I stopped at a gas station to fill up my 95......and only afterwards noticed the 10% ethanol sign.....
Whats the boards opinion on ethanol- problems and pluses?
Whats the boards opinion on ethanol- problems and pluses?
Ethanol
- Thread starter Rocky
- Start date
My '98 D1 owner's manuals recomends a maximum of 10% ethanol. Not sure how that plays out in the real world, but that's what is recommended.
Victor
Victor
IL has been using 10% EtOH for several years now. They feel the midwest corn growers pressure to add it to the fuel. Besides EtOH giving less MPG, I've gotten so used to it, when I don't see it I'm surprised.Chris Browne said:
My car used to knock with it in. If you have an old one you might have to chaqnge the timing if you ran it everyday but....
The dealer is now blaming my check engine light on Ethanol in my Toyota Prius. They turned it off Thursday and it's back on today. :banghead:
i don't think we can assume that notion quite yet. we can with Land Rovers since the % of them still on the road today is close to 70% of all ever produced. we don't and can't project accurately what that % will be with an H2 or Prius.
i am willing to be bet the H2 will have been traded in 2 times in that time frame. that alone ends the "life cycle". at that point the original owner purchased a new vehicle.........adding another vehicle to the road. not to mention all the non renewable materials used to make that vehicle, the additional smog, insurance, etc, etc.
that is why i think it is pretty silly to buy an additional car simply to reduce your fuel consumption. i does not make sense for most of us.
i am willing to be bet the H2 will have been traded in 2 times in that time frame. that alone ends the "life cycle". at that point the original owner purchased a new vehicle.........adding another vehicle to the road. not to mention all the non renewable materials used to make that vehicle, the additional smog, insurance, etc, etc.
that is why i think it is pretty silly to buy an additional car simply to reduce your fuel consumption. i does not make sense for most of us.
Damn, was I supposed to get a CareBear... My grandson would have liked one.
Yeah Garrett, I'll bring it to Rausch next time.
Somehow I don't think the H2 will last as long as my D1 or the Prius. The first new car I owned for 20 years, then I bought my D1 and I have had it 11 1/2. Had I not bought the Prius my D1 would have reached the 250K lifecycle I set, and I would have probably bought a pickup truck.
Made sense for me. For commuting, I'm quite happy with my Prius getting 50 MPG vs. the Disco 11 MPG.
Yeah Garrett, I'll bring it to Rausch next time.
Somehow I don't think the H2 will last as long as my D1 or the Prius. The first new car I owned for 20 years, then I bought my D1 and I have had it 11 1/2. Had I not bought the Prius my D1 would have reached the 250K lifecycle I set, and I would have probably bought a pickup truck.
Made sense for me. For commuting, I'm quite happy with my Prius getting 50 MPG vs. the Disco 11 MPG.
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so you are getting 50 mpg out of it. sarah's parents have one and they are not hitting that number. has about 30K on it. they love it.
Commuting, I get around 43 MPG on winter gas and 50-52 Spring and fall and during the summer it's around 47-48 due to the A/C use. I've got 74K on mine, it's a 2003 model. My coworker has a 2005 model with over 50K and doesn't get much over 50 but she drives over the mountain every day and doesn't have a lot of stop and go traffic. We both like the car as well.
Stop and go traffic is where you get the best mileage, just the opposite of course for the disco.
Stop and go traffic is where you get the best mileage, just the opposite of course for the disco.
now correct me if i'm wrong but ethanol is higher octane which is one of the reason people get lower MPG because thier engines are not tuned for it, so if engines are tuned for it they should get similar MPG but at lower costs, and eventually if it goes wide-stream we would have a renewable clean burning fuel that gives jobs to us USA people who like us, rather than well you know....
R
rovnsurfer62
Guest
Yes, all gas will have at least 10% ethanol in it now. sometime ago the enviromental people decided that MTBE was leeching into the ground through underground fuel tanks at gas stations. I guess old gas stations. Thus, leaking into the ground water supply;so,rather than have the old stations shut down or upgrade congress made the knee jerk reaction to switch to ethanol. I would imagine the corn growing lobbyists had their hand in this also. I don't know the exact time frame congress gave the refineries to start mixing ethanol but a Valero exec. told me the deadline for the gas stations to start using ethanol was sometime last month (at least for TX). I believe this to be for all the U.S. though. My question is this, if congress knew that we (U.S.) had to make the switch to ethanol;then,why did'nt they anticipate the use of ethanol. A shortage of ethanol refining capacity is another reason the price of gas is so high.
