(body) lift options; experience requested

[peter sherman]

I run 235/85's on an 98. med springs f/r bilsteins extended bumps. No winch no bumper[1/2 a bumper] No rubbing! & I have all my fuses![today] I guess I don't get it. Hey where is Kyle!
Remember the KISS effect!

 

[Disco-Kings]

Lets try this...

Body Lift:

PROS: -Increased clearance for larger tires.
-Increased door sill (rocker) clearance. (in certain situations)
-NO drivetrain modifications required.
-Affordable, Cheap, Economical. (whatever)
-Fairly simple DIY install. (The only problem I have encountered is terribly rusted and seize seat belt mount retainers.)

CONS: -Increased stress on body mounts. (which I am not sure is that serious? I have had several trucks and know of many more who have used 2"-4" body lifts and only once have I heard of a failure and that was a hockey puck lift that cracked in the winter. The RTE body lift is one of the best I have installed, have you ever seen a calmini body lift, or the superior bl, well if not they are total garbage.)
-Ugly spaces between the bumpers and the body. (This does suck for those who can not fab up their own or purchase a fitted bumper)
-Ugly spaces between body and frame. (The gaps left from body lifts I have always hated, its extremely cheesey looking...but the Disco and RR work very well with the body lift, there is no visible gap except for the wheel wells, which can be hidden using rubber flaps and rivets.)
-CDL shifting problems. (I have heard of folks who have had problems shifting from high to low or vice versa. (Not me ) Seems some discoveries have different style shifters, and they might need to be heated and bent slightly or re-positioned better on their shaft to operate smoothly.)
-Does not increase articulation. (obviously)
-Changes your COG. (Just like a tire lift, suspension lift, roof rack, five people in your truck instead of one, and driving style. Just make sure you use stiffer springs with a BL and drive you rig like a truck.)


I'd like to ask Kenny what I asked Kyle and will probably be asking Cartman soon..

What exactly do you think will fail on a body lift? You said "This is because they can place extra stress on the mounting locations and internal cage seams. This leads to extremely expensive problems down the road with the internal structure."
What are these expensive problems down the road? And my internal cage seams, whats that about...i think you escaped from a cage! I'm honestly curious and not being sarcastic, I'd love to know of failures to any part or component so I can better judge, I'm also having a little fun here and if I wasn't I wouldn't be here with all these crazy nuts...

CHEERS
and hey I might start that tire and lift thread soon if no one else does...

 

[DiscoDino]

I say ("old chap" ) that the way you create space is done with several methods on a priority list, which differs to your particular needs...

My thoughts are based on getting +37s with the best stability, so my list is:

1. OME 3" suspension (you need that for the obvious reasons)
2. Flares (neatest way to get the largest tires and go wider)
3. BL (more space, winches tucked in, custom bumpers anyways)

And yes, I prefer lifting the ~430KG body than the frame, engine, transfer case, transmission...etc...past the 3" lift.

Do what suits you best - that did it for me

Nadim

 

[Mr.C]

Hi...I'm new to this and am soaking in all I can. What would help is a picture to go along with what you describe. I plan on lifting my newly aquired 95, but not till I fully understand what works best. I'm in no hurry cause I'd rather do it right the first time.....oh and I pulled the fuse.

 

[parthog]

Thanks all, great info, great options. I was a little afraid of starting this, since nothing I found in a search really adressed both together, lots of opinions and some hot debate though, ...

Really happy I asked. Thinking 2" body, cut frame tips or otherwise relocate bumper mounts, 1" or 2" spring (HD) lift looks like it'll work. Now to get back to the tire clearance threads and decide what I can stuff in there and find some good looking flares.

- Jeff

 

[jenzz1]

I dont think the stress is severe if you stay with a 1-2 inch Bodylift.
This is my disco with a 30mm BL, 50mm Springs and 265/75R16 tires.
It has 200.000kms on the clock, went several times into the sahara and back, often weighing in 3tons and driving washboard tracks all day long with high speed. And after all, it is still on it's factory mounted u-joints. Try this with a 3 inch suspension lift.

