F**k ROVERS NORTH

[SCSL]

God knows there have been some vendor horror stories out there with some small & questionably run outfits.

But Rovers North is hardly a "Johnny come lately" and has been a huge supporter of the LR community in North America. Something sounds strange here...

 

[ptschram]

Sean:
Your supporters are far outnumbered by those of us who have had better experiences with RN.

To quote Bob Weir "Am I the victim or the crime". Perhaps a mirror is in order.

PT

 

[antichrist]

I've dealt with RN for quite a few years, since the 80's. I've had both good experiences and also wrong parts shipped. But I for one would be royally pissed if I ordered a $1700 part for a Series II and was shipped (without my approval in advance) a part for a Series III that couldn't work on the II without mods.
Maybe Sean rang up and ripped them a new one, and it went downhill from there. I don't know. But I might have as well.
Assuming Sean's story is accurate, then there was no excuse for him not being told. How hard could it be to say "Yes, it will work fine, but not without a few modifications."? When you're buying something, that you're told will work, from a vendor you shouldn't have to ask what make it is and then go research to see if they are telling the truth.

 

[DiscoNomad]

I'm betting that everyone's experience with Rovers North is MOSTLY based on boxed items and not frames. If Rovers North messed up and sent out the wrong seat covers as long as they pay for shipping and a full refund I doubt anyone would be upset past the inconvenience. Drop a 1500 lbs crate on your street and make you figure out how to put it in the garage...then find out its the wrong frame after being ASSURED it was going to fit...they would get a heated phone call from me too. Instead of trying to show your "unshakable support to your favorite retailer" why don't you put yourself in his shoes and think what a pain in the ass it would be.

 

[jsonova99]

Out of curiousity, what is the best answer for the Series II? I would have made this same mistake in a few years had this thread not come up.

 

[mikemeyer0]

It comes down to business. He ordered something, paid for it, got something different. RN fucked up, they should deal with it, if they don't wanna deal with it, oh well thats how they do business, and maybe thats what works for them. Customer service should be a main priority in a company, especially a parts company. I am not sure what RN's story is, I don't care. If customers are un-satisfied thats what matters to me. I am going to pay more attention in how it worked out for the customer, not the company. There may be a day I need something from RN but if I do they better be the only one that stock it....

 

[sven]

RN offered to take it back, so whats the problem?

 

[DiscoNomad]

RN offered to take it back, so whats the problem?

You are a retailers dream...

 

[ptschram]

I'm betting that everyone's experience with Rovers North is MOSTLY based on boxed items and not frames.

I have spent in excess of $21,000 with Rovers North (not including my Rovacom-Lite) in the past five years. I have bought some very big and very expensive items from them.

They are not perfect, but this is not at all consistent with my experience.

I for one will not allow this individual's experience color my relationship with Rovers North.

 

[Leslie]

Out of curiousity, what is the best answer for the Series II? I would have made this same mistake in a few years had this thread not come up.

It comes down to business. He ordered something, paid for it, got something different. RN fucked up, they should deal with it, if they don't wanna deal with it, oh well thats how they do business, and maybe thats what works for them. Customer service should be a main priority in a company, especially a parts company. I am not sure what RN's story is, I don't care. If customers are un-satisfied thats what matters to me. I am going to pay more attention in how it worked out for the customer, not the company. There may be a day I need something from RN but if I do they better be the only one that stock it....

I really feel weird here, defending RN instead of the little guy, given that I've not been entirely happy w/ RN in the past, but.... it was right there in the catalog, "II, IIa, III" with one part number.


RN offers replacement chassis, galvanized, from Marsland for either SWB or LWB vehicles.
http://www.roversnorth.com/store/pc-218-276-page-42-chassis-frame-outriggers-repair-kits.aspx

For 88", you can choose civilian or military.
For a 109", you can choose civilian or military for regular 3-door vehicles, a station wagon version, or a 6-cyl station wagon version.

For each entry, the catalog says "SII, SIIa, SIII", they don't have specific chassis for earlier ones versus later ones... the SIII is the most common, the "most improved design", and therefore the one that is built. There are differences, but *most* people that are doing a chassis swap are used to how Rovers are built and know that it's a III chassis and know how to deal with putting it under a IIa.

As I said earlier, I've got an 88" SIII, and I've put it back on a Marsland SIII chassis, but I replaced my tub with a IIa tub because of corrosion. Yes, the III chassis has tub tabs that the IIa wasn't set up for, but it still works.

If I didn't know that it was going to be different, but saw that it was the same part number, I would have called and asked what's up... and, knowing what I do know about them, I would expect that they would reply that there are some subtle differences, and that they could explain to me what modifications are needed.

I wasn't privy to the conversation you had with Mark, or with whoever you spoke to before you spoke to Mark, but I'm sure that if you had spoke with Les or Mike or Erik and made the situation clear, they could have explained what was needed. If you just called and say "I've got the wrong part", when there's only one part available, there's not much that can be done. If you called and said "This part is different than the one it's replacing, how do I make this part work or do I need something different..." then they could have explained what changes are needed. It's not like a chassis is a plug n' play part, it's not a bolt-on and go accessory, and they sometimes need modification to suit the application.

Would it have been nice to have known that up front? Sure.



