D2 plugged water jacket?

BornIntoIt · Sep 17, 2016

I have an 04 D2 with just over 166,000kms on it. I bought it in 2012 with 100,000kms. The vehicle sat for 6 years before I got it. I think the prior owner got rid of it due to the head gasket leaking coolant down the back of the block. It’s gone through a jug of coolant a year since I bought it but never ran hot. Replaced the water pump in April, 2016, as the bearing was starting to wobble. Finally replaced the head gaskets at the end of July. Two days after I did the head gasket I loaded up my wife and kids, packed the Sankey trailer to the brim and went to the cottage for 2 weeks 160 kms away. During those 2 weeks I noticed it was running hotter at lower speeds. I didn’t drive it much. The day before we left I took it to the dump. As I was throwing the trash into the bins I noticed coolant pissing out. Shut the truck off and opened the hood. The cap had popped. I checked the bleed screw and it had an all-mighty burp of air. I filled it up and it ran fine but I ordered a new cap anyway. When we were just about home the temp guage rose again to just under three quarters. I decided to park it and figure this out. It was running hot at idle so I checked the AC condenser fan fuse and it was blown. The motor was seized so I replaced it. Took it for a spin, needle rose to just shy of ¾ on the temp guage again. Returned to the garage, opened the hood and there was a pinhole in the expansion tank. Removed it, JB welded it and took it for a spin. The repair held but the temp rose again. Ordered a new expansion tank. Checked the viscous coupling on the fan. It’s integral and cannot be removed from the fan so I replaced it with a D1 fan and a new viscous coupling. Sounded more like a C-130 at take-off so I thought I had it. Took it for a spin and the expansion tank blew. New tank arrived and I go for a run. Temp rises again. Return to the garage to discover coolant pissing out around the temp sensor. Faulty temp sensor? Order a scanguage and replace the sensor with an FAE. (Which I literally just heard are an unreliable make.) Still runs hot. Thermostat? Replace thermostat with a 180F one. One of the 4 mixing holes in the old thermostat was plugged with a piece of black rubbery crap. Could that be it? Nope. Hook up scanguage when it arrives. Let it idle. The ac condenser fan kicks in at 209F according to the scanguage, with the AC off as it should. At idle the truck will eventually hit 230 – 234F. Air bubble in the rad? Clogged rad? Ran Prestone rad flush as per the instructions. Bled each time per the RAVE. Felt the rad. Once the thermostat opens at 180, a palm sized area of the rad near the upper hose gets warm. But by 210F it’s pretty much the same. Clogged rad due to sitting for 6 years and the Prestone buggering it up? Remove rad, flush and treat with CLR. Seems fine. Re-install and it and again runs hot, still no flow through the rad. Then the rad fails and leaks around the screw which holds the lower cowel on. Crappy plastic tanks. Order a new rad which I replaced last night and the same damn thing…230-234 on the scanguage. And now i know there is a flow issue. Blocked hose? Ripped all the hoses out tonight and none are blocked. Sorry for the long post. Trying to give as much info as I can recall. There is no waterfall sound behind the dash. I can see coolant firing up into the expansion tank so I think the pump is fine. Oh, the air vent which runs from the rad to the throat of the expansion tank cap constantly pisses out coolant. But the system is not over pressurizing. Boiled the thermostat. Works fine. I’m 46 and grew up wrenching on Land Rovers. 12 of ‘em in the family including a 101 and 24v lightweight. My dad’s a retired engineer and all my life we’ve rebuilt/worked on Land rovers and Range Rovers together. Done a number of head gaskets. Never seen anything like this. Could the block be air locked? Could a water jacket be plugged? At this point I’m tempted to tackle the two coolant drain plugs on the block and stuff my compressor into it. I may not post much but I read a LOT and if there’s anyone out there who can figure this out, I’m sure they’re here somewhere. I’m hoping I won’t have to tear the motor apart again, but it’s looking like I may have to. I use a 50/50 Dexcool and distilled water. Fanbelt is on the right way. Can’t think of anything else. Thx in advance.
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discostew · Sep 17, 2016

It never ran hot till you replaced the head gaskets? I would start going over what you did. The gaskets have the letters T O P on one side of them. That does not stand for towards oil pan.

Sure you got it to bleed all the air out of it? I like to leave the cap off the reservoir till I have a steady stream coming out of the bleed hole near the top of the reservoir. You sure you have the belt routed correctly? If it never ran hot before and was just leaking out the rear of the engine, I have to believe something you did or didn't do.

