It seems to me that democrats nowadays do want to penalize the successful and therefore wealthy individuals and companies. You know, just bring them down a notch, remind them that the hoards of average and below average people do not approve of their success. This jealous mentality is painfully obvious (with apg and his chronic need to use the term neo con one of the most amusing examples). What these ignorant masses never seem to understand is that although this socialist mentality will make the rich poorer, it will also make the poor poorer. I think they never grasp this concept because it takes the power of abstract thought and long term planning and attention to truly understand it. These people are too preoccupied with all of the shiny objects and free shit that Santa is giving them to really care.
Election Day 2012
- Thread starter jrose609
- Start date
Blue said:
I think some of them do realize this and see it as the price to pay for the satisfaction of watching someone else suffer.
It's not about making someone suffer, or taking someone down a notch. It's about unrigging the game a little bit. Our economy was a lot stronger when there were more businesses instead of fewer (but bigger) ones. More Wal-Marts aren't going to help us recover, much the opposite.
They'll help me - since it looks like I'll be paying about $8k/year more in taxes, WalMart will be my sole supplier for motor oil.knewsom said:
knewsom said:
I'm not saying it isn't rigged, I'm saying I don't understand how it is. Can you please tell me how every other person doesn't have the same opportunities Sam Walton did ? Or how things were rigged to provide him the business that he now has ?
kzack said:
Knewsom, how is the system rigged and how did it result in the success of businesses such as Walmart? As kzack notes above, hasn't everyone had the same opportunities as Sam Walton? He was smart, he was persistent, hard working, personally accountable, and he built his business to the point where the business can leverage suppliers for fractions of pennies. I'll admit that I am not a fan of the Walmart mentality and their resulting effect of shuttering small businesses. I'm certainly not a fan of their average grotesquely obese sweat-pant clad shoppers but as far as a business model is concerned, Walmart is an unqualified success.
Knewsom,
Watch this whole series and see if anything makes sense.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3N2sNnGwa4&feature=my_liked_videos&list=LLdrprjI_QgrvsKA7pVkpKYw
Watch this whole series and see if anything makes sense.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3N2sNnGwa4&feature=my_liked_videos&list=LLdrprjI_QgrvsKA7pVkpKYw
Knewsom,
It looks like you have become the lighting rod. I commend you for taking the position. However, can your opinion change if you argue too hard?
The question of "how the system is rigged" is far to complex to explore in detail in this thread.
This is a start.
What it all boils down to is concentrated wealth, power, influence, and a walled-garden approach that keeps the powerful in power and allows for the systematic obliteration of any competition whatsoever, even on a small scale. Taking Wal Mart as an example, they'll build a store in a new town, and keep the prices so low that they're operating at a loss for years until any competition in town goes out of business. Once they're gone, they set the prices higher again and keep moving to new towns. This is not made up bs, these are documented business practices. Combined with the practice of leveraging purchasing power to lower buying costs, the effects have been devastating across America and indeed the world. A system that allows this is not a fair market. What Govs Roemer and Johnson talk about in the clip and what they've talked about a lot in general, is the effects of this strategy on politics - the parties have behaved in a similar predatory fashion - crushing any independent opposition with massive concentrated wealth and collusion to exclude them from major media events. Sam Walton didn't so much have "special rights", he was just lucky enough to discover this strategy and apply it to a particular type of store before any major competition beat him to it, and once he'd attained a high level of success, he used his wealth and influence to protect his interests using legislation while simultaneously harming attempts to hamper his strategy or compete with them in any way.
Massive corporations use their power to influence law-makers to gain government contracts, special tax-breaks, profit-protection, exemptions from environmental laws, prevents growth of low-level competitors, all sorts of bullshit. Don't even get me started on the Banks. The privileges extended to them by both parties are enough to make you want to vomit.
If you don't think the system is rigged to favor the powerful, then you're fooling yourself. If you think I've convinced myself I've got all the answers on how to fix it, then I'd love to hear what you think my ideas are, because I've pretty much got jack. The Monopoly game is over folks. We lost.
This is a start.
