D2 Cranks, No Start. Seems "Fuel Cut Off Strategy" is Enabled

[RoverbyProxy]

its odd that it was running ok one minute then started to sputter the next. CKPS is still suspect. I believe when you replace the CKPS the ecm needs to relearn the new sensor which if I am correct is just key on for 10 min's before cranking (thought I read that somewhere when I was getting frustrated with my D2). Clean ALL grounds and inspect the main fuse panel under the dash for water intrusion (any evidence!). Are you getting a good wave form from the Crank? Are you sure you didn't jump timing?

 

[lifestyler]

Hi Everyone

Thanks for the responses

jafir/RoverbyProxy:
Yep, installed correctly. Even looked at the signal from the CKPS and it's a perfect sine wave.

seventyfive:
Will check all those things regarding the engine compartment fuse box today and report back (currently it's 7:15am here in Perth, Western Australia)

Australia has had Emissions control in our cars for centuries and I do believe the Disco has it too. I have looked at the Rave manual and I don't think we have all the emission controls though.

Don't have a spare fuse box but will try jumpering the main relay and will also check for dry solder joints etc.

I'm off now to resolve the CMPS issue so it works at least and then I'm onto the fuse box and then searching for a hammer

Is there any way to bypass the alarm so that I can eliminate that?

Cheers

Erron

 

[jafir]

North American Spec cars have more involved emissions system. We have an extra set of oxygen sensors and some of our discos have a smog pump system called secondary air injection that provides extra air to the exhaust gas on cold startup to improve catalyst efficiency. I'm pretty sure based on what the guys over at aulro have said that your cars don't have these extra items.

 

[jafir]

Is there any way to bypass the alarm so that I can eliminate that?

Not completely. There are options you can turn off in the BCU with nanocom or hawkeye, but there is no way I know if to completely eliminate it.

I don't think alarm is your problem though. If it were, it wouldn't even crank.

 

[JohnB]

Not completely. There are options you can turn off in the BCU with nanocom or hawkeye, but there is no way I know if to completely eliminate it.

I don't think alarm is your problem though. If it were, it wouldn't even crank.

Plus the added bonus of your horns honking and your lights flashing.

 

[lifestyler]

Hmmm...

I took the crank pulley off to have a gander at the Camshaft Position Sensor (CMPS) and saw that the water pump had a drip and it finished right above the connector for the CMPS. The CMPS now has a fabricated tin cover until I have the time to install a new waterpump.

I cleaned everything up and tested the waveform. Not perfect but good enough (I think the image is upside down due to my scope connections):

http://imageshack.us/a/img100/5967/waveform.jpg

There is now a GND supply to one side of the Fuel Pump Relay Coil BUT, this only happens when I crank the engine.

I'm thinking that I may not have even tested the coil voltage to the fuel pump relay while cranking??? I'm sure I did but I can't bloody remember!

I can hear the pump, as I did before but I was wondering; is it possible that the pump sounds fine but it is packed up inside (seals or whatever) and simply doesn't supply the required pressure?

Cheers


Erron

 

[lifestyler]

Well I took out the fuel pump assembly, put it in a bowl of fuel with the swirl pot full as well and connected 12V.

No fuel came out of the nozzle, so I thought it may be the regulator packing up.

I took out the spring from the regulator and extracted the fuel regulator (housed in the top of the fuel pump). I then applied 12V again.

No fuel came out of the hole where the regulator went in.

It is definitely 100% the fuel pump

Anyhow, I'm going to retain the fuel pump assembly, the sender unit and the regulator and purchase a good quality high performance submersible fuel pump that handles greater than 3.5 bar (50.75 lbf.in2) and 120 litres/hr (211 pints/hr) (234 US pints/hr) and drop that into the swirl pot of the fuel pump assembly so that it's filter is at the bottom of the swirl pot and all I have to do is connect the output from the new pump to the input where the regulator goes and modify the electrical connection...not too close to cause a spark though, otherwise BOOM

Here's the fuel pump assembly ready for the new pump:
http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/1861/img1347x.jpg


Here's the buggered fuel pump:
http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/6359/img1348tt.jpg

Better solution at 1/3rd the price!!!

Lessons learnt:
A running fuel pump doesn't mean it works.
The fuel pump is activated when cranked and when the engine is running, not when in key position II
Test a running fuel pump for pressure sooner than later.


Cheers


Erron

 

[RoverbyProxy]

keep us posted. sounds like you are also in the market for a water pump or valley pan gasket.

 

[RoverbyProxy]

I'm sure your connections to the cam sensor are good, you live in australia so they are supposed to be upside down . Sorry, petty attempt at humor.

 

[JohnB]

Good job. I thought you already tested fuel pressure. There is a schrader valve on the back of the fuel rail that you can test for fuel pressure in the future.

 

[ptschram]

its odd that it was running ok one minute then started to sputter the next. CKPS is still suspect. I believe when you replace the CKPS the ecm needs to relearn the new sensor which if I am correct is just key on for 10 min's before cranking (thought I read that somewhere when I was getting frustrated with my D2). Clean ALL grounds and inspect the main fuse panel under the dash for water intrusion (any evidence!). Are you getting a good wave form from the Crank? Are you sure you didn't jump timing?

I was thinking of your truck while reading this thread.

The fuel shut-off is so that the fuel pump doesn't continue to pump fuel if the engine quits for any reason.

W/R/T the CB fuel pump repair, I've found that in some cases, the cost of a new fuel pump assembly is less than the multiple costs of a poorly done CB fuel pump job.

I once had a Defender owner who refused to buy the entire assembly cost me a week's worth of work and hundreds of dollars and WAY too much time-and he ended up buying a new one in the end anyway!

 

[carlosz]

two things to check, one is the ecm fuse I believe it is number 14... the fuse bux develops internal shorts... another is the throtle position sensor, if it fails in wot (wide open throtle) mode, it thinks the engine is flooded and goes into clearing mode... that is spark, no fuel / injector pulse until it reaches over 1000 rpm
since you are not clearing the engine, it never catches...
check the condition of your o2 sensors as well...coolant temp sensor activity will affect fuel delivery in form of pulse width as well.

 

[RoverbyProxy]

I was thinking of your truck while reading this thread.

The fuel shut-off is so that the fuel pump doesn't continue to pump fuel if the engine quits for any reason.

W/R/T the CB fuel pump repair, I've found that in some cases, the cost of a new fuel pump assembly is less than the multiple costs of a poorly done CB fuel pump job.

I once had a Defender owner who refused to buy the entire assembly cost me a week's worth of work and hundreds of dollars and WAY too much time-and he ended up buying a new one in the end anyway!

I was as well but doesn't the IDM only control spark. I believe in my case I had fuel but, electrical gremlins could just be playing their funny lil games

 

[lifestyler]

Hi Everyone

All resolved and purrs like a kitten now

John
I did test the fuel pressure, however I mustn't have tested it when I bypassed the fuel pump relay to manually turn on the fuel pump on.

Paul
LOL. Yes, after I pulled apart the black assembly within the fuel pump assembly and saw the brilliance of the design, I thought "too hard" and went and purchased a complete full fuel pump assembly.

If anyone has any inkling to re-manufacture an after market pump sub-assembly, then the pump landrover use is a Bosch; part number 0 580 453 439 (or one that handles 55PSI at 120 litres/hr).

Land Rover have done a damn fine job regarding the filtering of fuel in that fuel going through the Bosch Fuel Pump and the regulator has been filtered three times.

So, after all this, it was a fuel pump that ran but didn't actually pump.

Thanks for everyone's input too

Now onto replacing the seal at the front of the crank and the water pump.

Cheers


Erron