How much stuff do you have in the back? The coil spring database shows that rear spring at 200 lbf/in and estimated at 330 lbf/in. Your experience suggests the spring is much softer than estimated.
Discovery 1 - Help me build a no/minimal lift OEM+ spring/shock upgrade
- Thread starter _ExpeditionMan
- Start date
I run OME light duty springs. Expedition Exchange sells them but with a warning about heavy loading of the vehicle. I don’t run a winch and don’t have 300 lbs of bumper at each end of the truck.
clothes, tent. cooking stuff.
box of tools and spares about 100 lbs. Full Fridge probably another 100
60 lbs of water
maybe 30 lbs of gas
total was around 5900 that trip
less stuff than I had in this pic with OMEs, and they held it much better
I was in a similar situation in choosing a new suspension. I wanted to stay close to stock while gaining improved load carrying and handling.
My solution was OME 781 springs rear, which are an intermediate medium/heavy duty model. OME medium duty would have been undersprung in the rear. Fronts are OME 76x (1? 4?) medium duty. Bilstein shocks all around. So MD front, MD-HD rear, and shocks that are more comfortable when the vehicle is empty.
It resulted in a bit of lift, which I was not going for, but it didn't screw anything up (vibrations, etc.) and the handling is excellent (for a 25-year old Disco). Rear is lifted a tiny bit more since I added rubber isolation rings. I put about 1,000 pounds of people and gear in it for a 10-day overlanding trip in Joshua Tree & Anza-Borrego parks, performance was exactly what I wanted.
Tires are 245/70/16 Nokian AT.
This has been an effective solution, or at least I have achieved the end result I desired.
My solution was OME 781 springs rear, which are an intermediate medium/heavy duty model. OME medium duty would have been undersprung in the rear. Fronts are OME 76x (1? 4?) medium duty. Bilstein shocks all around. So MD front, MD-HD rear, and shocks that are more comfortable when the vehicle is empty.
It resulted in a bit of lift, which I was not going for, but it didn't screw anything up (vibrations, etc.) and the handling is excellent (for a 25-year old Disco). Rear is lifted a tiny bit more since I added rubber isolation rings. I put about 1,000 pounds of people and gear in it for a 10-day overlanding trip in Joshua Tree & Anza-Borrego parks, performance was exactly what I wanted.
Tires are 245/70/16 Nokian AT.
This has been an effective solution, or at least I have achieved the end result I desired.
You are definitely near my anticipated max laden weight, with my bumper/winch and sliders I am probably +20% or so. Would you be willing to measure the unladen height from ground to center wheel well for the front and rear. I'd like to get a better idea of what kind of lift to expect.
Which part number bilsteins did you use for the front and rear?
Unfortunately I'd collapse the hell out of those. I want the increased spring rate without the additional free coil height. Thanks for the note though
No problem, but it will have to be next week since I'm in a different state for the holidays. I think the Bilsteins are 5100.
OME MD springs and shocks 20+ years ago. Running 215/85/R16 pizza cutters.
Same springs and my second set of shocks. Photo taken this past week. Running mellower tires lately.
Same springs and my second set of shocks. Photo taken this past week. Running mellower tires lately.
Understood, and thank you that will be very helpful. Here's a snap shot of shock models taken from the database @outono compiled.
Attachments
Helped compile! Red90 deserves much of the credit for getting tons the data published a long time ago. I just took the old data, brought in new stuff, and put it in a more friendly Google Doc that continues to be updated.
Check out this article for a discussion on tapered wire vs progressive. They even mention an "Australian spring manufacturer" building tapered wire springs.
"The basic idea behind the tapered-wire progressive spring is not new. It
aims to create a more compliant ride in the initial part of the stroke,
and a more linear progression in spring rate as the shock travels into its
stroke. The Teknik guys claim the tapered-wire progressive springs can
more accurately and predictably recreate the sort of mechanical
progression offered by a rising-rate linkage. This means better traction
out of corners and more stability through braking bumps"
As for progressive springs in general...
“[Progressive] springs that were supposed to be the same rate, clearly weren’t. It
turned out that pitches on pretty much all the major brands’ springs
weren’t very consistent. Making a progressive spring by altering pitch
opens up a can of worms in the quality control department."
So will tapered wire progressive really make a huge difference for Discos? Probably not as much as it could for other types of vehicles, but to me they ride great and perform well off-road.
