A B S Sensor Troubleshooting... the saga continues :(

KevLar

Well-known member
Jun 4, 2007
438
0
Ottawa, Canada
Earlier this summer my ABS light came on during a camping trip. After posting a message here, I was led to believe it was an ABS sensor issue. I used the "paperclip jumper in the OBD connector" to retrieve the fault code which was 2-13. According to the blink code list, this is a Left Rear ABS sensor gap issue.

Fault Code Location Cause
2-13 Rear Left Sensor air gap too large - sensor has
been pushed outwards by exciter ring

I removed the ABS sensor, cleaned and reinstalled it, but could not clear the code. Yesterday, I removed the ABS sensor again and performed the simple resistance/voltage checks. According to the procedure, the sensor should show a resistance of 700 ? - 2K ?, and a voltage of ? 0.93 VAC at 1 RPM.

With the sensor removed, my resistance value is about 1 K? (1.079 K? when measured on the vehicle, and 0.998 ? on the bench), which falls within the spec. When turning the hub slowly (to approximate 1 RPM), I get an AC voltage of 0.001, and the highest AC voltage reading I managed to get was 0.005 VAC when rotating the hub more quickly (probably ~ 5 RPM).

Given the voltage readings, I thought I might have a sensor problem, so I pulled the sensor from the right side, and got essentially the same readings from that one. So, both sensors seem to have very low voltage readings compared to what's listed in the procedure, but the fault code indicated a left rear sensor gap problem.
I really doubt that both sensors crapped out at the same time, so my assumption is that the sensors are OK, and I have a problem with my multimeter (e.g.: the battery needs to be replaced).

After reinserting the left ABS sensor three times without any change, I decided to swap the left and right sensors. Having done that, I took it around the block before doing the OBD blink test. Instead of getting a 2-13 code, I am now getting 2-8, and the code did not clear after I disconnected the pin jumper with the ignition on position 2.

Fault Code Location Cause
2-8 N/A No voltage to ABS solenoid valves,
faulty valve relay AB14 or wiring

I don't see any reason why swapping the left and right rear sensors would lead to this unexpected new code. I would have expected to get an air gap code either on the right rear side (where I've temporarily installed the potentially "faulty" sensor for troubleshooting), or a continued sensor air gap code for the left rear side, which would indicate that there might be a problem with the left side exciter ring, sensor bushing, or something in the left rear position.

The only other thing that I can think of is that I might have the wrong blink code list, but I don't think this is the case... I got the list I'm using from Rovers North (http://www.roversnorth.com/web/downloads/instructions/RR_ABSfault.pdf). It says it's for RR but apparently the same codes also apply to the D1, and these same codes have also been posted here in the Disco forum.

Anybody got ideas what might be wrong and/or suggestions on what to do next ?

Thanks !

Kev
 

KevLar

Well-known member
Jun 4, 2007
438
0
Ottawa, Canada
Re: A B S Sensor Troubleshooting... the saga continues :( AAahhhh !

An on it goes... Tonight I came home and thought I'd fiddle with the ABS some more. I didn't touch the two rear sensors which I had switched around (R sensor to L side and L sensor to R side) but swapped their wire connections around.
Went back into the truck and did the OBD paperclip test... I initially got the same 2-8 code as before, which I imagine was left over in the buffer from the last time. I unplugged the jumper, turned off the ignition and did t again. This time I got code 2-14 (Front Left sensor air gap) :confused:
Cleared that code and did it again. This time I got code 4-14 (Front Left sensor wiring broken or impedance too high)
Cleared this code and now got 4-15 (Rear Right sensor wiring broken or impedance too high)
Cleared this code and now got 5-14 (Front Left sensor or wiring has intermittent contact)
Cleared that one and got 6-14 (Front Left sensor has extremely large air gap):mad:
Cleared that code and then got a long blink - pause - short blink...
I figured the codes were all cleared so I took it for a spin around the block. The ABS light extinguished after a few seconds, but then came back on a moment later...
Checked the code and it was back to 4-14 (Front Left sensor wiring broken or impedance too high)
Cleared that code and then got 6-14 again (Front Left sensor has extremely large air gap) :banghead:
Cleared this last code and got the long short blink which presumably indicates the buffer is clear. I quit for the night since it was getting dark.
I just don't get it ! There were no previous instances of ABS issues in the front. The initial code that started this ordeal back in June was 2-13 (Rear Left sensor gap) and now I'm getting blink codes for the front sensors that seem to be retarded. Nothing in the back anymore where the problem initially started...
Is this an indication of an upstream failure (e.g.: there's nothing wrong with the sensors, but the "computer" is FUBAR) ?
Thanks for ny expertise ;)
Kev
 
I have gone around and around with a number of trucks, even resorting to replacing the ECU. In these cases, I've finally given up and had to assume it was a wiring harness problem. I've gotten the same error codes regardless of whether the harness was an open circuit, or shorted together.

