Custom springs for D2

p m

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Callsign: AK6PM
Apr 19, 2004
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Over the rear axle:
  • Greg Davis bumper ~80-100 lbs
  • custom swingaway ~40 lbs
  • 45L water tank. 96 lbs
  • Alloy rack. 80 lbs (thank god I traded in the BajaRack for a Frontrunner)
  • Steel sliders. ~80 lbs?
  • Fridge/slide ~70 pounds
  • hilift
  • spare parts ~30 lbs
  • Camping gear and tools. Who knows... 100 lbs?
  • Rear seats deleted.. saves me 80 lbs
  • alloy gas tank skid ~30 lbs
  • 1 gal motor oil, 1 gal trans fluid, 2 gal distilled water, quart gear oil, gal of white gas, pint brake fluid, pint p/s fluid... etc
  • 24+ cans of beer!
That brings up a different subject - weight distribution. I was able to tell if a 50-lb bag of snow chains was in the rear or on the floor of front passenger seat; ever since I try to move as much gear as I can towards the center of the wheelbase.

Found it is a lot easier in a LWB Classic than in a D1/D2, but the same concept holds.
Are you driving the truck with full-sized rear passengers a lot?
 

Jeff Blake

Well-known member
May 6, 2016
267
0
Pacific Beach, San Diego
That brings up a different subject - weight distribution. I was able to tell if a 50-lb bag of snow chains was in the rear or on the floor of front passenger seat; ever since I try to move as much gear as I can towards the center of the wheelbase.

Found it is a lot easier in a LWB Classic than in a D1/D2, but the same concept holds.
Are you driving the truck with full-sized rear passengers a lot?
Yeah I move my tools and various heavy bits to under the passenger footwell when I go out alone. Other than the water tank on the roof, I feel like my weight is pretty well distributed.

I've removed the three rear seats, so no passengers. Those seats must have weighed 80-100 pounds, so that's nice.... but not enough

According to my simple calculations, I have a rear corner weight of 2,000 lbs, which is insane, and can't be right.
16.54" spring length
11" installed
5.54" x 360 (spring rate) = 1,994 pounds

But immediately after installing the OME's, and for a couple of months, I was at a good 3" lift (2.5" more than what I have now)... so 1,094 corner weight.

I think I'm going to give the Terrafirma HD springs a quick go. I need a spare set of springs anyway if I am to get these custom ones made. The specs say the spring rate is a variable 297-447 lbs, and I believe the same length as the OME. I'll try them with 2" spacers
 

p m

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Callsign: AK6PM
Apr 19, 2004
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IMHO, a water tank does not belong on the roof rack, neither do jerry cans. But you pick your truck's handling battles.

To give you an idea, this is how I stashed about 120 lb of spares and tools in a LWB Classic; the seats were taken out for a trip, and I had a perfectly flat floor from the backs of the front seats to tailgate.
 

Va_Disco

Well-known member
Dec 22, 2014
104
0
Hampton Roads, Va.
Jeff Blake; But immediately after installing the OME's said:
If your over loaded all the time, A newly installed set of springs would preform flawlessly for a short period of time. They are designed to handle a permanent extra load of whatever the spring is rated for but will also handle additional weight for periods of time (say a week trip) but they are not designed to permanently stay over loaded. The springs will fatigue and drop and could even develop a memory so that they don't level out if you unload the vehicle.


Don't buy another set of TF springs to try and fix this problem.


1st step weigh the truck
2nd figure out what your weight distribution is based on the real weight of the truck.


after that you can figure out a plan to fix the problem.
when you weigh the truck do the front then the whole truck and then the rear. it wont be scientific but it will give you a very weight read out to start working with.
 

proper4wd

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2015
59
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boston
i bet your corner weight is absolutely 2000 pounds. plus about ~1500 on each front corner for a total gross approaching 7000. this is about what a built out, overloaded disco weighs.
 

Jeff Blake

Well-known member
May 6, 2016
267
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Pacific Beach, San Diego
That makes sense... my truck is always loaded.

I've never tried the Terrafirma HD's before.

OK I'll go to the dump and see if they will weigh me. Front/rear weights may be asking too much of them... we'll see
 

SGaynor

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Callsign: KN4KFS
Dec 6, 2006
5,664
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Bristol, TN
Do you drive around, day-in-day-out, with that thing loaded like that?

