Detroit with VC
- Thread starter ccollins
- Start date
Scott the B/W is definitly coming out before URE. I think I've milked out the last drop out of it and it's time to go.
MUSKYMAN said:
Absolutely correct! Chad I don't know if you were with us going up the "center" trail at Caney when Brandon ahead of me was going up a steep obstacle and was getting stuck. It was late after a long day of wheeling and we had come down the highway off of Rough Butt back to the center trail so we were all unlocked. Brandon forgot to lock the CDL and his back wheels (with DL) were not even moving on that obstacle/climb. We yelled at him to check and he locked the CDL and like nothing the back tires bit and he rolled right up and over like nothing. Musky just reminded me of that and that reminded me of a real world case of it right in front of me on the trail.
Cheers,
Mike
LOL
I believe Jack is referring to me when he talks about the capabilities of BW TC with Detroit rear and open front. Both he and I learned from my experience on the Dusy Ershim trail and since.
I wheeled for years (since '92)with BW and open front/rear and did pretty well mastering my left-footed braking technique as well as using proper momentum and carefully picking my line.
I recall wheeling with Jack and Aaron in Death Valley with my open-diffed RRC and having no probs getting over an obstacle that Jack would have difficulty with simply because of my choice of line and throttle/brake control.
However, before Dusy I added a Detroit and GBR/MD 24 spline axles to the rear. I was quite frustrated my first day on the trail on Dusy as I became the winch queen. I think I winched 4+ times before Thompson Hill.
The Detroit was obvious at times when I had traction in the rear feeling the "push" of the locker. However, there were also times (like when popping the front tires over an obstacle) that I had plenty of rear traction yet I wasn't moving.
I finally figured out that when the front axle had NO traction yet the rear HAD traction I was not going to move. I could stand on the throttle and watch the rear tires take a bite but I was not moving and the front was spinning. This did not happen to all the others since they had LT230's. They would crawl right through.
What was happening was power was going to the rear tires but the VC was allowing all excess power to the front where there was no traction and thus no movement.
Adding a locker to the rear of an RRC and leaving the BW will leave you without the main benefits of the locker in many situations.
I believe Jack is referring to me when he talks about the capabilities of BW TC with Detroit rear and open front. Both he and I learned from my experience on the Dusy Ershim trail and since.
I wheeled for years (since '92)with BW and open front/rear and did pretty well mastering my left-footed braking technique as well as using proper momentum and carefully picking my line.
I recall wheeling with Jack and Aaron in Death Valley with my open-diffed RRC and having no probs getting over an obstacle that Jack would have difficulty with simply because of my choice of line and throttle/brake control.
However, before Dusy I added a Detroit and GBR/MD 24 spline axles to the rear. I was quite frustrated my first day on the trail on Dusy as I became the winch queen. I think I winched 4+ times before Thompson Hill.
The Detroit was obvious at times when I had traction in the rear feeling the "push" of the locker. However, there were also times (like when popping the front tires over an obstacle) that I had plenty of rear traction yet I wasn't moving.
I finally figured out that when the front axle had NO traction yet the rear HAD traction I was not going to move. I could stand on the throttle and watch the rear tires take a bite but I was not moving and the front was spinning. This did not happen to all the others since they had LT230's. They would crawl right through.
What was happening was power was going to the rear tires but the VC was allowing all excess power to the front where there was no traction and thus no movement.
Adding a locker to the rear of an RRC and leaving the BW will leave you without the main benefits of the locker in many situations.
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D
D Chapman
Guest
az_max said:
That's a no-brainer. You should replace the T-case first.
The t-case is a weak link. Once it does blow, and it will, the VC runs a 50/50 chance of breaking open or closed. So, basically, you run the risk of losing a t-case on the trail.
That's not to say the LT-230 never breaks. It does. But the chances are slim in comparison.
The only good thing to come out of the BW t-case is the one-piece cross shaft.
ccollins said:
I would start by installing LSD front/Rear... if the VC works it will be a great addition to the truck for years, again until the VC craps out... it will be inexpensive too... it will be softer on your half shafts too...
I know LT230 change should be first but it is a pain in the A$$, I have procrastinated this instal for years already... I guess I will be doing it sooner or later...
conclusion, do what you feel, if you make a mistake learn from it... it is a hobby not a career.. unless it is..
my $0.00002
Simon.
Simon
The LT230 swap is actually pretty cheap to do because of all the inexpensive LT230's around.
total cost should be under $500
doing 2 LSD's is going to cost you min of $700 no matter how you look at it.
The LT230 swap is actually pretty cheap to do because of all the inexpensive LT230's around.
total cost should be under $500
doing 2 LSD's is going to cost you min of $700 no matter how you look at it.
I'm running TT with longfields up front, BW and DT with rovertracks rear axles. I'm going to do a LT swap in the next week or two. Not because it blew but because I'm changing my tranny and figure, what the hell... Why I'm in there.
I personally can't say that it does/ doesn't work. I've wheeled this truck ONCE with this setup and it actually worked quite well. While my truck was running
That's not to say that it won't blow on my next trip.
The part of my truck that didn't work was the fuel pump
I personally can't say that it does/ doesn't work. I've wheeled this truck ONCE with this setup and it actually worked quite well. While my truck was running
That's not to say that it won't blow on my next trip.The part of my truck that didn't work was the fuel pump
I did my LT swap because my BW died. I would admit that it seems harder to the LT swap than lockers but from what people are saying here if you do the lockers first you may have no choice on the T-Case down the road.
I ran a BW with ARBs and it worked, but I now have the LT and I do believe it works better. Im not buying that a open diffed LT will outwheel a locked BW, thats bullshit unless you VC is toast. That being said I agree that the BW is a weak link. MY VC went once and my Chain was hitting the case when I tossed it. Gordo
I am collecting parts right now to swap a LT230 into a 95 RRC...I just dont see the reason to try and run a BW when they all are destined to VC failure. Plus since this truck will be doing ski car duty I have to say the CDL is the ticket.
MUSKYMAN said:
Musky, the price for the LT is cheap that is true but, the amount of work it takes (at least for me) is way more than the LSDs... I did 2 Disco I LT-230 installs and I don't want to do them again.. LOL... and for what it looks like, this kid is going to have this done somewhere and he is going to get shafted for that install.
anyway, people disrespect those LSD's, they are fine for most of the stuff, remember PK? that mofo went everywhere with LSD's and stock half shafts.. and when he couldn't he winched the rest of the way... LOL
later,
Simon
D
D Chapman
Guest
Why is a LT-230 swap so hard? It's like a total of 6-bolts, 2 mounts, some linkage and wiring harness....a cross member, y-pipe and the drive shafts. It's hardly a hard or timley job. With two people, it's a half day swap.
MUSKYMAN said:
Well put Thom. Its not the first one Ive seen a chain hitting the case on either. I agree its a pretty easy swap too.