In short, the Disco ABS system ain't worth shit!

If you wanna try a different, supposedly good ECU, I can ship you one to try, if it works I think I have $185 in it.

PT

edit: Eventually, the lite WILL burn out!
 

macklow

Well-known member
May 3, 2004
398
0
Las Vegas, NV
I have a similar problem on my driver's rear and front sensors. The wiring is bad. but by bending the wires the right way, and using zip ties to keep the wires from flexing, I've got a 25 cent cure so far.

I couldn't sell the truck for the price of the sensors (rear harness + 1 front).
 

KevLar

Well-known member
Jun 4, 2007
438
0
Ottawa, Canada
ptschram said:
I have gone around and around with a number of trucks, even resorting to replacing the ECU. In these cases, I've finally given up and had to assume it was a wiring harness problem. I've gotten the same error codes regardless of whether the harness was an open circuit, or shorted together.

In short, the Disco ABS system ain't worth shit!

If you wanna try a different, supposedly good ECU, I can ship you one to try, if it works I think I have $185 in it.

PT

edit: Eventually, the lite WILL burn out!

Thanks PT, and I agree the ABS system is shit ! There's no reason the system should be so easily prone to malfunction, particularly if it is indeed a safety related system. I am really hoping it's not the ECU, and based on the erratic codes I'm getting I feel it might well be a wiring harness issue... I'll fiddle around with the wiring some more before looking at the ECU. In the end I might just disconnect the ABS altogether. I've read the threads regarding the pros & cons of doing that and despite the "safety" concerns, I grew up driving traditional non ABS trucks so I think I can handle it ;)
Has anyone ever tried to open one of the WABCO sensors before ? It looks like there's a soda-can top that might pop off, which would make it somewhat easier to replace the wires...
Kev
 

KevLar

Well-known member
Jun 4, 2007
438
0
Ottawa, Canada
macklow said:
I have a similar problem on my driver's rear and front sensors. The wiring is bad. but by bending the wires the right way, and using zip ties to keep the wires from flexing, I've got a 25 cent cure so far.

I couldn't sell the truck for the price of the sensors (rear harness + 1 front).

Interesting... so is your wiring problem on the short length of wire that is "hard wired" to the sensors, or is it somewhere on the wire harness that runs up to the ECU ? I have a feeling if my problem is cused by wiring, then it's got to be located either on the hardwired part conneted to the sensor, or at least fairly close to the connector since the rest of the wiring harness hasn't been touched...

I guess I'll remove the sensors and put them back to their original wheel locations tonight and recconect everything as it was. For the purposes of troubleshooting I used a twist tie to hold the sensor wires to the brake line near the rotors (there's normally a tie wrap going around the axle there), and the extra wiring is wrapped around the axle to take up the slack. It's not pretty but I just wanted to do something quick so I could drive around the block and test it. Maybe twisting and bending the wires to prevent them from touching the ground has something to do with the new erratic codes...

Kev
 

macklow

Well-known member
May 3, 2004
398
0
Las Vegas, NV
my wiring problem is somewhere between the sensor and about a foot or two down the wire. It may be as PT suggested: right at the sensor.

By twisting the sensor and zip-tying the wire to the axle(rear) or spring (front) I can reduce the (wire) flexing and bad connection.

I have to re-do every so often as the heat destroys my cheap zip-ties and they need replacing.
 

macklow

Well-known member
May 3, 2004
398
0
Las Vegas, NV
I figgered out this "solution" by hooking up a voltmeter to the sensor and wiggling the wire until I got the readings I wanted (resistance and VAC).

I then zip-tied things down in that configuration, and called it a day. Several times.

[I just re-read your original post... you should be spinning the tire at 1 rev/second (60 RPM), not once minute]
 
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KevLar

Well-known member
Jun 4, 2007
438
0
Ottawa, Canada
ptschram said:
Typically, the wires fail right where they enter the sensor.

