coolant loss at expansion tank

[jrolfedrev]

truck was just serviced at the local indy shop with heads surfaced, replace radiator and hoses aloong w/ throttle body kit. After few weeks, truck was fine then today the temp gauge went up and coolant was leaking at the expansion tank. I was pulled by the sheriff to mention the leak. Now waiting for the tow truck.

 

[ptschram]

Sounds like somebody's indie shop has a comeback.

Sorry for your luck, nobody wants to have a bunch of work done only to find it might have been for naught.

 

[jrolfedrev]

Well, when it first had a coolant leak the shop replace the radiator then I drove it about two miles the truck expansion tank leak again then on the way to the shop the gauge went to high. They resurface the head then took it home for about two weeks then overheat again, do you think a cracked liner? Now if it needed engine replacement, can I go after the shop since they did not addressed the problem the first place? Two overheat problem in a row.

 

[ptschram]

The shop can't know if the liners are not solid until reassembly making it difficult to hold them responsible.

Let's not jump to conclusions. Take it back, describe what's happened and go from there.

 

[jrolfedrev]

Okay, the truck was still at the shop with the engine running and monitoring any leaks. There is no evident of coolant puking from the reservoir as what happened last Sunday. The tstat is okay but there might be a problem with the viscous fan. Hopefully this could be the culprit. At least the truck is not fried when the temp gauge rise to high as one of my worries. Thanks Paul for your response.

 

[jrolfedrev]

The truck was fine for almost three weeks. Then yesterday afternoon I went to LA for a 65 miles drive and then on my way back I notice the temp gauge started to go up on a uphill climb. I parked it to the nearest gas station and check the reservoir and everything was fine. After 15 minutes of cool-down I started heading back to the freeway, another uphill climb and the temp gauge goes up to red and down. I pulled over to the side and coolant was spewing from the reservoir's overflow pipe. I can also see the traces of coolant on the road, I let it cool down and started to release the pressure cap slowly to let the air out and coolant was bubbling. The top hose was hot and stiff while the coolant pump feed hose warm cold to touch. The viscous fan was running. Upon releasing the air, the reservoir tank was empty and I added about quarter of 1 gallon Prestone 50/50 coolant. I started headed back home and the temp gauge went to the middle and the red was off. I was only running between 55-65 mph. I made it home luckily with only 25 miles away when the coolant incident happened. The car was fine and the back to normal.

Now my questioned, what cause all this coolant bubbling, spewing out of the overflow pipe? Is my engine fine? Could it be air in the cooling system?

By the way, this is the third incident wherein every uphill climb the temp started to go up and coolant spewing from the reservoir. First and second incident pressure cap was not replaced. Third incident pressure cap was replaced but leaks coming from the overflow pipe. I'm still using the stock reservoir and t-stat was not replaced.

 

[singingcamel]

NO body really wants to tell you whats wrong.
is you lower radiator hose cool when you are pressurising the overflow?

 

[jrolfedrev]

NO body really wants to tell you whats wrong.
is you lower radiator hose cool when you are pressurising the overflow?

Yes, it was cool to touch. Thanks for your response.

 

[Mongo]

sound like air in the system...

 

[Blue]

yeah, sounds like you're not really circulating coolant

 

[singingcamel]

you may want to change or look at your thermostat. sounds like its nor circulating, keep us posted please

 

[JohnMc]

Sounds like a loose liner - no coolant going out the exhaust? Maybe exhaust pressurizing the coolant system.

 

[adriatic04]

Shouldn't the lower hose be cool?

 

[roverMc]

you may want to change or look at your thermostat. sounds like its nor circulating, keep us posted please

x2 Does it run a little warm then got hot, or does it got straight to hot from normal?

 

[adriatic04]

I am back. Losing coolant still, no overheating though. Just took a 300 mile trip and no issues but coolant loss after return trip.

So is the lower radiator hose supposed to be cold when coolant is flowing and pressurized?

 

[bmn1965]

Change your thermostat it will only cost you a few bucks and read up on treads about the viscous clutch. And the lower hose should not be cool to the touch!!! Your thermostat is not opening up right!!

