Barry was NOT a hero during the Pirate Hostage Mess

[Jake]

Just for the record I never bad mouthed the military. Disagreeing with you guys does not make me a mean spirited liberal.

I perceived otherwise, perhaps I was in error. standing down. :victory: For the record, I was frustrated with ROE throughout my career, esp in Somalia and Bosnia. In predeployment training to Bosnia, lots of things were rammed down the troops throats that was counter to real world training. Like in reacting to sniper fire, instead of using suppresive fire and then manuever to find and eliminate the threat, troops were trained to leave the area :banghead:

ROE in Somalia was not much better, we were not supposed to engage unless being shot at, but a skinny high on khat carrying an AK is an unpredictable subject.

The whole point of this post being, ROE hindered the encounter with the pirates. When the captain risked his life by escaping from the life boat, the Bainbridge should have blasted the pirates out of the water. they could not do that under the ROE Instead, the situation went on for longer than it should have. we could have snuffed all four pirates instead of now spending millions on a worthless trial and keeping the survivor in captivity for however long we do. There is no redeeming social grace in being a pirate and the occupational hazard of that profession should be getting snuffed by the good guys, no matter what country they come from.

Thanks for having two offspring in the service atriot:

 

[ptschram]

If you are talking about casualties from the US military in IRAQ and Afganistan, no kids died. Any who died were warriors, male & female.

I disagree Jake.

I think that any soldier who dies in defense of his country is a fucking HERO! These are the folks who took on a job that ultimately ended with their dying.

I grew up hearing about the 17 years my father spent active duty army. The stories he told of friends of his who served from 1942 to 1960 inspired me greatly and gave me nothing but respect and appreciation for the individuals who make up our military.

I also think that I have a right to be critical of decisions made by their managers. When I was in industry, I didn't have that right as I had no control, in this case, I like to maintain my fantasy that I as a voter still have a direct connection to policies, military, social, economic, etc. Hey, it's my fantasy, it cna be as big as I want it to be!

Every time I encounter a serviceman or woman in uniform, I thank them for their service, it's the least I can do (of course, I hope that they use the educational funding opportunities when they get out).

Cheers,
PT

 

[rovercanus]

I perceived otherwise, perhaps I was in error. standing down. :victory: For the record, I was frustrated with ROE throughout my career, esp in Somalia and Bosnia. In predeployment training to Bosnia, lots of things were rammed down the troops throats that was counter to real world training. Like in reacting to sniper fire, instead of using suppresive fire and then manuever to find and eliminate the threat, troops were trained to leave the area :banghead:

ROE in Somalia was not much better, we were not supposed to engage unless being shot at, but a skinny high on khat carrying an AK is an unpredictable subject.

The whole point of this post being, ROE hindered the encounter with the pirates. When the captain risked his life by escaping from the life boat, the Bainbridge should have blasted the pirates out of the water. they could not do that under the ROE Instead, the situation went on for longer than it should have. we could have snuffed all four pirates instead of now spending millions on a worthless trial and keeping the survivor in captivity for however long we do. There is no redeeming social grace in being a pirate and the occupational hazard of that profession should be getting snuffed by the good guys, no matter what country they come from.

Thanks for having two offspring in the service atriot:

I am in total agreement with you here. ROE only protects the lives of those who don't deserve it. Like I said, when we decided we needed to fight popular wars, we needlessly endangered those we send to carry out the duty.

 

[Jake]

I disagree Jake.

I think that any soldier who dies in defense of his country is a fucking HERO! These are the folks who took on a job that ultimately ended with their dying.

I grew up hearing about the 17 years my father spent active duty army. The stories he told of friends of his who served from 1942 to 1960 inspired me greatly and gave me nothing but respect and appreciation for the individuals who make up our military.

I also think that I have a right to be critical of decisions made by their managers. When I was in industry, I didn't have that right as I had no control, in this case, I like to maintain my fantasy that I as a voter still have a direct connection to policies, military, social, economic, etc. Hey, it's my fantasy, it cna be as big as I want it to be!

Every time I encounter a serviceman or woman in uniform, I thank them for their service, it's the least I can do (of course, I hope that they use the educational funding opportunities when they get out).

Cheers,
PT

PT: heroes is a great word to use. I try not to over-use it to lessen the affect of the word when used to describe those who go beyond the call of duty.. but it does take major courage to volunteer to serve during time of war...my hat is off to this generation as it joins those who went before them...atriot:

 

[spydrjon]

What's Air America?

Dead

 

[hafaday]

Haha! Here I is. This is the actual trip upon return to Andrews from Navy North Island (that's San Diego for you civilians).

is that you on the left on the phone? j/k man.

gotta love the "acq" (arm chair quarterback). i have always found it funny, that everyone knows what should have been done. BUT was never there.

out

looking forward to meeting ya some day. atriot:

Bill

 

[RBBailey]

What's Air America?

:applause:

 

[Mike_Rupp]

Dead

Oh, I think I know what it is: another in a long list of failed liberal media companies that will soon be getting a bailout from John Kerry and Obama.

 

[flyfisher11]

Oh, I think I know what it is: another in a long list of failed liberal media companies that will soon be getting a bailout from John Kerry and Obama.

By way of the "fairness" doctrine

 

[jhmover]

Air America died, then it was Evergreen. I thought I was going to get locked up at Travis AFB one time when I was getting a pass to go on base, I remarked to the guard (you could see the Evergreen plane out the window in the pass office) that it was nice the CIA was there...he about blew a gasket. I got the 3rd degree until I convinced him that it wasn't any secret. Go here, you'll see what I'm talking about http://www.evergreenaviation.com/ - not your usual airline. So I think I guessed right.

Also, I moved some Air America dudes back in the 70's. Was like a spy mission making a sales call to the guy who gave out the moves. You'd get a call at the last minute to meet in room such and such at the such and such hotel.

 

[flyfisher11]

Air America died, then it was Evergreen. I thought I was going to get locked up at Travis AFB one time when I was getting a pass to go on base, I remarked to the guard (you could see the Evergreen plane out the window in the pass office) that it was nice the CIA was there...he about blew a gasket. I got the 3rd degree until I convinced him that it wasn't any secret. Go here, you'll see what I'm talking about http://www.evergreenaviation.com/ - not your usual airline. So I think I guessed right.

Also, I moved some Air America dudes back in the 70's. Was like a spy mission making a sales call to the guy who gave out the moves. You'd get a call at the last minute to meet in room such and such at the such and such hotel.

Southern Air

 

[jhmover]

I figured you would know the latest poop. This was like about 25-30 years ago at TAFB. I'm an old fart.

 

[jhmover]

I've also moved some interesting characters. Twice I've looked in someone's closet while doing an estimate and they had a Laws rocket in the corner, one dude had 2 mac 10's in a shoulder holster on a coat hanger.

I gave a Brigadier General an estimate yesterday. I've never been in anyone's house who had so much stuff on the walls in 33 years of moving people. This guy definitely had an interesting career. Nice guy too, but I'd bet money you wouldn't want to piss him off.

 

[flyfisher11]

..... I've never been in anyone's house who had so much stuff on the walls in 33 years of moving people. This guy definitely had an interesting career. Nice guy too, but I'd bet money you wouldn't want to piss him off.

I have had all my shit in a closet for years and my wife finally talked me into building a "I love me wall". I have been reluctant but WTF? Only thing is it keeps me focused and shit in perspective. It ain't about me it is about all those that follow.

 

[jhmover]

I have family portraits and photos on the walls of my office. They date back to the mid 1800's. Nothing about me at all.