D2 No Start & M/S Flashing, Cranking fine...

[1995-Disco-I]

Well I haven't been on here in a while as I haven't had any real issues...

Well, that has changed. My D2 i use pretty much as a winter vehicle and garage my daily driver...

I haven't started or moved the D2 in around 1.5-2 months, I had leaky rear brake line and haven't had time to repair it until about a week ago... Now she wont start.

I notice even with a full charged battery, and a new battery at that, around 3-4 months old, the M & S lights are flashing. If i try to start it in N, I'm getting the same reaction of the engine cranking but not hitting at all. Doesn't even try to start... I shift it to Drive and the D flashes as well... So in short, the engine cranks over just fine but does not hit... Lights flashing, no codes stored in the ECU, If i select "pending codes" I do get 1842 & 1843. I shot a little either into the intake tube and it will hit off the either. I have listened for the fuel pump inside and outside with my ear pressed to the tank and when the wife turns the keys to the Run position, the pump does not run for the normal 1-3 seconds... Actually not put activation at all... The fuse is good and checks fine at 13v as well as pulling and swapping pump relays and I checked the socket at 13v in one of the 4 slots with the relay removed but I do not feel the relay "click" when the wife turns the keys to Run...

So I'm unsure if it is a bad pump or some other issue...

Any and all help would be great as i really cant afford to just throw money at this thing right now... Thanks guys and hope to hear from you guys soon...

Kelly

 

[JohnB]

After a certain amount of trial starts I believe the ECU stops sending ground to the fuel pump relay.
I ran into this with a parts truck once that didn't come with the alarm fob. It started fine for a few months but then went all crazy flashing lights and all. Never fixed it as we parted it out soon after.
Have you checked the inertia switch? That can cut the fuel on flash the lights. Its on the passenger firewall.

 

[1995-Disco-I]

JohnB, I pressed down on the inertia switch and tried that with no change... cranks over just fine, no hit....
:-(

 

[discostew]

Check for spark. Disco 2 won't run the fuel pump if it doesn't see crank sensor signal. The service manual says the fuel pump does a prime routine but in reality it doesn't. But also if you do have spark and no fuel pump then look at the ECM real close for any sign of a thermal event.

 

[discostew]

After a certain amount of trial starts I believe the ECU stops sending ground to the fuel pump relay.
I ran into this with a parts truck once that didn't come with the alarm fob. It started fine for a few months but then went all crazy flashing lights and all. Never fixed it as we parted it out soon after.
Have you checked the inertia switch? That can cut the fuel on flash the lights. Its on the passenger firewall.

This is true and I think has to do with security and long crank times. Inertia switch could do this for sure.

I would have your wife listen for the fuel pump again, but this time instead of just turning on the key crank the engine just a little bit. I think she will hear the pump come on. Then see what kind of pressure it has. I think your crank sensors ok since you said it popped off on whatever your spraying in the throttle.

Maybe check for rodent damage since it's been sitting for a while. You seem to have 2 problems. The no start might not have anything to do with the trans lights flashing.

 

[ezzzzzzz]

You could literally run a wire from the battery to the fuel pump to bypass all of the factory stuff and try to start the truck. If you tried to start the truck with a low battery the bcu will set the flashing dash lamps because the electronic controlled transmission cannot shift properly. The transmission will only engage reverse and 3rd gear too. Once the voltage is up to specs shutting off and restarting the truck will clear those flashing lights. Unless the truck actually starts I don't think the error will clear. Focus on the no start and ignore the flashing lights for the time being.
Your stating that the engine will fire off a shot of ether certainly points to a fuel pump/wiring issue.

 

[1995-Disco-I]

Well guys, we still couldnt hear the pump, so i removed the fuel pump relay and checked voltage on pin #87 on the relay with it connected and did not have any voltage coming through the relay... Swapped relays again, still the same... Crank and no start.

Tried another shot of starting fluid spray, and it will hit off the spray, but not run for even a second... So it is getting at least some spark...

I decided to bridge pins #30/#87 to bypass the relay and everything associated with it, i can now hear the pump!.. Cranked with the pump relay bypassed and with the pump running... still the same, doesn't even hit..... I shot a little shot of starting fluid in there with the pump running and it hit for just a second, but didn't really start.... So I'm guessing it is ECU related or something, but it doesn't seem to be really getting spark, at least not very much or out of time...

 

[discostew]

Check for spark. If no spark it's a crank sensor. Did you check the inertia switch?

 

[1995-Disco-I]

Check for spark. If no spark it's a crank sensor. Did you check the inertia switch?

Is the inertia switch a push button? If so, yes i pressed down on it and nothing seem to reset...

I?ll pull a plug and check for spark...

 

[discostew]

I think your also going to need to know if you have fuel pressure. Just hearing it run won't be enough. The fact that you never heard the pump run till you jumpered it tells me that maybe the truck doesn't see the crank sensor pulses. But the fact that it pops on either makes me think you have spark.So both can't be true unless this is an out of the ordinary problem. Got any WD40? That will burn and you can see if the truck will stay running. Your gonna blow something up with that starting fluid.