What it all boils down to is concentrated wealth, power, influence, and a walled-garden approach that keeps the powerful in power and allows for the systematic obliteration of any competition whatsoever, even on a small scale. Taking Wal Mart as an example, they'll build a store in a new town, and keep the prices so low that they're operating at a loss for years until any competition in town goes out of business. Once they're gone, they set the prices higher again and keep moving to new towns. This is not made up bs, these are documented business practices. Combined with the practice of leveraging purchasing power to lower buying costs, the effects have been devastating across America and indeed the world. A system that allows this is not a fair market. What Govs Roemer and Johnson talk about in the clip and what they've talked about a lot in general, is the effects of this strategy on politics - the parties have behaved in a similar predatory fashion - crushing any independent opposition with massive concentrated wealth and collusion to exclude them from major media events. Sam Walton didn't so much have "special rights", he was just lucky enough to discover this strategy and apply it to a particular type of store before any major competition beat him to it, and once he'd attained a high level of success, he used his wealth and influence to protect his interests using legislation while simultaneously harming attempts to hamper his strategy or compete with them in any way.
Massive corporations use their power to influence law-makers to gain government contracts, special tax-breaks, profit-protection, exemptions from environmental laws, prevents growth of low-level competitors, all sorts of bullshit. Don't even get me started on the Banks. The privileges extended to them by both parties are enough to make you want to vomit.
If you don't think the system is rigged to favor the powerful, then you're fooling yourself. If you think I've convinced myself I've got all the answers on how to fix it, then I'd love to hear what you think my ideas are, because I've pretty much got jack. The Monopoly game is over folks. We lost.
Do elections have consequences? If you have been paying attention to the financial markets, you might think so. Wall Street has had two horrible days since President Obama won a second term.
However, stock prices are not the only thing taking a hit. It appears that the job market is also suffering. In the last 48 hours, the following major corporations have announced layoffs in America (links take you to news stories about the layoffs – with details from the companies):
• Energizer -
The St. Louis-based company said Thursday that it expects to shed about 1,500 employees. When finished, the restructuring should lead to $200 million in pretax yearly savings, Energizer said. It aims to have most of its restructuring steps finished by the end of September 2014.
• Westinghouse -
Westinghouse Anniston, the contractor responsible for shutting down Anniston’s chemical weapons incinerator, has reduced its workforce by another 50 employees.
• Research in Motion Limited -
Research in Motion Ltd., the maker of BlackBerry smartphones, laid off about 200 people at its U.S. headquarters in Irving on Wednesday, according to a source close to the company who did not want to be named.
• Lightyear Network Solutions -
More than one dozen employees at a Pikeville company lost their jobs this week. Officials with Lightyear Network Solutions said they are consolidating offices in Louisville and Pikeville to save money.
• Providence Journal -
The Providence Journal Co. laid off 23 full-time workers Wednesday as part of a cost-cutting effort, including 16 members of the Providence Newspaper Guild and 7 non-union employees.
• Hawker Beechcraft -
The company says 240 employees will lose their jobs with the closing of Hawker Beechcraft Services facilities in Little Rock, Ark.; Mesa, Ariz.; and San Antonio, Texas.
• Boeing (30% of their management staff) -
Boeing Co. said Wednesday it plans to employ 30% fewer executives at its Boeing Defense, Space & Security unit by the end of 2012 compared to 2010 levels.
• CVPH Medical Center -
CVPH Medical Center has handed pink slips to 17 employees. The layoffs — nine in management and eight hourly staffers — are part of an effort to “help bolster the hospital’s financial position in 2013 and beyond,” a press release said.
• US Cellular -
The move will result in 980 job cuts at U.S. Cellular, with 640 in the Chicago area, according to a spokeswoman. The cuts are slightly under 12 percent of the approximately 8,400 total employees U.S. Cellular had at the end of the third quarter.
• Momentive Performance Materials -
About 150 workers at Sistersville’s Momentive Performance Materials plant will be temporarily laid off later this month, officials said this week.
• Rocketdyne -
About 100 employees at Pratt & Whitney Rocketdyne, most of whom work in the San Fernando Valley, were laid off Wednesday in response to dwindling government spending on space exploration, the company said. The layoffs were effective immediately, and 75 percent of them came at the facilities on Canoga and De Soto avenues, which employ about 1,100 people. The company has six sites across the Valley.
• Brake Parts -
The leader of an automotive parts plant in Lincoln County has told state officials that there are plans to lay off 75 workers starting in late December…The layoffs are expected to start Dec. 28 and continue in the first quarter of 2013
• Vestas Wind Systems -
Vestas Wind Systems A/S (VWS) is seeking to sell a stake of as much as 20 percent and said it’s reducing headcount by 3,000 to raise the staff cuts by the biggest wind turbine maker to almost a third over two years.
• Husqvarna -
Husqvarna AB (HUSQB), the world’s biggest maker of powered garden tools, plans to cut about 600 jobs in a move that will save 220 million kronor ($33 million) a year by 2014.
