Are all ZF 4HP22's created equal?

[dkfrizzell]

Meaning: when an auto maker uses the 4HP22 in its car, do they change the engine to match the bolt pattern of the ZF or does each ZF have a different housing depending on where it is being used?

I noticed that the ZF was used in everything from Lincoln Continentals, BMW, Rover, Peugeots, etc. and it made me wonder if they all are interchangable with one another.

Thanks,
Dave

 

[DiscoDino]

I know of interchangeability between the BMW and LR boxes...I'm intalling a lower 1st gear from the V12 BMW into mine

 

[racerwad]

they are broadly interchangeable, but the tailhousings can be different (usually) and the bellhousings are different, too. that being said, the internals are almost identical with ratio differences being the big thing as discodino pointed out.

a

 

[dkfrizzell]

Ya, I kinda figured the bodies would be different. I have a Peugeot 2.5 TD in my series 2a with an adaptor plate connecting it to the old rover 4 speed. I am thinking about going to an autobox and was hoping that any old HP22 would bolt up to the engine since the 505 it came from also used the HP22.

It would have been nice to just drop in a disco tranny/transfercase.

 

[MUSKYMAN]

Nadim

what year BMW box is it out of?

and is it a 4HP24?

I have a V12 in a 1990 and it has a 4hp24 in it.

at some point i may part the thing and throw the v12 in a rover buggy

 

[mike97d1]

don't the 4.6 rover have the hp24

 

[MUSKYMAN]

don't the 4.6 rover have the hp24

dont what?

 

[DiscoDino]

Nadim

what year BMW box is it out of?

and is it a 4HP24?

I have a V12 in a 1990 and it has a 4hp24 in it.

at some point i may part the thing and throw the v12 in a rover buggy

The way the junk yards work in Lebanon is that you talk to the "boss", tell him what you want...he sends out his kids...after a crappy cup of coffee/tea, you get what you ask for...

He says "this is the cleanest piece I have...try it...if it works, great, if not, return it and we'll try something else"

I, looking puzzled, pay 1/2 of the value, and go try it out...

I have to say that this method has failed me once in the past 9 years (and you know how often I wrench on the truck)...

But basically, short answer, is I have no idea

 

[racerwad]

the 4HP24s (in LR apps like '03-'04 D2s) are longer by ~15mm. otherwise they are identical to the 4HP22s in the earlier D2s ('99-'02). they are electronically controlled while D1 4HP22s are mechanically controlled.

a

 

[frickjp]

otherwise they are identical to the 4HP22s in the earlier D2s

Not exactly. Forward clutch is bigger, pump is bigger, several other bits are beefier.

 

[ChicagoDon]

throw the v12 in a rover buggy

Thats my project next year, so you cant do it

 

[DiscoDino]

Does anyone know the EXACT gearing from the V12 BMW? 1st in particular...I'm trying to widen up the spectrum across my gear choices with the Underdrive (lots of overlapping gears)

 

[tap121]

the 4HP24s (in LR apps like '03-'04 D2s) are longer by ~15mm. otherwise they are identical to the 4HP22s in the earlier D2s ('99-'02). they are electronically controlled while D1 4HP22s are mechanically controlled.

a

It's my understanding that the bell housing is the same but the clutchplate and inner components are 15mm shorter. Does that sound right? I've got a 99 D2 that I just put a 03 D2 4.6L in and tranny is starting to slip pretty badly. I think this is why, does that sound plausible? I found a nice rebuilt 4hp24 nearby but I'm having a hell of a time finding out if it'll be compatible or not. the numbers are SN 0326384 4HP-24 LRTGD000170R.

 

[racerwad]

the trans is longer externally so that the internals can be beefed up as frickjp mentioned to handle the increased output of the 4.6 motor. if you wanted the 24 you'd probably have to relocate some brackets and change driveshafts to compensate for a change in t-case location.

the bellhousing is the same but i think the externals are 15mm longer.

 

[tap121]

So here's my predicament then. Do I try to rebuild my existing 1999 D2 transmission to the 2003 4hp24 spec or do I just replace it with a used or rebuilt 4hp24 and replace the driveshafts along with it? Second seems to make more sense but either way it seems like I'm in trouble. I have to make a decision quickly since I think I've only got a few days left before its undrivable.

 

[racerwad]

i know a lot of people that have done the 4.0 -> 4.6 conversion in a D2 without changing any of the driveline. just get your 22 rebuilt. don't bother with phoenix retrans in phoenix, az though. they were lame. lots of cars came with this ZF trans so you should be able to find a place that can rebuild it. who knows if it even needs a rebuild...

a

 

[roverover]

Ya, I kinda figured the bodies would be different. I have a Peugeot 2.5 TD in my series 2a with an adaptor plate connecting it to the old rover 4 speed. I am thinking about going to an autobox and was hoping that any old HP22 would bolt up to the engine since the 505 it came from also used the HP22.

It would have been nice to just drop in a disco tranny/transfercase.

So... should you not just require the Peugeot bell housing, which would match up to the engine and trani The only problem might be the length of the input shaft.

 

[tap121]

That's good to hear, thanks! I'm not sure about the rebuild either but I'm in New York City and there are slim pickings as far as mechanics go. I have a friend who does all my work (except transmissions) and he took it personnally to two shops and they both tried to pull shannagans with him.

 

[roverover]

That's good to hear, thanks! I'm not sure about the rebuild either but I'm in New York City and there are slim pickings as far as mechanics go. I have a friend who does all my work (except transmissions) and he took it personnally to two shops and they both tried to pull shannagans with him.

Paul Grant has a ZF for $200 I was going to buy it for a spare but go for it I wouldn;t waste a lot of money on a rebuild personally

 

[ptschram]

Whatever you do, stay away from Phoenix Hard Parts.

Their inability to deliver cost me my last job.