thedude said:
Man, I'm telling you...A Cat...problem solved
Unless the dogs are just freaks about eating cats they will adjust and be fine.
copperhead snakes
- Thread starter thedude
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Man, I'm telling you...A Cat...problem solved
Unless the dogs are just freaks about eating cats they will adjust and be fine.
If anything, I'd rate a brown recluse as the most dangerous species we live around. Even more than black widows.msggunny said:
"Combat town" at Camp Pendleton was crawling with them.
Here's something I wrote for the local paper a few years back. Turns out a Henry Co. woman died just two weeks ago...
For those that have spent any time in the Blue Ridge Mountains, your shadow has fallen across a rattlesnake more than once, though you may not have known it at the time, and despite the menace so vividly implanted by countless movies (including that supremely stupid scene in Lonesome Dove, where the hapless cowboy is done in by a battalion of angry water moccasins), you have a far greater chance of being killed by lightning than by a snake. Of the 8,500 bites reported annually in the United States, less than a dozen prove fatal. By comparison, 50 or so die from allergic reactions to insect stings while at least 200 are killed by lightning. Of the these twelve or so fatalities, half are attributable to a single species, the Mojave rattler, a smallish snake with a potent venom all out of proportion to its bodily size. Since record-keeping began in Virginia in 1947, there have been but six deaths from snakebite: three by religious fundamentalist "serpent handlers" in southwestern Wythe County, and of the others cases, only one had a clear-cut patient history indicating death attributable to snakebite, a timber rattler. The most recent victim was a Henry Co. woman who died two weeks ago, and though the snake was never identified, death was most likely from anaphylaxis.
In Virginia, the most commonly-reported bite is from the copperhead, as these snakes prefer dry woodlands, areas that are also popular for recreation. No one, though, has ever died from a copperhead bite, nor has anyone died from the second most common snakebite, the cottonmouth water moccasin. The third most common bite in the state is from the canebrake rattler; it has a potent neuro- and cardio-toxic venom. Curiously, more bites occur annually in North Carolina than any other state.
According to Dr. Sterling Williamson, a noted local authority who has treated over 100 bites, and has been consulted on hundreds more from all over the southeastern United States, "...the best first aid is your car keys, as most people loose all reason after a bite." Tourniquets ask the venom to stay in one area, concentrating the damage to one extremity, while 'cut and suction' or immersing the limb in ice may result in more tissue damage than the bite itself; mouth suction invariably produces a nasty infection. Three conditions must be met for the suction only method to be of any benefit: the bite is from a rattler, medical help is more than two hours away, and the procedure is accomplished immediately after the bite by a knowledgeable individual, preferably using The ExtractorTM, [http://www.sawyerproducts.com/B6B.htm] an inexpensive, syringe-like device that produces a superior vacuum. One South American authority even claims to "cure" snakebite with high voltage (i.e., a jumper wire from the vehicle's ignition coil) applied to the region of the bite, though the medical evidence for this is anecdotal at best.
Particularly in rattlers, 25 to 40% are 'dry bites', as the snake, unless truly provoked, realizes that you are too big to be lunch and won't waste its precious venom. Even if an hour or more from your vehicle, take an easy path out, keeping cardiovascular exertion to a minimum by carrying the victim, if possible; splinting the extremity to reduce motion is also beneficial. If unsure of the species, kill the snake and bring along to the hospital as an aid in determining type and quantity of antivenin needed. Beware, though, as the snake's head can bite reflexively for up to an hour after its apparent demise. In the event that you are among the unlucky U.S. dozen, death is a day or more away, as American snakes lack the instantaneous, drop-dead potency found in so many Hollywood movies.
Once at the hospital, treatment is basically observation, anti-biotics, fluids and the eventual elevation of the extremity to encourage circulation, so that the venom can be metabolized by the system. Polyvalent antivenin (used for all bites except the potent coral snake) is administered only as a last resort, as 40% of its recipients develop serum sickness, a not inconsequential problem by itself. Again, anything that you do to localize the venom will likely exacerbate the damage to that extremity. The worst effects of a bite will probably be three months of lethargy.