• Center for Hospice New York -
The Center for Hospice and Palliative Care plans to temporarily lay off as many as 40 employees next year as it embarks on a major renovation of the inpatient unit at its Cheektowaga campus.
• Bristol-Meyers -
Bristol-Myers Squibb is following up its lackluster third-quarter results with almost 480 layoffs. As Pharmalot reports, the company notified the New Jersey government that it would scale back in Plainsboro, which means the cuts will hit its sales operations.
• OCE North America -
Trumbull printer- and scanning-equipment provider Oce North America, Inc. will lay off 135 workers in three Connecticut communities, including East Hartford, according to its notice with the state Labor Department.
• Darden Restaurants -
The company, which was among those who had received an Obamacare waiver in the past, is looking to limit workers to 28 hours per week. A full time employee that is required to have health insurance (lest the employer pay a fine) works 30 hours per week, as defined by the Obamacare law.
• West Ridge Mine -
In its statement, UtahAmerican Energy blames the Obama administration for instituting policies that will close down “204 American coal-fired power plants by 2014″ and for drastically reducing the market for coal.
• United Blood Services Gulf -
United Blood Services Gulf South region, the non-profit blood service provider for much of south Louisiana and Mississippi, will lay off approximately 10 percent of its workforce. It was a hard decision to make according to Susan Begnaud, Regional Center Director for the Gulf South region.
-www.theblaze.com
However, stock prices are not the only thing taking a hit. It appears that the job market is also suffering. In the last 48 hours, the following major corporations have announced layoffs in America (links take you to news stories about the layoffs – with details from the companies):
• Energizer -
The St. Louis-based company said Thursday that it expects to shed about 1,500 employees. When finished, the restructuring should lead to $200 million in pretax yearly savings, Energizer said. It aims to have most of its restructuring steps finished by the end of September 2014.
• Westinghouse -
Westinghouse Anniston, the contractor responsible for shutting down Anniston’s chemical weapons incinerator, has reduced its workforce by another 50 employees.
• Research in Motion Limited -
Research in Motion Ltd., the maker of BlackBerry smartphones, laid off about 200 people at its U.S. headquarters in Irving on Wednesday, according to a source close to the company who did not want to be named.
• Lightyear Network Solutions -
More than one dozen employees at a Pikeville company lost their jobs this week. Officials with Lightyear Network Solutions said they are consolidating offices in Louisville and Pikeville to save money.
• Providence Journal -
The Providence Journal Co. laid off 23 full-time workers Wednesday as part of a cost-cutting effort, including 16 members of the Providence Newspaper Guild and 7 non-union employees.
• Hawker Beechcraft -
The company says 240 employees will lose their jobs with the closing of Hawker Beechcraft Services facilities in Little Rock, Ark.; Mesa, Ariz.; and San Antonio, Texas.
• Boeing (30% of their management staff) -
Boeing Co. said Wednesday it plans to employ 30% fewer executives at its Boeing Defense, Space & Security unit by the end of 2012 compared to 2010 levels.
• CVPH Medical Center -
CVPH Medical Center has handed pink slips to 17 employees. The layoffs — nine in management and eight hourly staffers — are part of an effort to “help bolster the hospital’s financial position in 2013 and beyond,” a press release said.
• US Cellular -
The move will result in 980 job cuts at U.S. Cellular, with 640 in the Chicago area, according to a spokeswoman. The cuts are slightly under 12 percent of the approximately 8,400 total employees U.S. Cellular had at the end of the third quarter.
• Momentive Performance Materials -
About 150 workers at Sistersville’s Momentive Performance Materials plant will be temporarily laid off later this month, officials said this week.
• Rocketdyne -
About 100 employees at Pratt & Whitney Rocketdyne, most of whom work in the San Fernando Valley, were laid off Wednesday in response to dwindling government spending on space exploration, the company said. The layoffs were effective immediately, and 75 percent of them came at the facilities on Canoga and De Soto avenues, which employ about 1,100 people. The company has six sites across the Valley.
• Brake Parts -
The leader of an automotive parts plant in Lincoln County has told state officials that there are plans to lay off 75 workers starting in late December…The layoffs are expected to start Dec. 28 and continue in the first quarter of 2013
• Vestas Wind Systems -
Vestas Wind Systems A/S (VWS) is seeking to sell a stake of as much as 20 percent and said it’s reducing headcount by 3,000 to raise the staff cuts by the biggest wind turbine maker to almost a third over two years.