BornIntoIt · Sep 17, 2016

Belt's ok, gaskets were installed correctly. Tried every damn way to get air out of the system. Ran with cap off, jacked up, etc etc. Every time i refill it, I remove the upper rad hose and fill the rad first, then remove the bleed screw and fill the coolant reservoir until it pours steadily from bleed screw. I'm wondering if the block can get air locked? Tomorrow i plan to remove the bolt on the water pump that goes into the water jacket. I can see what comes out. air/liquid/gunk? Would it be safe to stick my compressor to it and blow out the water jackets?

discostew · Sep 17, 2016

How about just removing the reservoir cap and making sure you have a steady stream coming out of the area near the cap and going down at a 45 degree angle into the reservoir. That seems easier to me.

SMLE · Sep 17, 2016

Crack behind one of the cylinder sleeves causing the coolant system to over pressurize and subsequently overheat?

That's what I finally discovered after replacing every coolant system related part on the Disco...

Good news is that now I have a rock solid cooling system after replacing the engine.

Considering you just did the head gasket, probably not a cracked block, but maybe some part of the new gasket install is allowing engine compression to pressurize your cooling system.

BornIntoIt · Sep 18, 2016

I have a RRC with cracked block/slipped liner. At idle it will pressurize and pop the cap in no time. This one doesn't. I can't see any signs of pressurization. I still think it's a flow issue. A plugged water jacket? But man that would have to be a big plug as the jackets aren't that small. Or an air-locked block? I don't know. Maybe I dropped something when i did the head gaskets. Does anyone know if putting my compressor to the jackets would harm anything? i can't see that it would and I'd have more info about what's going on.

discostew · Sep 18, 2016

I haven't seen a CUX block fail the way you say yours did. I guess it could happen but that problem seems to only happen on the Bosch blocks. Do you have that stream of coolant I asked you about? If not then You could have some extra RTV sealer or something blocking that passage. But that's pretty easy to check. Just run it with the cap off and see if you have that steady stream of coolant going into the reservoir. If you do, its most likely got all the air out of it. But you seem a bit resistant to checking the easy stuff first.

BornIntoIt · Sep 18, 2016

There is a steady stream of coolant to the throat of the cap. I replaced that air vent line with 5-16 brake line as the old plastic crap broke. I think there must be some blockage inside..probably rtv or, and I hate to admit it, I dropped something. All the hoses are clear and I'm about to blast some air into the jackets.

BornIntoIt · Sep 18, 2016

All the coolant lines and water jackets are clear and there doesn't seem to be a blockage. I removed and inspected the water pump and then re-installed everything. Topped it up with distilled water and ran it with the cap off and a plastic bag tied air tight around the threads. I watched the temp rise to 225F on the scanguage and the bag did not inflate at all. However, as I reached over to shut the truck off, the water boiled. Around here water boils at 212F. If the new temp sensor is buggered it would account for everything. I bought an FAE 33155 temp sensor, which is the same as the BMW 1433076. It wasn't until after i installed it did I read on some SAAB and Subaru forums about new FAE's being out by as much as 40F. I'll search around and get a new one and inspect the wires going to it. That has to be it or i'll lose my mind and my wife will make me sleep in the garage. :banghead:

discostew · Sep 18, 2016

BornIntoIt said:
All the coolant lines and water jackets are clear and there doesn't seem to be a blockage. I removed and inspected the water pump and then re-installed everything. Topped it up with distilled water and ran it with the cap off and a plastic bag tied air tight around the threads. I watched the temp rise to 225F on the scanguage and the bag did not inflate at all. However, as I reached over to shut the truck off, the water boiled. Around here water boils at 212F. If the new temp sensor is buggered it would account for everything. I bought an FAE 33155 temp sensor, which is the same as the BMW 1433076. It wasn't until after i installed it did I read on some SAAB and Subaru forums about new FAE's being out by as much as 40F. I'll search around and get a new one and inspect the wires going to it. That has to be it or i'll lose my mind and my wife will make me sleep in the garage. :banghead:

Why would the temp sensor account for anything? It's just along for the ride, your boiling over. Tell me how you torqued the heads. I think you have something going on with a head gasket. What head gasket set did you use? Did you install new bolts?

BornIntoIt · Sep 19, 2016

The signs of a blown gasket, warped head or a cracked block as far as I know are: pressurization, disappearing coolant, white smoke, misfire. Since I have none of these I doubt it's the Atlantic British head gasket set with new bolts which were torqued 90 + 90. Of course it's going to boil over running only distilled water with the cap off. SO if the temp sensor is wrong/malfunctioning, it's telling me it's, let's say 204 and i'm wondering why i have no flow through the rad, it's because the coolant temp is in reality much lower and the thermostat hasn't opened yet. Furthermore, according to the RAVE engine mgmt section, (pages 18.2.18 to 18.2.22) note that if the ECT (engine coolant sensor) malfunctions, among other things, it will cause the temp guage to run excessively hot.

