Durable Trans, Oil, and PS Lines

[ERover82]

We all know common weak points with our Discos are the various fluid lines.

From PT Schram: "Eventually, Land Rover oil and transmission fluid cooler lines begin to seep at the crimped fitting where the rubber hose is attached to the steel hard-line.In extreme cases, the leakage from these hoses or the complete and catastrophic failure of these lines has been known to result in total loss of the vehicle due to fire."

From Trailhead: "Fires like this are unfortunately becoming more and more likely to happen to Rover Owners, and the cause is old cracked and dry rotted engine oil cooler lines. The bright side is that Trailhead 4x4 has your solution, and can help prevent this terrible tragedy from happening."

"Do not settle for rebuilds of your old lines, compression fittings, crimps, hose clamps, ect. THEY WILL NOT HOLD UP!!! The solid tubing used on the original cooler lines is very thin and not suitable for modification or re-use in any way."

We'd all like our Discos to be as bullet proof as possible so here's a few questions:

1. Are there any other products out there? I'd like to improve the PS lines too.
2. Advantage of stainless braided vs standard?
3. Is it possible to piece together our own solution for all 3 lines or are the ends too proprietary?
4. Is reusing the solid parts of the lines a good idea or should the lines be done end to end?

 

[p m]

If you can braze a fitting onto a steel pipe, you can do all of it.
I may be off with the numbers, but IIRC you need AN-6 fittings and some #6 stainless-braided hose. Use a discarded set of hoses, keep the ends' fittings and about 6" of steel line that the rubber hose was crimped on. Drill the AN fitting to match the O.D. of the steel line, and braze the fitting to the steel line. Then you can make your own stainless-braided lines to whatever lengths you want, or have a shop do it for you.

If anything, stainless braid will offer much better chafing protection, and quite a bit of heat shielding to the inner hose.

 

[ptschram]

We'd all like our Discos to be as bullet proof as possible so here's a few questions:

1. Are there any other products out there? I'd like to improve the PS lines too.

Yes.Most of my trucks have been converted to JIC fittings and have either stainless or two-wire hydraulic hose. My experience has not shown that the stainless is any better. I had a stainless PAS hose fail and a stainless brake line nearly fail.

2. Advantage of stainless braided vs standard?

None that I see. The only reaosn I have stainless lines on my off-road rig is simply put, BLING!!!

3. Is it possible to piece together our own solution for all 3 lines or are the ends too proprietary?

Sure, go for it. Let me know if you can do it cheaper than I can sell you the parts. FWIW-pricing on my website is no longer valid as I've had some major design changes (continuous improvement!).
The fittings were $10/ea, with the new design,they are $25/ea. $125 for the oil cooler kit.

Eric's setup is nice as it screws right into the front cover in place of the stock fittings. The elegance of my setup is that it reuses the steel lines.

4. Is reusing the solid parts of the lines a good idea or should the lines be done end to end?

I've never had a problem with them and don't see the need.

 

[ptschram]

If anything, stainless braid will offer much better chafing protection, and quite a bit of heat shielding to the inner hose.

This has not been my experience and the stainless conducts heat into the center tubing. This is why I offer the high-temp sleeving as well.

The stainless sheathed hose I buy has a lower temp rating than the two-wire rubber hose.

 

[p m]

Paul, of course steel will conduct heat. But if it is reasonably clean, it will reflect more heat radiated from the exhaust manifolds than an unshielded hose will. You can't argue with that.

 

[ERover82]

Ok thanks for all the input. I'm still trying to wrap my brain around this since I'm not too familiar with hoses and fittings. In the end I'd like to create a sticky worthy guide to improving the trans, engine, and PS lines so everyone can easily mod their Discos for better reliability.

From what I understand so far the kit solutions are:

Trans: PT Schram's Kit
Engine: Trailhead's, PT Schram's
PS: No kits, DIY

What I'd really like to figure out is a DIY parts list for each of the above, preferably end-to-end, replacing the entire line, and striking a balance between durability of the lines and the difficulty and number of special tools required. Then everyone could simply go to one of the many custom automotive plumbing vendors, get the parts, and assemble it with some instructions. I'm not completely sure this is possible, but if it is I'd like to figure it out.

Trans: Are the ends on these a standard type connector? If so, I imagine it'd just be a matter of identifying the correct end fittings and suitable hose, and some instructions for connecting it all together.

Engine: I suspect the ends on these are Rover proprietary and the only way to use standard parts is to re-use the solid line segment as in PT Schram's, or use Trailhead's adapters (below) and use standard DIY components from there. This could be tricky...

PS: Same thoughts as trans..

