(body) lift options; experience requested

[parthog]

Okay I feel that I've got it. The body lift with suspension lift allows me to stay within the magic 2" suspension lift that keeps the suspension and drivetrain angles happy without major mods, still giving enough clearance for the tires I want, keepning the center of mass lower than a 4" suspension lift will.

The only objections seem to be that it is a "poor man's lift", I am fine with that but think its other advantages than cost are significant.

The other objection being body mount stress, when I look from an Engineering perspective at a lift which is solid aluminum spacers with the same size/durometer spacers on the same points the only additional stresses would be the larger lever arm of the body's mass on those mounting points, points that are perhaps 60" apart and I'm adding a 2" lever arm extension which comes out to roughly 3.5% greater stress in roll-axis movement, ... that's it? If there is any measurable difference in the life of the body mounts with 3.5% more stress and there isn't enough of a safety factor in the design of that body I'll be surprised. I don't consider this worth the time to enter the whole thing into a stress-analysis/FEM package, too small a change.

Thanks for all of the answers, great information, like the truck Jens, sorry this turned into a 2-pager (was afraid of that) but glad I asked.

- Jeff

 

[Kyle]

Nadim and Alex , I guess I put my first body lift on in the early Eightites. Where were you two in the early 80s ? I still have a Bronco 2 that I bought and converted to a V8 and it "Required" that I put a BL on it. I drove the damn thing all over the place nad lets say that I drove everything that I owned like it was stolen at the time.

No the body didnt fall off , its still sitting there with the same BL on it today. However , it just want as nice and neat as it was prior to. And everything relating to that needed to be modified from that point on. Anything I added wasnt a simple bolt on thing and at that point became proprietary.

And lets go ahead and bust up this one famous argument about the BL. C OF G , and how high or low it is with or without the BL. (My comments about OEMS fit here) You two know its lower ? How much lower ? Certainly its lower then some of the boys here that want a 6" spring lift to fit a 32" tire but I dont think its a noticeable difference on a truck that has a well thought out lift on it .. You can bet your ass that if it was the case and the COG was kept that much lower OEMs would be all over it to keep Sally the soccer mom from flipping her explorer 255 times on the interstate.

I will throw you two a bone and say that if you are going to the point that Nadim has , the BL is just one more thing in a long line of things that make the truck into something proprietary. He is way past the point of it really making a difference one way or the other as far as the truck as a whole. For instance ... A trophy truck has a nice cage and like 3 feet of wheel travel at each wheel which is pretty damn nice. However I dont think you want to do that to your DD and say its a practical mod.

 

[parthog]

And lets go ahead and bust up this one famous argument about the BL. C OF G , and how high or low it is with or without the BL. (My comments about OEMS fit here) You two know its lower ? How much lower ...

Not to be argumentative, this is pretty simple engineering. The center of mass (as opposed to the CG which seems more appropriate discussing aircraft) will certainly be lower when lifting the body only compared to lifting the body+frame+drivetrain. How much? Not worth the analysis because it is a matter of keeping it lower, regardless of how much.

Lets guess the body is 1800# of the 4550# my '99 weighs. Calculations could be SWAGed, and lifting a 1800# body compared to lifting 4200# (entire truck minus axles WAG) would certainly keep the center of mass closer to stock. If the body weighs half of the truck's weight then the rough numbers would indicate that a body lift will raise the center of mass half as much as would lifting the entire truck.

- Jeff

 

[Kyle]

Being argumentative is the point here so dont fret. How much ? You arent building a comp truck so its not like you have done a million things and each small thing adds to the greater good. It keeps getting brought up by the same people so I am simply asking how much ? If any at all ? Certainly cutting and adding flares keeps it lower but if the roof line is at 8' with springs or BL its still at 8' and I doubt you will see much difference , if any at all between the two...

Offset wheels and things that increase track will certainly give you more stability , however , I am talking about spring lift vs BL on the truck equiped with the same track width..

 

[alex]

Being argumentative is the point here so dont fret. How much ? You arent building a comp truck so its not like you have done a million things and each small thing adds to the greater good. It keeps getting brought up by the same people so I am simply asking how much ? If any at all ? Certainly cutting and adding flares keeps it lower but if the roof line is at 8' with springs or BL its still at 8' and I doubt you will see much difference , if any at all between the two...

Offset wheels and things that increase track will certainly give you more stability , however , I am talking about spring lift vs BL on the truck equiped with the same track width..