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number9 · Sep 19, 2016

SO if the temp sensor is wrong/malfunctioning,

That's easy to check with an IR thermometer pointing at sensor/manifold.
......

discostew · Sep 19, 2016

BornIntoIt said:
The signs of a blown gasket, warped head or a cracked block as far as I know are: pressurization, disappearing coolant, white smoke, misfire. Since I have none of these I doubt it's the Atlantic British head gasket set with new bolts which were torqued 90 + 90. Of course it's going to boil over running only distilled water with the cap off. SO if the temp sensor is wrong/malfunctioning, it's telling me it's, let's say 204 and i'm wondering why i have no flow through the rad, it's because the coolant temp is in reality much lower and the thermostat hasn't opened yet. Furthermore, according to the RAVE engine mgmt section, (pages 18.2.18 to 18.2.22) note that if the ECT (engine coolant sensor) malfunctions, among other things, it will cause the temp guage to run excessively hot.

The temp guage to run excessively hot. But does it say that if the temp guage is incorrect it will make water boil cause the car THINKS its hot? I'm not following your logic.

BornIntoIt · Sep 19, 2016

Oh I am painfully fully aware you are not following the logic Stew. Thanks for your input.

Maybe it's time for a good IR thermometer. My old meat thermometer wouldn't read the temp at the base of the coolant temp sensor due to the wind howling through there. With the scan gauge reading 220f , I stuck my thermometer into the expansion tank as I've been testing it cap off. The expansion tank coolant was about 30 degrees lower. I don't know what the temperature drop should be between the temp sensor and the tank however. Any thoughts on that temp drop anyone? With the cost of a new IR thermometer around $100 I'll source a new sensor and see what happens.

helievacpilot · Sep 19, 2016

BornIntoIt said:
Oh I am painfully fully aware you are not following the logic Stew.

Not speaking for Stew here, but.....:flipoff2:

squirt · Sep 19, 2016

BornIntoIt said:
The signs of a blown gasket, warped head or a cracked block as far as I know are: pressurization, disappearing coolant, white smoke, misfire. Since I have none of these I doubt it's the Atlantic British head gasket set with new bolts which were torqued 90 + 90.

...

Oh I am painfully fully aware you are not following the logic Stew. Thanks for your input.

Way to make an ass of yourself within your first dozen posts.

Reading through the ridiculous text dump that is your original post, you seem to have repeatedly replaced components after they burst or leaked pressure. That seems to be a clue that you may have an overpressure issue that you're just chasing around. (temp semsor, overflow tank, radiator...) Have you even checked the coolant for combustion gases?

I'm not sure whether you're looking for actual advice, or just for someone to say that your stupid idea about a clogged coolant jacket is reasonable.

I guess I'll leave you with this: IR thermometers don't cost $100. Buy one from Amazon for $12. https://www.amazon.com/Masione-Temp...qid=1474312826&sr=8-6&keywords=ir+thermometer

And then shove it in your "plugged water jacket".

rovercanus · Sep 19, 2016

squirt said:
Way to make an ass of yourself within your first dozen posts.

Forgive him father, for he is Canadian.

KyleT · Sep 19, 2016

Radiator?

How hard/stiff are the coolant hoses when it's running?

BornIntoIt · Sep 20, 2016

Yes I am Canadian and like all true Canadians I apologize - for seeming like an ass. I was a polite Canadian for as long as possible. But, when I originally read, “The gaskets have the letters T O P on one side of them. That does not stand for towards oil pan.” I suppose I got a little pissed off.
Doesn’t seem dickish to you all, huh? No?
How many of you were driving around in a prototype 101 in 1976? Raise your hand if you’ve had your smiling face as a full cover on LRO Magazine. Just because I have not asked for help here does not mean I’m a muppet. Did you consider, before insulting my intelligence, Discostew, you don’t f’ing know me.
In my original post I said, “… the air vent which runs from the rad to the throat of the expansion tank cap constantly pisses out coolant”
discoStew: “But that's pretty easy to check. Just run it with the cap off and see if you have that steady stream of coolant going into the reservoir. If you do, its most likely got all the air out of it. But you seem a bit resistant to checking the easy stuff first.”
No. I’m not resistant, you’re not reading.
Text dump, lol. I like that. Squirt, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve read to post as much info as possible. So I did. Being a writer in a previous life probably doesn’t help either. Tell ya what slick, this one’s gonna be long. Have a wee nap, come back to it tomorrow. The internet is forever.
“I'm not sure whether you're looking for actual advice, or just for someone to say that your stupid idea about a clogged coolant jacket is reasonable.” Of course it’s a stupid idea. I’m at my wits end and grasping at straws.
As far as your advice, Squirt, about chasing pressure around the system, have you considered this; (if you’re new to this, go back and read my OP) The viscous fan began to fail since it had been carrying all the load because the condenser fan was not helping at all and hadn`t for a long time. With the A/C on full blast things were getting hot. When I stopped, heat soak took over, and coupled with an aging tank cap it boiled over. The over pressures eventually caused a pinhole leak then a crack in the tank. (This is also a used expansion tank, but you knew that right Squirt.) The rad failed because I removed and then re-installed the ridiculously large screw which retains the lower cowel. A common fail point on older plastic rads.
So Squirt, I’m looking for advice, yes. But I have repeatedly said i do not believe this is due to the head gasket and no one is listening. If I zip-tie/rubber band a zip-lock baggie over the fill spout on the expansion tank with the cap off and run it, the bag doesn’t inflate. I can rev the crap out of it and that bag, other than getting steamy, doesn’t inflate. Doesn’t this tell me there is no exhaust gas in the coolant? If the head gasket was bad, or I did a bad job, that bag would fill up. I’ve heard chemical tests for exhaust in coolant are only good 90% of the time. I believe my method is foolproof. Is It not? After eliminating all other options i will submit and re-do the head.