It seems like you expect an overweight truck to have the same ride height as an empty one? What is the lift height when the truck is empty? I'll bet it's more than 1.5"
 

Jeff Blake

Well-known member
May 6, 2016
267
0
Pacific Beach, San Diego
Do you drive around, day-in-day-out, with that thing loaded like that?
"
Yes, but I don't drive it much other than for going on trips, so it works out fine.

It seems like you expect an overweight truck to have the same ride height as an empty one? What is the lift height when the truck is empty? I'll bet it's more than 1.5
"
I don't expect the ride height of a loaded or unloaded truck to be the same... but I do expect the ride height to remain the same, when loaded all the time, over a 3-6 month period.
I haven't tried it empty in a long time, might be worth an experiment. But I can only remove approx 3-400 pounds easily
 

SGaynor

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Callsign: KN4KFS
Dec 6, 2006
5,664
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Bristol, TN
I'm sitting at 1.5" of lift in the rear right now with OME 763's, 2" spacers, D1 spring perches. With that setup I should be getting 4.5" of lift (2" spacer + 0.5" D1 perches + 2" spring) but I guess my rover is too fat
When I installed both the RTE and OME coils, I used spring compressors pretty heavily. Lift was good immediately after install, but over 3-6 months it drops 2-3"
I'm confused. You said you should have 4.5" of lift, but don't expect it to be that fully loaded. But then you say it dropped 2-3" over 6 months - that would mean it was initially 3.5-4.5" lifted fully loaded??

Yes, but I don't drive it much other than for going on trips, so it works out fine.
I don't expect the ride height of a loaded or unloaded truck to be the same... but I do expect the ride height to remain the same, when loaded all the time, over a 3-6 month period.
I haven't tried it empty in a long time, might be worth an experiment. But I can only remove approx 3-400 pounds easily
You've got the rear of that loaded to the gills. I think you have a lot more than 3-400 pounds back there. Heck the water is a hundred.
 

Jeff Blake

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May 6, 2016
267
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Pacific Beach, San Diego
Yes it was initially a solid 3-3.5" (with 2" spacers) lifted after installing the OMEs, fully loaded. It's dropped 2.5" since then

I totally do have more than 400 pounds. The OME's are "rated" for 450 pounds additional constant load, for 50mm of lift. I have at least double that when you factor in all the steel armor, custom swingaway, water, gear, fridge, etc. Heck the fridge alone weighs 55 pounds, and the fridge slide weighs 40 lbs. Thankfully I don't have drawers - however much I want them - impossible to justify 225 pounds for drawers.

Ideally I want a spring that is rated for my load, and to give 3" of lift WITHOUT using a spacer.... hence going the custom route. It just feels kind of wrong to have to do something custom like this... why isn't a spring available to do this? I suppose like VA_Disco was saying, there are people out there with similar loads, but they're not loaded all the time, so they can probably get away with using an OME or TF HD spring, and still get the 3" of lift. That's my theory
 

p m

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Apr 19, 2004
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You may also consider is that your truck may be a thousand pounds over GVWR, and most of the excess weight is on your body mounts. I don't know how a D2 rear axle's weight rating stacks up against D1/RRC/D90, either.
 

fishEH

Well-known member
Jan 26, 2009
6,286
5
Lake Villa, IL
Put your truck on a diet!! 45L of water AND 2 gal distilled water? Try 1 5gal jug. 1qt oil, not 4. 1qt trans fluid that works in the Trans and PS box. Nobody needs a gallon of white gas, try a quart.
I just saved you 9.5 gallons of liquid weight, lets call it 80lbs!!!

11". So they're compressed 5.54". The coils are pretty tight and I fear of them binding. 2" pucks don't help either. But without the pucks I'd be below stock height

I see what you're saying about the spring rate changing, but isn't that really up to the coilsprings.com to figure out? I'll say, hey, I want a 20" spring with xx OD, xx ID, and xx spring rate - they'll figure out the rest?