Drop for drop, the American coral snake (remember the rhyme "...red and black, friend of Jack, red and yellow, kill a fellow.") has one of the most potent, hemotoxic venoms in the world, but it is a small snake and limited in range to the southeastern United States. Australia has a substantial number of quite deadly snakes, among them, the death adder, sea snake (drop for drop, five times more potent than cobra venom) and copperhead (no relation the U.S. copperhead). Around the world, other deadly snakes include the bushmaster of Central and South America, the Gaboon viper, and the Indian banded krait. This latter one has a 70% mortality rate, even if one has the misfortune of being bitten while walking into the hospital. While the king cobra has a potent venom, what makes this reptile truly deadly is its size, as it can grow to 18 feet.
Is this a warrant for an anti-snake crusade? Of course not: all snakes, including the venomous ones, provide an invaluable ecological function by controlling rodent populations. When away from your vehicle or hiking in snake country, be alert and move cautiously, especially around sunny rock ledges. I have come face to face with several large (i.e., 6 foot plus) eastern diamondback rattlers, but none wanted to hang around and continue the conversation any more than I did.
For those that have spent any time in the Blue Ridge Mountains, your shadow has fallen across a rattlesnake more than once, though you may not have known it at the time, and despite the menace so vividly implanted by countless movies (including that supremely stupid scene in Lonesome Dove, where the hapless cowboy is done in by a battalion of angry water moccasins), you have a far greater chance of being killed by lightning than by a snake. Of the 8,500 bites reported annually in the United States, less than a dozen prove fatal. By comparison, 50 or so die from allergic reactions to insect stings while at least 200 are killed by lightning. Of the these twelve or so fatalities, half are attributable to a single species, the Mojave rattler, a smallish snake with a potent venom all out of proportion to its bodily size. Since record-keeping began in Virginia in 1947, there have been but six deaths from snakebite: three by religious fundamentalist "serpent handlers" in southwestern Wythe County, and of the others cases, only one had a clear-cut patient history indicating death attributable to snakebite, a timber rattler. The most recent victim was a Henry Co. woman who died two weeks ago, and though the snake was never identified, death was most likely from anaphylaxis.
In Virginia, the most commonly-reported bite is from the copperhead, as these snakes prefer dry woodlands, areas that are also popular for recreation. No one, though, has ever died from a copperhead bite, nor has anyone died from the second most common snakebite, the cottonmouth water moccasin. The third most common bite in the state is from the canebrake rattler; it has a potent neuro- and cardio-toxic venom. Curiously, more bites occur annually in North Carolina than any other state.
According to Dr. Sterling Williamson, a noted local authority who has treated over 100 bites, and has been consulted on hundreds more from all over the southeastern United States, "...the best first aid is your car keys, as most people loose all reason after a bite." Tourniquets ask the venom to stay in one area, concentrating the damage to one extremity, while 'cut and suction' or immersing the limb in ice may result in more tissue damage than the bite itself; mouth suction invariably produces a nasty infection. Three conditions must be met for the suction only method to be of any benefit: the bite is from a rattler, medical help is more than two hours away, and the procedure is accomplished immediately after the bite by a knowledgeable individual, preferably using The ExtractorTM, [http://www.sawyerproducts.com/B6B.htm] an inexpensive, syringe-like device that produces a superior vacuum. One South American authority even claims to "cure" snakebite with high voltage (i.e., a jumper wire from the vehicle's ignition coil) applied to the region of the bite, though the medical evidence for this is anecdotal at best.
Particularly in rattlers, 25 to 40% are 'dry bites', as the snake, unless truly provoked, realizes that you are too big to be lunch and won't waste its precious venom. Even if an hour or more from your vehicle, take an easy path out, keeping cardiovascular exertion to a minimum by carrying the victim, if possible; splinting the extremity to reduce motion is also beneficial. If unsure of the species, kill the snake and bring along to the hospital as an aid in determining type and quantity of antivenin needed. Beware, though, as the snake's head can bite reflexively for up to an hour after its apparent demise. In the event that you are among the unlucky U.S. dozen, death is a day or more away, as American snakes lack the instantaneous, drop-dead potency found in so many Hollywood movies.