 

[Rocky]

Lets try this.
No spring lift good for 235/85-16
Install DAP fender flares
Install tires
Play

 

[Disco-Kings]

Good to see you finnally showed up to your own thread there parthog..

TJ fender flares look good in this pic...so does the 4 wheel steering and mogs..

 

[DiscoDino]

Good to see you finnally showed up to your own thread there parthog..

TJ fender flares look good in this pic...so does the 4 wheel steering and mogs..

These are not mogs - these are maxi drive drop boxes, at 23K USD for all 4, I'll go Toy conversion any day and get the larger tires to recompensate.

The flares are key as well!

Hey Jens! Alles Gut? How everything going on? ANy trips to the Middle East?

Nadim

 

[kennith]

Jens,

You are correct, a lesser body lift is not as bad as a higher one. Also, your experience here is well noted, though I am about to take a counterpoint to one of your statements.

Phil,

Right now, the body rests on spacers that rest on the frame mounts, which dosen't allow too much movement, and keeps the frame as a partial stiffening support for the body's internal cage. This cage supports as well all of your glass, panels, and interior. Increasing the length of the spacers removes the frame's ability to help support the body's structure.

You will find that the majority of automobiles using internal cages to support body panels use the front passenger compartment tub, firewall, and A pillars to support most of the body against the stresses of driving. The rest is simply there to put a roof over your head.

Holding the front end of the passenger compartment together to a great degree is also the windshield, which does not flex. This places much of the stress a body endures along the edge of both the firewall and the front door supports.

The stress that can cause fatigue and eventual seperation of these joints is that caused by leaning in turns, loading with cargo, and bouncy roads. (this is where I don't discount Jens's statement, but make one myself which alludes to the contrary)

Without the vehicle's ladder frame to keep the body from twisting and deflecting longitudinally, all these forces (which were before absorbed by the frame) are now applied to the firewall joint. This, after a long time now, can cause the firewall and windshield to begin seperation from the rest of the body cage. As well, the doors will begin to droop. Much like if you have a rust problem in the area.

This is obviously not a problem most need to worry about. But it's like smoking (I do, so don't take offence), it dosen't give everyone lung problems, but if you are planning on keeping your body, why take the risk?

Cheers,

Kennith

 

[parthog]

Kenneth:

As the body rests on spacers and then frame mounts, don't the body lift kits simply increase the height of these spacers so that the body is supported and attached at the same points to the frame? I guess that I wouldn't use a lift "kit" that didn't use the same mounting points. Does the RTE lift only address some of the support points?

It has been my expectation that if/when I lift the body it will be supported at the same points so that there should be no significant amount more stress or flex of either the body or frame. Keeping the frame and driveline lower by lifting only the body is my way of keeping the money in the play pile instead of spending it on driveshafts and stuff, and keeping the center of mass lower than lifting the whole thing.

It would be nice to see how much of the 4,500# truck is in the body, anybody know?

BTW, just trivia, the windshield does flex, we have spent a great deal of time and money trying to analyze and predict the natural frequency of windshields etc.

 

[kennith]

Parthog,

By increasing the length of the spacers, you decrease their ability to act as a mating structure with the frame.

And in relation to the relatively boxy and hollow Discovery body, when in place, the windshield does not flex much at all. It's all relative. Those are definately good observations though. And for the most part, correct.

I'm not fussing about anyone's decision to use a body lift. It's not my place. I just stepped in to ground the discussion a bit, and to try and get some good thoughts out of people on body lifts. Believe me, I do plenty of things that most people say are a bad Idea.

Cheers,

Kennith

 

[jenzz1]

Right now, the body rests on spacers that rest on the frame mounts, which doesn't allow too much movement, and keeps the frame as a partial stiffening support for the body's internal cage. This cage supports as well all of your glass, panels, and interior. Increasing the length of the spacers removes the frame's ability to help support the body's structure.