For shocks, I went with Koni RAIDs ( 90 5374SP1 , 90 5401). They are adjustable and some of the Defender guys swear by them.
If you ever find yourself in SoCal, swing by and drive the truck.
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Reading up on the Koni's.. did you end up using drop brackets due to the extra length?
And looks like I perfectly understand tapered progressive, progressive, and linear springs. No need to read the article (just kidding). That graph in the document you shared is exactly what I expected. I'm very interested in tapered progressive for the rear
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I haven't read all the replies just so I don't fall into one or another rut.
Consider this (and D2 guys please correct me if I am wrong): D2 spring seats are almost 1" deeper than D1, which was a source of "Cheap Bastard" lift for D2 owners. For you, it can be a total boon - order OME 2764 (rear)/2777 (front) medium-duty springs and D2 spring seats, and you'll have more travel than stock with only about 1" of lift.
Shocks - Bilstein stock replacements will do fine, with a caveat: for the rear, buy a set of OME rear upper stud shock mounts (FK64), and you can use the same shocks front and rear.
All of this can be found on ExpeditionExchange.com if you want to "keep money in the family," or plenty of other places.
Consider this (and D2 guys please correct me if I am wrong): D2 spring seats are almost 1" deeper than D1, which was a source of "Cheap Bastard" lift for D2 owners. For you, it can be a total boon - order OME 2764 (rear)/2777 (front) medium-duty springs and D2 spring seats, and you'll have more travel than stock with only about 1" of lift.
Shocks - Bilstein stock replacements will do fine, with a caveat: for the rear, buy a set of OME rear upper stud shock mounts (FK64), and you can use the same shocks front and rear.
All of this can be found on ExpeditionExchange.com if you want to "keep money in the family," or plenty of other places.
Another option, if you can find them, is the British police springs. I put those on my first RRC about 17 years ago and they were great. I forget the part number, I bought them from a vendor who has long since gone out of business. I wouldn't be surprised if one of the UK retailers still carries these. Negligible height increase with noteworthy load increase, but not so much that the ride was bouncy when empty. Hopefully someone else will remember what I'm talking about and can offer more detail.
EDIT:
Here's more info from a different forum.
And here's a link to the part at LRDirect (UK). You could buy a full set for a little more than the price of one OME spring.
Pair this spring setup with Peter's recommendation to install D2 seats and you'd be darn close to stock.
EDIT:
Here's more info from a different forum.
And here's a link to the part at LRDirect (UK). You could buy a full set for a little more than the price of one OME spring.
Pair this spring setup with Peter's recommendation to install D2 seats and you'd be darn close to stock.
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Concentrating on the rear where most of your weight will reside, you're looking for a relatively short spring with a high spring rate to achieve additional payload capacity while retaining near-stock ride height. With that in mind I dug out my old coil spring calculations spreadsheet here:
docs.google.com
Years ago I took a sampling of Red90's data and other sources, and added many calculations for exploring the data in terms of ride height vs payload.
From the data, TF052 looks closest to what you want. If ANR3477 is your stock rear, then at 0lbs payload it should only be ~0.63" taller. At 400lbs additional payload it should be ~0.96 taller than ANR3477 at the same payload.
I don't really have time to dig into it more, and I never got around to figuring out a way to approximate progressive spring lengths vs payload, but thinking along these lines may help.
Land Rover Spring Data
Sheet1 Part,Base Rate (lb/in),Compressed Rate (lb/in),Length (mm) (left),Length (in) (left),L/R Specific,Front Compressed Length,Rear Compressed Length,Lift Over Stock Front,Lift Over Stock Rear,Notes,Constants OME2760,215,390,15.35,Y,11.26,9.21,1.34,2.09,D1 Front Spring Load (lb),880 TF014 OME2761
Years ago I took a sampling of Red90's data and other sources, and added many calculations for exploring the data in terms of ride height vs payload.
From the data, TF052 looks closest to what you want. If ANR3477 is your stock rear, then at 0lbs payload it should only be ~0.63" taller. At 400lbs additional payload it should be ~0.96 taller than ANR3477 at the same payload.
I don't really have time to dig into it more, and I never got around to figuring out a way to approximate progressive spring lengths vs payload, but thinking along these lines may help.
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