• Husqvarna -
Husqvarna AB (HUSQB), the world’s biggest maker of powered garden tools, plans to cut about 600 jobs in a move that will save 220 million kronor ($33 million) a year by 2014.
• Center for Hospice New York -
The Center for Hospice and Palliative Care plans to temporarily lay off as many as 40 employees next year as it embarks on a major renovation of the inpatient unit at its Cheektowaga campus.
• Bristol-Meyers -
Bristol-Myers Squibb is following up its lackluster third-quarter results with almost 480 layoffs. As Pharmalot reports, the company notified the New Jersey government that it would scale back in Plainsboro, which means the cuts will hit its sales operations.
• OCE North America -
Trumbull printer- and scanning-equipment provider Oce North America, Inc. will lay off 135 workers in three Connecticut communities, including East Hartford, according to its notice with the state Labor Department.
• Darden Restaurants -
The company, which was among those who had received an Obamacare waiver in the past, is looking to limit workers to 28 hours per week. A full time employee that is required to have health insurance (lest the employer pay a fine) works 30 hours per week, as defined by the Obamacare law.
• West Ridge Mine -
In its statement, UtahAmerican Energy blames the Obama administration for instituting policies that will close down “204 American coal-fired power plants by 2014″ and for drastically reducing the market for coal.
• United Blood Services Gulf -
United Blood Services Gulf South region, the non-profit blood service provider for much of south Louisiana and Mississippi, will lay off approximately 10 percent of its workforce. It was a hard decision to make according to Susan Begnaud, Regional Center Director for the Gulf South region.
-www.theblaze.com
Kris,
Curious to hear your thoughts on Walmart and SNAP or "foodstamps".
In some stores up to 40% of revenue comes from SNAP. With the given demographics of the typical walmart shopper I'd think that you would have a hard time disagreeing that the majority of walmart shoppers and those receiving SNAP do not have a direct correlation.
Why don't you convince all those that vote along the same party line as you to quit patronizing this evil machine that walmart is? Also convince them not to work there either. That will show big business and these evil corps won't it?
Curious to hear your thoughts on Walmart and SNAP or "foodstamps".
In some stores up to 40% of revenue comes from SNAP. With the given demographics of the typical walmart shopper I'd think that you would have a hard time disagreeing that the majority of walmart shoppers and those receiving SNAP do not have a direct correlation.
Why don't you convince all those that vote along the same party line as you to quit patronizing this evil machine that walmart is? Also convince them not to work there either. That will show big business and these evil corps won't it?
knewsom said:
Regardless of a country's political system, there will always be a small circle of those who hold power, have wealth, etc. It doesn't matter if its a capitalist nation, in which case big companies are in charge so to speak, or a communist country like Russia once was. In the latter case, the military and gov't officials (high ranking ones) controlled the wealth of the nation. So either way shit ain't going to change.
mulisha00 said:
Like I said, it's really too late. In many places WalMart is about all there is to shop at, and sometimes the only place to work for. I don't really know anybody who shops there regularly (possibly with the exception of my Father in Law who is a Republican), and I definitely don't know anyone who shops there. Ask yourself this: why is it we have a system where you can use food stamps at fucking WalMart but not at your local Farmer's Market?
Ballah06 said:
Dimitri, I agree - in either of these circumstances, power is concentrated. But there is not only two ways. There are a lot of other nations out there besides the US and Russia, many of which are doing quite well.
Part of the issue here is that while our Constitution was written to create political balance of power, it didn't take into account corporate personhood and the massive controlling financial interests that go along with megacorps, because that shit just didn't exist. The SPIRIT of cour Constitution is balance of power. I think we need to pick up the torch and carry that spirit forward with legislation to restore the balance in this country.
For me it is as easy as this. <O
</O
2001 Great Economy <O</O
2009 Horrible Economy <O</O
2012….. well it is better. Not great, but it is better. <O</O
<O</O
I think trickle down economics is a bull shit theory and that theory was just rebranded “gotta get the money to the job creators”. I have absolutely zero faith that Republican party is looking out for the middle class anymore. I used to be a republican, but they have gone nutty <O</O
<O</O
I would have voted for Gary Johnson, but since I live in VA I could not stomach the thought of Romney nominating the 4 supreme court judges. <O</O
</O2001 Great Economy <O
</O2009 Horrible Economy <O
</O2012….. well it is better. Not great, but it is better. <O
</O<O
</OI think trickle down economics is a bull shit theory and that theory was just rebranded “gotta get the money to the job creators”. I have absolutely zero faith that Republican party is looking out for the middle class anymore. I used to be a republican, but they have gone nutty <O
</O<O
</OI would have voted for Gary Johnson, but since I live in VA I could not stomach the thought of Romney nominating the 4 supreme court judges. <O
</O
knewsom said:
Kris, that's simple. People on SNAP want the most product for the least amount of money taken from the benefits. I'm sure that there is plenty of places where you can "buy local" using a SNAP card but realistically no one does that.