And as a side note, I'd think the braided lines would be harder to clean since gunk would sink into and cling on the mesh, whereas a smooth rubber lines just wipes clean.

 

[ptschram]

Paul, of course steel will conduct heat. But if it is reasonably clean, it will reflect more heat radiated from the exhaust manifolds than an unshielded hose will. You can't argue with that.

Sure I will. A rubber hose 1/4" thick is gonna be more resistant to heat ingress than a tiny thin covering of stainless steel that conducts. One is an insulator and the other a conductor.

I've had both PAS and brake lines wear right through the stainless while the rubber hose is still going strong, in identical applications.

The fittings on the engine aren't necessarily proprietary, they are just a PITA to fabricate in one's own shop. On early DIs, they are kinda unique though. It's easy enough to either use compression fittings (oh noes, compression fittings!!!) or silver solder JIC fittings to them, but with silver at more than $30/oz, that option is getting expensive quickly.

 

[ERover82]

Russel Performance makes nylon braided lines rated to 350. Might be of interest.

What I mean by proprietary is that this connector can't be purchased as an off the shelf part for building lines AFAIK.

And the more I look at the transmission cooler line ends the more they look Rover only too.

 

[p m]

Sure I will. A rubber hose 1/4" thick is gonna be more resistant to heat ingress than a tiny thin covering of stainless steel that conducts. One is an insulator and the other a conductor.

This is an absolutely meaningless statement.
Not to pick a fight or a product, but if you compare a bare rubber hose with the same hose covered with stainless braid, I doubt you'd come to the same conclusion.

 

[ptschram]

This is an absolutely meaningless statement.
Not to pick a fight or a product, but if you compare a bare rubber hose with the same hose covered with stainless braid, I doubt you'd come to the same conclusion.

It's not the same hose.

The rubber hose is 1/4" thick, the stainless is 0.032" thick, over a hose that's maybe 0.060" thick.

One is an insulator, the other a conductor.

 

[p m]

OK, that's hopeless. I give up.
It's even beside the point that what I mentioned originally had nothing to do with heat insulation and heat conduction.

 

[ptschram]

If anything, stainless braid will offer much better chafing protection, and quite a bit of heat shielding to the inner hose.

Looks like you were referencing insulation right here.

 

[p m]

I sure do.
But I don't care for heat transfer to the fluid inside the hose - only about rubber deteriorating from heat.

 

[robertf]

the braid is to increase it's strength, not for abrasion

the really baller aerospace stuff has an abrasion layer over the braid and sometimes a firesleeve on top of that along with wear pads on the tubes where there is a possibility of rubbing

 

[ptschram]

the braid is to increase it's strength, not for abrasion

the really baller aerospace stuff has an abrasion layer over the braid and sometimes a firesleeve on top of that along with wear pads on the tubes where there is a possibility of rubbing

I offer it with a heat-resistant heat-shrink tubing and a heat-resistant sleeve that goes over that.

 

[RVR OVR]

Bringing this thread back to life to see if anyone has more current options for both oil and transmission lines. Mine are shot and need to be replaced. I contacted ptschram but he said he was out of stock until he finds a new supplier. I can't wait that long, mine is quick leaky and I was not too happy about the fire hazard this causes if what I have read is true.

Anyone know of other options out there other than buying stock crap to break again? Trailhead seems to only have the oil cooler replacements.

Tom

 

[ptschram]

Bringing this thread back to life to see if anyone has more current options for both oil and transmission lines. Mine are shot and need to be replaced. I contacted ptschram but he said he was out of stock until he finds a new supplier. I can't wait that long, mine is quick leaky and I was not too happy about the fire hazard this causes if what I have read is true.

Anyone know of other options out there other than buying stock crap to break again? Trailhead seems to only have the oil cooler replacements.

Tom

I probably suggested pulling the rubber hoses off the steel pipes and using the underlying hose "barb" such that it is to retain the hose and using hydraulic hose and worm-gear hose clamps.

 

[RVR OVR]

I probably suggested pulling the rubber hoses off the steel pipes and using the underlying hose "barb" such that it is to retain the hose and using hydraulic hose and worm-gear hose clamps.

Yeah, just don't want to do tactical fix. Looking to do this fix once with it being -2 degrees outside and the Rover not fitting in my garage, I want something I can hand to my mechanic to cover.

 

[Jagfixer]

Saw IL post , see you are in Oregon, sorry.

 

[RVR OVR]

Jagfixer - I am in IL and I got your other post via email with the items for sale and am interested. The lines are original on a 20 year old truck (1995 Discovery). Will what you have work on a 95? Send me a PM or email for what you want to sell your lines for (pearsth@yahoo.com).

Tom