Once at the hospital, treatment is basically observation, anti-biotics, fluids and the eventual elevation of the extremity to encourage circulation, so that the venom can be metabolized by the system. Polyvalent antivenin (used for all bites except the potent coral snake) is administered only as a last resort, as 40% of its recipients develop serum sickness, a not inconsequential problem by itself. Again, anything that you do to localize the venom will likely exacerbate the damage to that extremity. The worst effects of a bite will probably be three months of lethargy.
Drop for drop, the American coral snake (remember the rhyme "...red and black, friend of Jack, red and yellow, kill a fellow.") has one of the most potent, hemotoxic venoms in the world, but it is a small snake and limited in range to the southeastern United States. Australia has a substantial number of quite deadly snakes, among them, the death adder, sea snake (drop for drop, five times more potent than cobra venom) and copperhead (no relation the U.S. copperhead). Around the world, other deadly snakes include the bushmaster of Central and South America, the Gaboon viper, and the Indian banded krait. This latter one has a 70% mortality rate, even if one has the misfortune of being bitten while walking into the hospital. While the king cobra has a potent venom, what makes this reptile truly deadly is its size, as it can grow to 18 feet.
Is this a warrant for an anti-snake crusade? Of course not: all snakes, including the venomous ones, provide an invaluable ecological function by controlling rodent populations. When away from your vehicle or hiking in snake country, be alert and move cautiously, especially around sunny rock ledges. I have come face to face with several large (i.e., 6 foot plus) eastern diamondback rattlers, but none wanted to hang around and continue the conversation any more than I did.
p m said:
I was bitten by one at the begining of the final FTX in basic training. 3 days of training, it was hot, and I didn't know I had been bitten. It didn't get in my skin and cause necrosis to any great degree, and didn't leave any scar to speak of.
The crap got right in my blood, and caused a problem. It was a short 16 miles back to barracks, but it was over 100 out, and I was sick. I'd been in the heat and dirt for three days, and the march was almost too much with the poison in me. I almost didn't make it. I kept falling out, and suspected I was just flagging, and that pounding the dirt harder would give me the energy to continue. The guy behind me kept dragging me back up, and I just pushed on, in sort of a daze. I just thought I was pussing out, you know, so I said I was fine.
We had some sort of a ceremony, which I can hardly remember, but they played fanfare for the common man, and we marched through fire, I'm sure of that. I collapsed in the barracks tore my short open, and I was all black and splotchy.
I wasn't really around for this, but I was told that the drill sgt put me in his own Saleen Mustang ( a treat to hear about after months without any performance vehicles) and took me to the hospital. I have a vague recollection of lots of cursing. I do remember waking up with lots of tubes from ivs and such, flipping out, and being put back to sleep.
When I was finally let out, I was told the truth of it all, which was that I was near dead when I came in. Those spiders are bad, but something about them REALLY disagrees with me, apparently. I still don't know how long I was in there.
Training was over then, so it wasn't a big deal, but we still had a few formations over a week or so, and a parade. We had been delayed for prosessing somehow. Until the parade they had an orange vest on me because my mind wasn't quite right due to some sort of medication they had in me. They did let me prove that I could pass the last few tests, though, even though the docs said I was done.
Years later, I was bitten by one again, and this time had the dead bugger to show for it. It didn't hit me near as hard, but I did need medication for a while.
Like I said, I'm scared to death of spiders, always have been. Only, now I have a reason to be.
Cheers,
Kennith
If you are being overrun by Copperheads simply unleash wave after wave of Chinese needle snakes.
They'll wipe out the Copperheads.
Then introduce a fabulous type of gorilla that thrives on snake meat.
When wintertime rolls around, the gorillas simply freeze to death.
Problem solved.
They'll wipe out the Copperheads.
Then introduce a fabulous type of gorilla that thrives on snake meat.
When wintertime rolls around, the gorillas simply freeze to death.
Problem solved.
JustAddMtns said:If you are being overrun by Copperheads simply unleash wave after wave of Chinese needle snakes.
They'll wipe out the Copperheads.
Then introduce a fabulous type of gorilla that thrives on snake meat.
When wintertime rolls around, the gorillas simply freeze to death.
Problem solved.