I respect you for putting up a good fight for your beliefs but fail to ever find anything that logically makes sense the majority of the time.
Kris, this is hypothetical and not an attack on your child but I want to know how you would handle this. As you grow older and your adult child continues to do the wrong thing and just cannot "get it together". Do you continue as a parent to love him unconditionally and bail him out of everything by providing every necessity for him or do you at some point show some tough love? Do you kick him out of the house and cut him off financially?
What honestly do you think is better for his well being? Continue to give him what he needs regardless of his actions or behavior or cut him off and let him figure it out? The longer you provide for him how likely do you think it will be that he will change his behavior?
Don't know about where you are but I've not seen many farmer's markets that are next to Section 8. Also, what does it take for a store to actually take EBT or Foodstamps? Does the local farmer's market sell you cheerios for your toddler? Milk (like regular stuff, I know there's organic free range stuff for $6/gal at some I've seen)? Baby formula? Easy access with regular hours?
You gotta be fucking stupid to think that anyone with food stamps is going to a farmer's market.
The argument is not Wally World versus farmer's market - but more against your mom and pop local business. The business pricepoint to sustain a mom and pop place is simply higher than that of massive corporate buying power and self-labeling manufacturing (Great Value brand). Until the 'system' figures out how to reverse that or (dare I say it) 'regulate' how the large companies spread and force out the smaller markets, then your system is broken.
Ring Ring - Obama phone calling: STOP TREATING THE SYMPTOMS!
You gotta be fucking stupid to think that anyone with food stamps is going to a farmer's market.
The argument is not Wally World versus farmer's market - but more against your mom and pop local business. The business pricepoint to sustain a mom and pop place is simply higher than that of massive corporate buying power and self-labeling manufacturing (Great Value brand). Until the 'system' figures out how to reverse that or (dare I say it) 'regulate' how the large companies spread and force out the smaller markets, then your system is broken.
Ring Ring - Obama phone calling: STOP TREATING THE SYMPTOMS!
Why is the system broken ? It seems the vast majority is voting with their dollars and they prefer the walmart mantility. If the majority of people wanted something different, we would have something different. Don't you want the majority to rule ? That's what we have.
Have a look at Vermont. The majority there do not want walmarts in every town, therefore they only have two or three in the whole state.
And that brings a good point. Why don't we strip the federal goverment of their power and give it to the states. Then we could have 50 shades of politics. A few states ultra liberal, a few states ultra conservative and all the colors of the rainbow in between. Then everyone would have an opportunity to live in a state that they would define as "correct' (or much closer than now anyway).
Keith
Have a look at Vermont. The majority there do not want walmarts in every town, therefore they only have two or three in the whole state.
And that brings a good point. Why don't we strip the federal goverment of their power and give it to the states. Then we could have 50 shades of politics. A few states ultra liberal, a few states ultra conservative and all the colors of the rainbow in between. Then everyone would have an opportunity to live in a state that they would define as "correct' (or much closer than now anyway).
Keith
knewsom said:
A Farmers market is a great example of the Free Enterprise Market that only deals in barter or notes... Sounds pretty safe and sound to me.
knewsom said:
Not true.
Megacorporation is an inflammatory term, but it is also a fanciful term, and by no accepted definition applies to any business currently functioning on our planet.
During the time of our Founding Fathers, however, such entities were present, and their effects permeated daily life the world over. One could argue that those who penned our Constitution were far more aware of such things than most people are today.
Walmart is a general store on the edge of a ghost town compared to what was going on back then. The closest you'll come to that kind of power today are Keiretsu, nearly all of which are more than a match for Walmart.
Hey. I hate Walmart. I won't go into one. Walmart is not the problem, though.
The problem is the disposable and greedy lifestyle people have.
I own nothing purchased at Walmart. I do my best to avoid things made in China, and it can indeed be done. When I buy something, I plan to keep it for a long time.
You don't have to have everything right now. Take your time and do it right.
Cheers,
Kennith