I was reading another thread and someone in
Denver said he had to pay $2.50 a gallon. I live within 20 miles of Shell, Chevron, Exxon/Mobil,Valero,Crown,Lyondell Citgo & BP. I've been paying $3.15 for premium at a shell station. Iknow the cost of transportation of getting fuel to the pump is not that much of a cost. Is this because Denver is closer to the ethanol now? I'm at a loss. I figured if I work at least two days of O.T. a month I can run the wheels off my DII and have enough left over for beer.
I have observed this, when I drive to Houston and go through the more affluent areas(lets say Land Rover dealrship) the price of premium gas at a Shell station is $3.35.
Supply and demand and what area of town you live.
atriot:
I was reading another thread and someone in
Denver said he had to pay $2.50 a gallon. I live within 20 miles of Shell, Chevron, Exxon/Mobil,Valero,Crown,Lyondell Citgo & BP. I've been paying $3.15 for premium at a shell station. Iknow the cost of transportation of getting fuel to the pump is not that much of a cost. Is this because Denver is closer to the ethanol now? I'm at a loss. I figured if I work at least two days of O.T. a month I can run the wheels off my DII and have enough left over for beer.
I have observed this, when I drive to Houston and go through the more affluent areas(lets say Land Rover dealrship) the price of premium gas at a Shell station is $3.35.
Supply and demand and what area of town you live.
atriot:Sorry to break the news to you but ethanol has lower energy content and therefore will result in a drop in mpg.
Ethanol: A Tragedy in 3 Acts
Fuel type MJ/L BTU/imp gal BTU/US gal
Gasoline 32.0 150,000 125,000
Ethanol 19.59 101,360 84,400
Gasohol (10% ethanol + 90% gasoline) 28.06 145,200 120,900
MTBE was found to be a carcinogen hence the move to ethanol. MTBE has an affinity for WATER!
Ethanol: A Tragedy in 3 Acts
Fuel type MJ/L BTU/imp gal BTU/US gal
Gasoline 32.0 150,000 125,000
Ethanol 19.59 101,360 84,400
Gasohol (10% ethanol + 90% gasoline) 28.06 145,200 120,900
MTBE was found to be a carcinogen hence the move to ethanol. MTBE has an affinity for WATER!
Land Rover issued a bulletin to retailers. Here it is:
Subject: "E85" Ethanol Blend Fuel – Prohibition on Use in Land Rover Vehicles
There has been considerable media attention and publicity recently about the increased
demand for "renewable" energy sources such as alternative ethanol-based vehicle
fuels. Land Rover would like to call your attention to the statements in the Owner's
Handbooks which specify the types of fuels that are acceptable for use in Land Rover
vehicles. Please review the appended extracted Owner's Handbook page regarding
fuel specifications and ethanol in fuels. Use this information when discussing fuel
choices with your customers.
The Owner’s Handbooks state the following with regard to ethanol content in fuel:
"Up to 10% of Ethanol (Ethyl or grain alcohol) and unleaded fuel mix."
Since "E85" fuels are 85 percent ethanol, it is clear that this fuel cannot be used in
currently imported vehicles. To run on "E85" fuels vehicles must be produced to a
‘flexible fuel’ specification that is not manufactured by Land Rover.
Although Land Rover has developed vehicles capable of running on the modest levels
of ethanol in the various "blends" used in North American markets, there are no Land
Rover vehicles capable of running as "flexible fuel" vehicles on E85 fuel nor any fuel
system components tailored to high ethanol concentration use.
Materials commonly used in automotive applications and routinely used in gasoline fuel
systems will not withstand the alcohol content of E85 fuel.
• The corrosive nature of ethanol can damage common materials such as many
plastics, steel, and aluminum.