Kennith, what I don't get is: how can a solid aluminum spacer make a difference to the connection between frame and body? If a Bodylift exceeds 2 or 3 inches, the frame outriggers will get additional torsional forces when braking or cornering, ok. But regarding the up/down movements of the body relative to the frame, I dare to say a BL does make no difference at all.

@Nadim:
I always hope to visit one day either Syria or Mauritania. But not at least for the next two years

 

[Disco-Kings]

-The body is supported at ALL the same locations.
-Solid Aluminum spacers slide between the body and the frame, the rubber mounts are not removed or modified.
-There would be more stress on the body mounts and the bolts themselves, and the RTE bodylift uses grade 8 bolts which as far as I could tell are much better then the stock ones.
-In my opinion the only time you would get stress to the "internal cage and seams" is when the body lift is being installed as the truck is jacked up beyond the 2inches and it is jacked up unevenly.

 

[Kyle]

Ever wonder why car makers keep the body and frame fairly close together ? Hell , now they are so close that they ARE together.. How bout the fan and linkages and steering and harnesses and on and on and on and on..... A body lift is today what it has always been "Poor mans lift kit"....

 

[alex]

You can say that about anything.. ever wonder why car makers don't put XYZ on the vehicles they sell? then why do you? Bad argument.

I think a body lift is a good way to get some clearance for bigger tires. Combined with a mild suspension lift you can get the rubber you want under there with less triming. I haven't heard of a body lift fail on a LR yet. Mine's held up fine for the couple of years I have had it. So has Nadim's? Anyone out there whose body lift has given them problems, like cracks in the tub around the body mounts?

 

[DiscoDino]

Mine's A-OK...and it seems that I punish the truck so often...

Kyle, all the other things that needed to be addressed were handled easily within 30min, so it was simple...

I'm willing to be labelled a "poor man's lift kit" if it will eliminate me having to spend thousands of dollars on things I already have and work as is on 37s (driveshafts, arms, etc..)

 

[peter]

yeah i?m a poor man.

 

[kennith]

Jens,

When the outriggers and mounting points on the frame flex, they no longer support the body. When the body is subjected to a twisting force, those extended spacers will move, and the welds in the front of the cage take the strain. Same with the deflection along it's length. It's only a matter of time and how well your particular cage was put together.

If you REALLY want a body lift, then get one.

My ADVICE, though, is not to compromise on such an important part of your favorite machine. If money is the issue, then wait until you have enough. Save up for what you want.

A thin wallet is something we have all had to endure at one point or another, some of us still do. But I've never let it stop me from getting things done right.

As far as seeing it happen, yes I have. Many times. It takes a long while, but it does cause problems. That's why they attract opinions so much.

The same "shim it up" mentality causes problems over time in construction, as well, and further exposure to this thought process leads to things like that white D1 with three brackets welded on top of one another to mount the swaybars. Not to mention spring spacers and a body lift, plus longer springs and wheel spacers. On the same vehicle.

Yeah, that's why I call these things LEGO lifts. Where does it end? The companies producing this stuff seem to be in a contest to see who can fit the most parts under a Disco without actually changing anything.

Cheers,

Kennith

 

[jenzz1]

Ever wonder why car makers keep the body and frame fairly close together ? Hell , now they are so close that they ARE together.. ....

So whats the point? Should we all get us Subarus now??
Maybe car makers do this for the same reason they don't install 3inch lifts, or MT tires, or winches, or lockers... because the average soccer mom don't want this on her blingbling "Land Rover Jeep".

And leave me alone with that "If you cant afford a suspension lift...", that makes me laugh, having invested so much Euros in that truck over the last ten years.

The one and only reason I choose this setup, 1 inch Bodylift and 2 inch Suspension Lift with 265/75 R16 tires is

...

...

RELIABILITY!
And drivebility.

It avoids all the problems of bigger suspension lifts, like worn bushes, panhard rod or radius arms either too long or too short, shocks, U-Joints, drivetrain vibes, keeping a straigt line when braking, steering forces, and on and on, you name it. Things you dont want to care about while illegally crossing a border in northern africa.