Discostew: “The temp guage to run excessively hot. But does it say that if the temp guage is incorrect it will make water boil cause the car THINKS its hot?”
If the temperature guage is incorrect, the vehicle is not overheating at all and I’m losing my mind over nothing. Until I figure this out I’ve been testing with distilled water. What struck me, was the temp guage saying the coolant (distilled water) was at 225F. Where I am, water boils at 212F. .Thus my logical concern over the temp sensor being 13 degrees out. Catch my drift?

Also, as a Canadian I don’t enjoy the free shipping Americans get. I don’t know what NAFTA is. The cheapest IR thermometer I can get is $70 and a good one with a 5 star rating is over a hundred . A $12 Amazon item would probably cost me $70 anyway and take a week to get here. The shipping/taxes/duties on my head gasket set from AB alone were $120.

“…then shove it in your "plugged water jacket" Guess what slick? Nothing foreign in there. But as a fellow Disco owner concerned with your welfare, I suggest you get yours cleaned pronto. You seem right bunged up.

So,( Squirt!!!!, you still with me squirt? Sorry, reeding id hard.)

Back to the issue:
Tonight I replaced the temp sensor with a new BMW 1433076, it was $70. There are slight differences in the characteristics of the two temp sensors in this model. The one on the lower rad and the one on the manifold. The one on the manifold talks directly to the ECU which controls the whole orchestra and as an aside sends a signal to the dash gauge. Note: the lower rad has a temperature “sender’, the manifold is a “sensor”. Different voltage/resistance characteristics.
So, I installed the new sensor. While replacing the alternator I was tightening the nut on the regulator when it snapped. I over-torqued it. I was told I’m “demon possessed” and I should go to church. Took it to the best alternator/starter shop in the world less than a km from my house and Mike at Allen’s Auto Electric in Oshawa gave me a new regulator with new brushes for $20.
With the new sensor installed , distilled water, and an open rad cap there was a definite change. The temp on the scanguage rose much slower and the temp at start was lower. It stopped around 188-190 and stayed there for 10 mins. I drained it, (I swear I could see it’s muffler wagging.) Topped it with 50/50 and went for a run. At 80 kph it was sitting at 225-229. 77F outside. WTF! Called my dad. He’s in his mid-seventies now and has been advising/helping me with Land Rovers my whole life. He’s done more head gaskets than I can recall. In this neck of the woods, if you have a Land Rover related issue, you call him, and a good many do.
He thinks cats. These cats are original. …”at idle, the exhaust gas flow is low enough that the back pressure is minimal. But at higher revs and greater gas flow the back pressure rises and the engine over heats,” he said.
So next I check the cats. Anyone know of an overheating D2 due to clogged or partially clogged cats? Wouldn’t that throw a code? But I’ve been connecting and disconnecting the battery and I doubt the ecu has had time to cycle. Any thought?

And the saga continues…..

For your consideration;
There are people on this forum who’s knowledge is unsurpassed. I feel lucky to be able to turn to Discoweb in times of need. Luckily, I am privy to more people, more human years of Land Rover knowledge than half this forum combined so it isn’t often. When you see a post from someone who hasn’t posted before, don’t automatically assume he/she is an asshole and immediately start communication by insulting their intelligence. Be polite. Be respectful and you will receive the same. Thanks for the input so far.

Squirt, Stew, flippin’ me the bird guy, here endeth the lesson.

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ERover82 · Sep 20, 2016

Does Kenneth have a retarded cousin?

D2 plugged water jacket?

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