:rofl:
jesus, kinda went the other way, but ok
p m said:
If you said "Combat town at Camp LeJeune", I'd believe ya... we have brown recluse here in TN/VA line area, but I don't think you have them west of the Rockies...... there's probably something similar, but not a brown recluse....
We do have black widows, timber rattlers, copperheads.... cottonmouths aren't close (much further down drainage than here); nor eastern diamondbacks, have to get out to the coastal plain for them. No corals here, either.... again, get down along the gulf coast, sure.....
Leslie said:
From http://dermatology.cdlib.org/DOJvol5num2/special/recluse.html :
"The name "brown recluse" spider correctly refers only to the midwest species; additional species are known by common names such as the desert recluse, the Arizona recluse, etc. Unfortunately, non-arachnologists incorrectly lump them all under the "brown recluse" moniker. This is a potentially incorrect extrapolation because only the brown recluse has been intensively studied. All recluse species are probably capable of inflicting necrotizing bites, however, there may be behavioral and toxicological differences among the various species. "
... which clearly establishes me as a non-arachnologist., but doesn't change the outcome.
thedude said:
Actually, I was referring to the Camp Pendelton reference, but Peter summed it up quite nicely.
My dog had a run in with a pretty good sized copperhead last year. He knows what they are now and will let you know when he finds one. He was back to his normal self in about a day. Snakes are good those copperheadedrattlemocosins arent good if you have small children running around. Best I can tell you can only get bit by a copperhead if you step on him or make him feel threatened I have stepped over them accidentally they are pretty easy going.
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p m said:
lol, fair enough, I'm not an arachnologist either....
http://www.utextension.utk.edu/publications/pbfiles/pb1191.pdf
Learning all the time....
Tennessee and Kentucky have lots of them, which I knew.
But, I should clarify that, what I just learned, while we do have some here on the north-eastern end of the state, I'm on the fringe of their territory... the county to the east of me (Johnson County, against the NC border, and maybe Carter and Unicoi Counties, too), may not have them, but there are documented here in Kingsport.... and, Virginia probably doesn't have many of them at all, nor North Carolina... (which, I find interesting, as at infantry school they taught us to check for them, lol!)
But, as you said, its kin that is found in your neck of the woods, while maybe not as severe, still wouldn't have been fun....
Since we're telling war stories, I got tagged by a smaller copperhead while foraging for some kindling one afternoon. I didn't know what had happened at first; several hours later while vomiting and beginning to shake @ the ER, the nurse found the small puncture wounds in the web of my thumb. I received antibiotics and fluids, and was kept an extra day for observation. I did not feel any long lasting effects, not like when I was bit by a fiddleback spider in a dis-used hog shed about a year later. I had 2 days in the hospital, wound cleaning, antihistimines, topical care and plenty of fluid, and scarring from the cleansing attempt on my belly that is still visible to this day.
thedude said:
Snakes can swim like a fish only with direction. I'll bet they didn't climb the stairs unnoticed. I'll also bet that they did not come through a hole in the roof. That leaves one access point.....The toilet. It just takes a minute to check and it may save your life.
Just imagine that you are enjoying the morning paper while doing your buisness. Next thing you know you feel a stinging sensation. Not the familiar stinging that you are used to when you pee but a deeper stinging. You stand up and see a big snake. Yeah it looks small on the floor but it will look big in the toilet. Next thing you know you are tits up on the floor. I ALWAYS look before I set down. It could save your life.
The Mrs. & I see them occasionally when we're canoeing in the rivers. They just slither along the water's surface like it was terra firma. That pretty much freaks my wife for the rest of the trip.I HATE PONIES said:
I have to tell this story since the topic is snakes.
Keep in mind, no critter scares me more than snakes.
We used to own an old farmhouse with a basement that had a concrete floor, cinderblock walls, some floor drains, and a lot of holes for water & critters to get in. I used that basement for an office/television room.
Late one weekend night, I was watching the Exorsist all alone in the darkened basement, sitting in my office chair. The movie had me pretty freaked out in the first place, then I sensed movement on the floor at my feet-----a great big F-ING SNAKE was slithering underneath my chair towards the television. I about shit myself. Without thinking, I jumped up, grabbed a sand shovel, & diced that snake into about a hundred pieces.