrilled about being outside with a -10 wind chill I did the obvious… I was in a parking lot without tools and no way of checking the fuel pump… but before I replace a fuel pump I wanted the double check the relay…
I couldn’t get the cover off the relay to I walked to the local store bought some starting fluid and sprayed it into the air filter the truck started almost instantly.
With this “quick” field test completed I ventured to suspect the relay….that night I ordered a relay and had it the next day…. Plugged it in and drove the truck home.
My post was merely sharing my experience nothing more…
But my “illogical logic” saved me from buying a very expensive fuel pump.
Maybe it’s time to find a more civil place to post…. Don’t appreciate getting bashed only for trying to help.

 

[ptschram]

If you think that was bashing... It was not bashing, but correcting an erroneous deduction that could have led to unnecessary expenditures of $ and time.

I try to not only help folks fix their trucks, but also teach logical troubleshooting so that nobody "Dents their truck throwing parts at them". Think teaching a person to fish, rather than giving them a plate of fish and chips!

Your process did prove something that is worthy of note, you proved that your ignition system was operational. Thus, you didn't waste time and effort and that bit of information is invaluable and can keep a person from climbing up the wrong tree by pursuing the route of a fuel pump versus ignition.

In spite of the occasional spate of failed CkPS related here, the ignition systems on GEMS trucks are pretty much bulletproof whereas the fuel pump does have moving parts that are prone to failure with little to no warning.

 

[mwilson]

just hooked up the test light between the purple/white wire and the ground and the damn thing lit up so it is the fuel pump more than likely.... should i try anything else before i buy the pump????????????????

 

[mwilson]

well shiittt!!!! so i bought a used pump that was tested and hooked it up and nothing, the damn thing wouldn't start....wtf man... I checked the power to the pump with the tester light and it is getting power...i don't hear anything from the pump...earlier i checked the pressure by depressing the needle inside the nozzle on the fuel rail and nothing came out... is that good enough, if it was normal would there be fuel spraying out at me.... what the hell...i took off a plug wire and put it next to some metal and gave myself a good shock so it is getting spark... i don't know what to do??????

 

[group captain mandrake]

Assuming your fuel pump is not operating:

just hooked up the test light between the purple/white wire and the ground

Was "the ground" a black wire in the same fuel pump connector, or a convinient chassis ground like the rear door striker?
I don't have a DI schematic so I don't know how the (DI) fuel pump circuit is grounded, but most automobile fuel pumps I've diagnosed provide power & ground through the same electrical connector.
Battery positive voltage to an electric motor (ie fuel pump) is only part of what it takes to complete an electrical circuit: power supply + load + path to ground = a complete electric circuit (in simple terms).
If you did hook your test light "ground" clamp to the fuel pump connector black wire (ground) please forgive me-one of my pet peeves is when people don't consider the "return path" of the electrical circuit.

 

[ptschram]

OK, next lesson in electrical troubleshooting 101

Run power from the battery to the white/purple wire and the ground directly beneath it on the connector (this is much easier to do when the pump is out so you can see which wire goes to the pump and which goes to the fuel level sender). If the pump runs, we have more work to do.

The used pump (who buys a used fuel pump to solve a no-start condition?) may have been purported to have worked, but until WE test it, WE don't know.

Group Captain Mandrake is correct. It is obvious his "Purity of Essence" is strong!

 

[mwilson]

i just hooked the ground to bare metal on the back door, i will hook it up to the black and see if it lights up
thanks

 

[mwilson]

well just put the light between the white'purple on the plug and the ground on the pump and nothing....wtf.... so is it the pump still or is it something before the pump... when i hook up the white purple to just bare metal on the door it lights up but when i hook it to the ground on the pump it doesn't light up so it seems as though the pump is getting power but the pump isn't able to complete the circuit... any more suggestions?????

 

[group captain mandrake]

Your original pump may be fine. What seems certain is you are not getting ground at your fuel pump connector. That black wire is supposed to be connected to chasis ground somewhere. I don't know where on the DI, someone with a DI RAVE cd is going to have to help you you there...You will need to find that ground & check it, if it's OK, then you probably have an open in the wire. That is when it starts to get fun. I would not do this to my truck, but some guys I know would just splice in a ground wire & call it good.

The electrical gods will smile upon you if your Purity of Essence is strong!

 

[mwilson]

i looked for some posts that tell you where the fuel relay is and it didn't help me much... what is the bonnet? one of the posts said the relay is under the bonnet. it also said passenger side kick panel?

 

[Spike555]

The bonnet is British for the hood. The kick panel is the part under the dash that you always kick with your feet.
So the pass side kick panel is on the "wall" under the glovebox, there are two screws that you remove to get to all the relays.
This might help too.
http://www.gomog.com/allmorgan/GEMS/GEMSbyPoole.pdf

 

[ptschram]

On a '96, the fuel pump relay is part of a multi-function relay. It is located beneath the bonnet/hood, adjacent to the ECU, right inner fender well.

The ground for the fuel pump is located "LH rear of luggage compartment behind trim panel". It'll be back by the taillight, inside. There are lugs welded to the body for grounding points all over the truck. I think I'd look for continuity between both of the grounds for the fuel pump and that grounding lug. In the event you find it to be discontinuous, I'd just run a wire parallel to the existing.

 

[mwilson]

thanks pt you have helped a lot i will let you know how it goes....

 

[mwilson]

I really don't know what is going on......
First, I checked the ground near the rear left taillight and it was fine, then I got a fuel relay to try and it didn't start....then I turned the key to on and back to off about 5 or six times and the thing started, once it started it ran / iddled like crap it sounded like it had all sorts of problems then after it warmed up it ran normal, then I put my old relay in and it started, so what the hell is the problem?
Also i just went outside and it started, then i turned it off waited 5 minutes and tried again and when i tried to started it nothing happend, like the ignition stopped working, then i turned it off and tried again and it wouldn't start, then i did the turn on turn off thing and it started and sounds normal, do i have an ignition problem?