 

[roverMc]

Change your thermostat it will only cost you a few bucks and read up on treads about the viscous clutch. And the lower hose should not be cool to the touch!!! Your thermostat is not opening up right!!

x2, the tstat is probably not opening all the way. I changed mine recently and it was the rubber seal on the inside of it causing the problem.

 

[adriatic04]

What does your engine temp run at?

I am going to pick a new stat tomorrow and chg

 

[singingcamel]

Heres my thoughts on your problem . You probably have a cracked liner or a cracked block issue.
The crack is allowing the exhaust stroke to dump the end products of combustion into the defect thus pressurizing the system .
I cannot prove thisnext point but i think all the pressure is shunted to the upper hose and radiator not allowing the coolant to circulate correctly leaving the lower hose cool and pressurizing the whole system and causing the overflow at the expansion tank.
I have 2 disco 11 s at the shop right now with the same problem.
the scenario is as follows for most crackeed sleeves or blocks.
The engine starts to over heat and pressurize , everyone jumps to the conclusion it must be the head gaskets,they replace them and still the pressurizing continues.
The next step is to blame the radiator and that gets replaced , but the pressure continues.
Yes the radiator could be the culprit on some rare occasions but very few are the real cause.
A bad water pump will cause heating issues but rarely hard upper and lower hoses and a pressurized system
the hard upper and lower hoses are a sign of pressure usually due to a block failure of some sort . But I would change that thermostat because thats the cheapest option at this point..Good luck and keep us all posted.Do a compression check to isolate the bad cylinder.....

 

[ptschram]

Marc has some good observations and some thing I'll address further

Heres my thoughts on your problem . You probably have a cracked liner or a cracked block issue.

Cracked blocks and liners are very rare. What is not so rare is for the liners to move allowing either mixing of coolant and exhaust gases, or the venting of exhaust gases into the cooling system. Either way, it's not good and mostly semantics, but the block material rarely cracks.

The crack is allowing the exhaust stroke to dump the end products of combustion into the defect thus pressurizing the system .

It is probably happening during the compression stroke, ot the exhaust stroke. During much of the exhaust stroke, the combustion chamber is open to the atmosphere.

I cannot prove thisnext point but i think all the pressure is shunted to the upper hose and radiator not allowing the coolant to circulate correctly leaving the lower hose cool and pressurizing the whole system and causing the overflow at the expansion tank.

Close Marc! What happens is that the gas displaces the coolant and thus, there is a huge air bubble formed at the top of the engine. This is also why the heater quits working-all of the coolant has been either sucked into the combustion chamber, or otherwise purged from the cooling system.

I have 2 disco 11 s at the shop right now with the same problem.
the scenario is as follows for most crackeed sleeves or blocks.
The engine starts to over heat and pressurize , everyone jumps to the conclusion it must be the head gaskets,they replace them and still the pressurizing continues.
The next step is to blame the radiator and that gets replaced , but the pressure continues.
Yes the radiator could be the culprit on some rare occasions but very few are the real cause.
A bad water pump will cause heating issues but rarely hard upper and lower hoses and a pressurized system
the hard upper and lower hoses are a sign of pressure usually due to a block failure of some sort . But I would change that thermostat because thats the cheapest option at this point..Good luck and keep us all posted.Do a compression check to isolate the bad cylinder.....

I don't know how you'd know it was the block if you didn't replace the head gaskets. I have encountered this situation countless number of times. So far, I have yet to have a situation where I replaced the head gaskets where it was the block and not the head gasket. That said, Marty just got a '99 P38 from me where it was so badly overheated that the cylinder heads were leaking coolant from beneath the valve seats. THAT engine got hot enough that I refused to merely replace the head gaskets.

Now that I've said that, I tend to think that if folks did not allow these engines to get SO hot, they'd be fine with just ahead gasket replacement. I really think that far too many folks think that they can add coolant when the heater quits working... For some reason, the DII tends to be less tolerant than the GEMS engines.