Thanks again PT :) I'll definitely have a close look at that area, and I'm pretty sure it's the Left Rear sensor that's the problem since this was the first code that was thrown a few months back. All other codes since then are (I'm guessing) "artefacts" of that problem manifesting themselves in new and interesting ways from my having relocated the sensors and tied them down less than securely.
I don't have any spare sensors to fiddle with, so first I'll try the voltmeter and wire bending approach suggested by macklow, and if that does not work, then I might be brave and try to pop the lid off the faulty sensor and see what it looks like inside. If nothing else, I'll be albe to do a decent continuity check on each wire and see if one or both have frayed due to fatigue.
Cheers !
Kev
 

KevLar

Well-known member
Jun 4, 2007
438
0
Ottawa, Canada
macklow said:
I figgered out this "solution" by hooking up a voltmeter to the sensor and wiggling the wire until I got the readings I wanted (resistance and VAC).

I then zip-tied things down in that configuration, and called it a day. Several times.

[I just re-read your original post... you should be spinning the tire at 1 rev/second (60 RPM), not once minute]


OK, that's very, very useful info :) Do you happen to remember if the readings you got were similar to the ones called for in the spec (700? - 2K? and 0.93 VAC @ 1 Rev/Sec). I just want to be sure that if I try the wire jiggling method, I am looking for realistic values that someone has actually measured, as opposed to the spec which might be "optimistic"... My resistance from both sensors was very close to 1K? (+/- 20? or so), and given that I was rotating the hub at 1 RPM versus the 60 RPM you tell me it needs, that would explain the very low AC voltage I measured. So thanks for setting me straight on the 1 Rev/Sec mistake... I don't know how I missed that twice, since I went back to the posting by Chris St. Louis and rechecked the numbers after I got such low reading the first time :eek:
Also, did you use a special technique/rig to spin the hub/wheel at 1 Rev/Sec ? When I was checking the sensor (at the wrong speed), I measured the radius from the center of the hub to the sensor and figured out the corresponding circumference, and hence got an "inches per second" value of 1/2" which was pretty easy to replicate by running the sensor along a flat piece of steel on my workbench. It might be more difficult to use this method if I have to be moving the sensor at 60 X 1/2" = 30"/Sec... Do you know if the sensor speed only has to be ball-park to get an idea of the correct voltage (?) or is it critical that the sensor put out the exact spec voltage (and therefore the exact RPM is important) to know if there's a problem... The reason I ask is that the resistance value in the spec shows a significant range while the voltage has no +/-.
Thanks again !
Kev
 
KevLar said:
Thanks again PT :)
I don't have any spare sensors to fiddle with, so first I'll try the voltmeter and wire bending approach suggested by macklow, and if that does not work, then I might be brave and try to pop the lid off the faulty sensor and see what it looks like inside.
Cheers !
Kev

Want one to try?

If it works, send me $75 and Axel $10.

PT
 

macklow

Well-known member
May 3, 2004
398
0
Las Vegas, NV
my guess on the rotational speed and VAC reading... absolute numbers probably don't matter as much as similar numbers at all 4 wheels, since it using the the inputs from wheels to determine slippage by measuring differences.

To test, I just put the sensor in it's normal place in the wheel hub, hooked up the voltmeter to the other end, spun the jacked-up wheel as fast as I could, and looked at the pretty numbers.
 

KevLar

Well-known member
Jun 4, 2007
438
0
Ottawa, Canada
ptschram said:
Want one to try?

If it works, send me $75 and Axel $10.

PT

I pulled the sensors out earlier tonight and will have a go at testing them tomorrow. I'll let you know if I need a spare.
Thanks for all your help PT :)
Kev
 

KevLar

Well-known member
Jun 4, 2007
438
0
Ottawa, Canada
macklow said:
my guess on the rotational speed and VAC reading... absolute numbers probably don't matter as much as similar numbers at all 4 wheels, since it using the the inputs from wheels to determine slippage by measuring differences.

To test, I just put the sensor in it's normal place in the wheel hub, hooked up the voltmeter to the other end, spun the jacked-up wheel as fast as I could, and looked at the pretty numbers.

Good point, I figured that similar numbers would give me a clue as to their state. Even though I got low numbers at the low RPM when I first tested, the fact that the R and L sensors were giving off the same kinds of readings leads me to believe they are OK (?), at least off the vehicle. Perhaps the problem is manifesting itself when the wires are bent to conform to the vehicle...
I've got them off the truck again and will hopefully have time to test them tomorrow.
Thanks for all the feedback !
Kev
 

96discoI

Well-known member
Feb 16, 2008
216
1
NorCal
Have you tried just resetting the computer by disconnecting the battery overnight? Sometimes when you fiddle too much, the computer needs to sleep...