Totally agree. I do what I can. For example... I dropped cast iron in favor of regular pots/pans recently, but the gains are minimal compared to my heavy hitters that I can't really downsize from - listed below. A lot of people have this same stuff so I'm kind of at a loss for why Im struggling so bad. I feel like I am 300+ pounds overweight on my current springs, at least

Over the rear axle:
  • Greg Davis bumper ~80-100 lbs
  • custom swingaway ~40 lbs
  • 45L water tank. 96 lbs
  • Alloy rack. 80 lbs (thank god I traded in the BajaRack for a Frontrunner)
  • Steel sliders. ~80 lbs?
  • Fridge/slide ~70 pounds
  • hilift
  • spare parts ~30 lbs
  • Camping gear and tools. Who knows... 100 lbs?
  • Rear seats deleted.. saves me 80 lbs
  • alloy gas tank skid ~30 lbs
  • 1 gal motor oil, 1 gal trans fluid, 2 gal distilled water, quart gear oil, gal of white gas, pint brake fluid, pint p/s fluid... etc
  • 24+ cans of beer!
 

Jeff Blake

Well-known member
May 6, 2016
267
0
Pacific Beach, San Diego
You may also consider is that your truck may be a thousand pounds over GVWR, and most of the excess weight is on your body mounts. I don't know how a D2 rear axle's weight rating stacks up against D1/RRC/D90, either.
I have no idea either

Put your truck on a diet!! 45L of water AND 2 gal distilled water? Try 1 5gal jug. 1qt oil, not 4. 1qt trans fluid that works in the Trans and PS box. Nobody needs a gallon of white gas, try a quart.
I just saved you 9.5 gallons of liquid weight, lets call it 80lbs!!!
You're not wrong. I'm going to keep the 45L water, it's incredibly useful and I'm proud of the hot water/shower system I built. If I'm only out for a weekend i don't fill it all the way. The idea with the distilled water is obviously to have clean water to put in the cooling system if necessary, and I'd hate to put tap water in it. From rebuilding the engine firsthand, I know it's nearly impossibly to fully flush the system - and I'm super anal about that stuff. I could possibly get away with 1 gal. If a tranny soft line blows, 1 quart of trans fluid won't do me much good.
Unfortunately I burn oil (another mystery)- perhaps a quart every 500-700 miles, so I kind of need a gallon hand


My plan is to get the truck weighed, cut down 40-60 pounds of gear, put in Terrafirma HD springs w/ 2" spacers, finish the rear panhard mod, and go from there. Oh and I'm getting 315/75r16 KM3's soon :) Was depressed the other day when I measured my 235/85r16 K02's @ 29.5"

Haven't heard another enticing solution yet. I don't have a lot of faith in the TF springs, so if (when) they start sagging, I'll have a spare spring to send to coilsprings.com and have custom ones made

That's all I got
 

fishEH

Well-known member
Jan 26, 2009
6,286
5
Lake Villa, IL
If you simply can't cut weight get a set of 5" RTE springs, or look into Bronco springs. There's a guy in California running Bronco springs on his D1 and getting about 5" of lift. I have no clue about spring rate, but I know they're tall.
 

Jeff Blake

Well-known member
May 6, 2016
267
0
Pacific Beach, San Diego
If you simply can't cut weight get a set of 5" RTE springs, or look into Bronco springs. There's a guy in California running Bronco springs on his D1 and getting about 5" of lift. I have no clue about spring rate, but I know they're tall.
Not aware of any 5" springs from RTE. I tried their heaviest duty springs first (but without spacers) and was sitting even lower than I am now. I also burned that bridge and prefer not to deal with them anymore. Custom made springs would also be cheaper than RTE springs

Interesting on the Bronco springs.. haven't heard anything about that... I'll try and find some info on them.
 

rovercanus

Well-known member
Callsign: kj4csi
Apr 24, 2004
9,141
5
Ditch the distilled water and carry a gallon of 50/50 mix. Why would you put water in your cooling system?
 

Jeff Blake

Well-known member
May 6, 2016
267
0
Pacific Beach, San Diego
This is probably going to be a waste of money, but the Terrafirma springs arrived today.

They measure 440mm (driver side), and 425mm (passenger)
8.5 coils
18.4mm wire diameter
progressive coils

So they're a little taller and beefier than the OME's.
Annoying that they are sided springs.

If they don't work, I'll at least have a spare spring to send in to coilsprings.com

Unfortunately I won't have a chance to install them until after Thanksgiving