There is a difference--I ran my truck with 5" spring lift, and with 3" spring and 2" body, the way it is now. feels much more stable with the shorter suspension lift, no doubt about it. YMMV.

As far as body lifts on a DD? I don't see why that in and of itself would be a problem. If you combine it with big mud tires on offset wheels that stick out from the body, well that may be a different story. I drove my Disco daily that way for a couple of years, and it drove well for what it was, but it sure didn't drive like stock. That, and it attracted more attention from law enforcement than I was comfortable with.

My new DD (3/4 ton GMC) is much more comfortable than the Disco ever was, and I bought the LSE new in 1998. The Disco will be more comfortable on its new trailer than racking up thousaneds of miles on the interstate. Having said that, I would not hesitate to drive it to work if I needed to (did it for two years with its current mods), and that's 50 miles each way on an interstate that usually moves at 75+... No matter what it is that I'm behind the wheel of, I just can't keep it at 65 in the right lane

 

[Kyle]

Well , my truck feels to me as if it will do 0-60 in about 4 seconds.... Read your own post carefully Alex.... Trailer queen.............

 

[Steve Rupp]

Hey Alex, is that trailer big enough for your disco and a Zuk?

 

[alex]

Well , my truck feels to me as if it will do 0-60 in about 4 seconds.... Read your own post carefully Alex.... Trailer queen.............

I'd like some of what you're smokin'

0-60 in a Land Rover. Does it run on pump gas??

Trailer queen (to be, anyway) yeah. But not because it won't cruise at 85, or because its not the most reliable vehicle I have owned (only stranded me once in 150K miles, when the fuel pump gave out on my way home from work one day). I want to be able to beat on it with impunity, with no fear of breakage. Hasn't happened YET, but when I do break something that I can't (or don't want to) fix on the trail, I won't be stuck in BFE, and I won't have to wrench in the mud if I don't feel like it.

Aint this a fun hobby?

 

[Kyle]

Just curious , but in the 150K , where did you go with it ?

 

[alex]

It has been as far east as Cape Cod and as far West as Colorado.

 

[Kyle]

And after the mods ?

 

[alex]

In its current incarnation (done about 2 years ago) the longest road trip it has done was from here to Toronto. Also a trip to WV. plus about 50K miles of trips to surrounding states consisting of anywhere from 120 to 400hwy miles, followed by all kinds of four wheeling for one to a few days, followed by a drive home at 75-80mph (or whatever was safe for road conditions), and DD of aobut 100 miles a day. Everything has held up fine during that time. had to replace a headgasket but that had nothing to do with the mods.

So back to the topic--body lift held up OK, so far.

 

[kennith]

I'm not saying the body is going to fall apart the day after you install the lift. Neither am I saying that the extra leverage is the only contributing factor to the added stress. And while I do like a good debate, I really don't feel like arguing that the more parts you add, the more slop in the assembly you get, because then someone will tell me that they regularly check the torque on their body mount bolts.

Or that is dosn't really matter, because they won't loosen any more than stock and then provide me with an equation that proves it.

Or I might even hear, the "not everyone has the money/time/insert excuse here to mess with a suspension lift" argument.

I'm trying to save you time and money, not put you down. You can still fit pretty big meats with a modest 2 inch lift, and some minor trimming. On stock suspension, My 01 had plenty of room left over with the wheel locked on 32s.

And believe me, I'm in full support (not that it really matters) of going higher, and going against the grain, But even I won't touch a body lift.

Not everyone want's to figure out things like how to get a Disco up without messing up the driveline. Not everyone likes spending time in a shop under a car with a pencil and a piece of paper. I know that, but you know, the fellows you trust to build your kits apparently feel that way too, because they aren't providing any real solutions to our problems.

It ain't rocket science to get a vehicle in the air properly. It's no more complicated than spending some time in the shop with your brain running. You know, 16 year old kids are out there making mini trucks that drag the frame on the ground. Some of them have designed and built their own suspension bits.

Yes, I know the difference between down and up too, but realize that a 5 inch suspension drop is no less complicated than a 5 inch lift. KIDS do this stuff, guys!

If it just isn't your cup of tea, fine. No-one, however is convincing me yet that a body lift is actually better than a suspension lift. Again, not that it really matters.

Cheers,

Kennith

 

[kennith]

You know, these posts look much shorter when I type them.