 

[the deputy]

If you are not getting voltage to the fuel pump, when you first turn the key on (3 or 7 seconds), then I would say it is not the crank sensor. The crank sensors primary function is to let the ECU/ECM know that the engine is turning over in a start mode or running and where number one cylinder is at. The ECU/ECM has a built in open loop function that sends voltage to the pump for initial/pressure fueling during start up, so you should get voltage for a brief period (when key first turned on or in crank mode).

Never seen a vehicle that disables the spark function, if the crank sensor goes bad. Usually, the ECU/ECM eliminates fuel pump operation or injectors firing.

I'd check spark, and listen to the fuel injectors and see if they are clicking (while engine is being turned over), check fuel pressure...and go from there.

Truth be told...I'd also be checking harnesses...for chewed up wires. Mice can reek havoc on wire harnesses...especially, when a vehicle sits more than it moves.

Good luck, fellow Michigander.

Brian.

 

[the deputy]

One other thing...

If you have a Digital Volt Meter, check the plug at the fuel injector and see if you have 12V constantly (with key on, engine off).

If you have 12V's on one side of the plug, set the meter on Ohms and check the other terminal to see if you have a ground signal (while cranking engine). It will not be a constant ground, the ECU/ECM controls the firing of the injector by grounding one terminal. It will be open, then closed (grounded) as the engine rotates.

If you don't have voltage, I'd be checking fuses and harnesses for the ECU/ECM.

Brian.

 

[1995-Disco-I]

Thanks guys!.... After letting it sit last night and going to let it sit today till after 2pm when i get out of work, I will check for the pump running again. Truth is, I live 1/2 block over from a busy street here in Kalamazoo so it is hard to hear the pump. I will have the wife on the key again and my ear pressed to the tank for the first try today and see if i hear it....

Then I’ll start running through checking for spark again, I’ve had to replace the Crank sensor on one of the other D2’s a few years ago, and i through it was this one, but after closer check, it was the Gold D2... This is the last Disco I have left and my primary means of transportation during winters here... So i need to act fast at this point..

Thanks guys and I will update later today!

 

[JohnB]

Assuming you do still have the fob?
Horn is not going off with the lights would be a good sign. I'm betting the pump crashed. Get a pressure tester on the Schrader valve.

 

[ezzzzzzz]

For what it is worth using an analog voltmeter is better than a digital for looking at fast switching circuits. Most digital will not respond in a timely manner where an analog, set on a low scale, will deflect rapidly. Another alternative is getting a noid light to plug into the injector connector. It has a led light that will flash every time the ecu grounds that circuit to fire the injector.

 

[1995-Disco-I]

Well, I checked it again, and for a fact it is not sending power to the pump and is not getting spark... I pulled one plug today and held the threads to ground and cranked it over a while and got not even a single spark...

So,... I pulled the glove box out and the lower kick panel from around the ECU,... Found no evidence of mice and no chew marks or piss & turds.... So thats a good thing...

Is there a chance that the Crank Sensor could be causing this?... I’m about to the end of what i can do and if i cant get this figured out by this weekend, I’m going to have to buy something i can drive now...

Thanks again guys!

 

[JohnB]

Crank sensor can for sure be a problem. Inside fuse box can also cause low spark but fuel would be OK.

 

[discostew]

It's the crank sensor. The fuel pump will not run if the crank sensor is not working.

We've argued this point on this board before. The service manual is incorrect when it states that the pump has a prime 3 second run when you turn the key on. It's a well known fact among us old timers that have been working for Land Rover since time.

I understand that GEMS trucks do prime for 3 seconds when key is turned to on. Bosch trucks do not. Guys won't test it themselves cause it's such a bitch to unplug the crank sensor. I learned it the hard way just like everyone else who knows this.

 

[discostew]

Even if you don't believe me about the service manual being wrong. Look at it like this. You have no spark, you have no fuel pressure. Fix your spark problem first before you address your fuel pump issue. We all know if you have no spark you need a crank sensor. Then if your fuel pump works after the crank sensor buy your wife a night out with the money you save on a fuel pump. She was nice enough to come outside and put her ear down by the damn filler neck. No way my wife would do that.

 

[the deputy]

Seems weird that it starts on ether, but has no spark. Also, like I said before...I've never seen a vehicle before that a bad crank sensor eliminates spark...but then again...this is a Land Rover...lol. Wish I was at work today (discovery is there), I'd unplug the crank sensor and see if spark was good. But, I'm off work today. Could unplug my wife's 03...but she's heading to work in a few.

Anyhow...

Was your battery completely dead...before this whole ordeal started? Wondering if it is some sort of immobilizer/anti-thief device has been activated? Are all terminals clean and tight on battery? Seems like we are missing something obvious, like a fuse, loose connection or such.

I guess you could throw a crank sensor at it...but if it isn't that...good luck, with your new car purchase.

Brian.