• Ethanol can cause many elastomers as used for O-rings and hoses to swell and
lose tensile strength over time.
Failure to observe the specified limits on fuel ethanol content may cause damage to the
vehicle fuel system and may void the vehicle warranty.
Subject: "E85" Ethanol Blend Fuel – Prohibition on Use in Land Rover Vehicles
There has been considerable media attention and publicity recently about the increased
demand for "renewable" energy sources such as alternative ethanol-based vehicle
fuels. Land Rover would like to call your attention to the statements in the Owner's
Handbooks which specify the types of fuels that are acceptable for use in Land Rover
vehicles. Please review the appended extracted Owner's Handbook page regarding
fuel specifications and ethanol in fuels. Use this information when discussing fuel
choices with your customers.
The Owner’s Handbooks state the following with regard to ethanol content in fuel:
"Up to 10% of Ethanol (Ethyl or grain alcohol) and unleaded fuel mix."
Since "E85" fuels are 85 percent ethanol, it is clear that this fuel cannot be used in
currently imported vehicles. To run on "E85" fuels vehicles must be produced to a
‘flexible fuel’ specification that is not manufactured by Land Rover.
Although Land Rover has developed vehicles capable of running on the modest levels
of ethanol in the various "blends" used in North American markets, there are no Land
Rover vehicles capable of running as "flexible fuel" vehicles on E85 fuel nor any fuel
system components tailored to high ethanol concentration use.
Materials commonly used in automotive applications and routinely used in gasoline fuel
systems will not withstand the alcohol content of E85 fuel.
• The corrosive nature of ethanol can damage common materials such as many
plastics, steel, and aluminum.
• Ethanol can cause many elastomers as used for O-rings and hoses to swell and
lose tensile strength over time.
Failure to observe the specified limits on fuel ethanol content may cause damage to the
vehicle fuel system and may void the vehicle warranty.
MarkP said:
yes but Ethanol is an Oxygenated fuel and will burn more efficiently and completly then gas if an engine is set up correctly, it may be possibly to get similar or better mpg. not to mention ZERO (0) net CO2 emissions from ethanol.
how much would it cost to replace all rubber, aluminum and all that stuff to change to ethanol... is it even possible?
I won't use the stuff.
Good call, Alyssa. The 215 was designed with alcohol in mind, but it isn't built that way anymore. Lots of composites and seals need to be replaced, switch to the steel gaskets, etc... It isn't a big job, though, getting it back to being streetable on alcohol, but there is absolutely no reward.
It will actually work as it is on just about anything except diesel, but it won't work effeciently, and if you think you have leaks now, you have another thing coming.
Then lose your power, as well as your fuel mileage, and support a fuel whose infrastructure can never support itself.
Use ethanol, and pay the price.
We have plenty of oil, and that means plenty of time to come up with a good alternative. Corn gas is not that alternative.
Cheers,
Kennith
Good call, Alyssa. The 215 was designed with alcohol in mind, but it isn't built that way anymore. Lots of composites and seals need to be replaced, switch to the steel gaskets, etc... It isn't a big job, though, getting it back to being streetable on alcohol, but there is absolutely no reward.
It will actually work as it is on just about anything except diesel, but it won't work effeciently, and if you think you have leaks now, you have another thing coming.
Then lose your power, as well as your fuel mileage, and support a fuel whose infrastructure can never support itself.
Use ethanol, and pay the price.
We have plenty of oil, and that means plenty of time to come up with a good alternative. Corn gas is not that alternative.
Cheers,
Kennith
nprovo99 said:
The aluminum isn't the issue. If you replaced that, you wouldn't have a motor.
The issue is that the fuel sucks. Oh, yeah, and it eats natural rubber for breakfast. Just so happens that Land Rover decided to build the only British vehicle without steel gaskets everywhere. The things have more rubber than gas station bathroom. It wasn't always that way, and it won't cause a catastrophic failure or anything.
The issue is you lose a lot just in the fuel, and on top of it your vehicle will be less reliable.
The motor can indeed handle the alcohol, but with increased maintanance costs. The corn gas will end up costing you quite a lot more to run.
Cheers,
Kennith