FWIW: the Richards chassis are available as being specific to whatever year you need, but the quality seems to be bad, as in "cross-members being put on upside down" bad. Designa makes chassis for converting to coils. Otherwise, you'll end up getting a Marsland chassis, which will be a SIII chassis, regardless of who you buy it from.


I don't know Mark, and can't speak on his behalf. I'm sorry that you've had such a bad experience with this, and I'd be shopping with my wallet elsewhere if such had happened. I just want you to realize that, odds are, your choice elsewhere is probably going to end up being the same product.

Again, I wish you luck, and hope things go better from here.

 

[sean]

this is my first rover frame swap, yes the catolog was confusing, how can they advertise a II and IIa frame "machined to land rover specifications" as there catolog quotes when a III is not the original specifications as a II. so i called and asked. i was never told about the difference and was under the impression they did have a II frame.

les, pt, you guys know the differences and are aquainted with series, i don't expect to change your views but for the guys like me and joe, sometimes we have to go on what the retailer is telling us. and it would be nice if they would tell us exactly what we need for the product they are sending out.

 

[antichrist]

I have spent in excess of $21,000 with Rovers North (not including my Rovacom-Lite) in the past five years. I have bought some very big and very expensive items from them.

They are not perfect, but this is not at all consistent with my experience.

I for one will not allow this individual's experience color my relationship with Rovers North.

I hear where you're coming from, and I pretty much agree. I usually base my choices on who to do business with, if it's someone I've been doing business with for a long time, on my own personal experience. No one is perfect. When the bad outweighs the good, then they lose me as a customer. I always keep in mind that what I read here is hearsay, in many ways. The recent Northwest thread being an exception.

 

[LRflip]

How this for a bump baby, FU. A holes like you are everywhere. I'm sure you hassle waitresses and are a bad tipper to.

and pirate spanked you for the candy ass that you are.

Kevin, you are the man...
by the way, that 3rd member is working out great.
You were so calm when we talked on the phone....what happened!

 

[tightgroup]

There is the point on how RN handled the FU. All companies, dealor, vendors FU, but its way that it is handle which make the difference.

RN should of fessed up and treat the customer with respect. Instead he was blown off like a smuck who knows nothing. Thats what gets me!

I have been in business for the last 25 years, and yes I have FU, and sometimes royally, but you stand in front of the customer, you explain and correct it.

You DO NOT piss on the customer, because your staff did not do their job! Often the rep will poopoo the customer. yes it fits, sure no problems, blablabla. Its up to the organization to correct this.

When I first started with Landies, I was a newbie and forums were not that numerous. So you went to vendors for help, let me tell you, I was fleeced by all! I was being sold stuff I did not need and stuff that did not fit. In most cases the owners were nice and corrected the situatiion.

But in this Case RN FU twice..

My 2 canadian cents

TG

 

[byronAU]

RN offered to take it back, so whats the problem?

well ......um you see....the guy doesn't like being basically told he's a mewling, whingeing fuckin' idiot because he got the wrong part from them.....noticed it and complained.....um, I guess that's why.......now repeat after me: BE SILENT -WORK - SPEND - CONSUME - BE SILENT - SPEND - CONSUME - DIE.......

 

[Leslie]

this is my first rover frame swap, yes the catolog was confusing, how can they advertise a II and IIa frame "machined to land rover specifications" as there catolog quotes when a III is not the original specifications as a II. so i called and asked. i was never told about the difference and was under the impression they did have a II frame.

les, pt, you guys know the differences and are aquainted with series, i don't expect to change your views but for the guys like me and joe, sometimes we have to go on what the retailer is telling us. and it would be nice if they would tell us exactly what we need for the product they are sending out.

I can see that.... I agree, I've pulled apart more Series than most people in the US ever see, so I've seen some weird things that came from the factory that way, all the different variations (well, I shouldn't say *all*, as I'm sure the next one I see will have yet something else different, that's just the way Rover is....).

Back when I was starting out, if I called up and ordered something, and was left with the impression that it was *exactly* what I needed, then yes, I'd be miffed when it was different and required extra work to get it to work. Communication is key; and, yes, it sounds like the conversation went south instead of staying amicable, which is unfortunate. I'm not blaming you for not knowing that what you'd get wasn't going to be what you thought you were going to get.

The company should have taken the time to clear up the understanding. I wish they had, for your behalf. But, it's done.


So, what now from here? Are you going to keep this one and get it to work, or, send it back and get another from elsewhere, or, take your chances with a Richards?

 

[sean]

leslie, i work in retail, and know the first thing you do is apologize and ask the customer what can be done to make him happy, if he is still unreasonable then a big FU.
i was never even offered a apology just the FU. i would have been happy with just "a sorry for the misunderstanding".
is that really too much for the rest of you to understand?

 

[DJG]

leslie, i work in retail, and know the first thing you do is apologize and ask the customer what can be done to make him happy, if he is still unreasonable then a big FU.
i was never even offered a apology just the FU. i would have been happy with just "a sorry for the misunderstanding".
is that really too much for the rest of you to understand?

I think we all understand. First, I wouldn't really consider RN "retailers". I have read your many posts throughout d-90, LRO, pirate 4x4, even muddyoval stating this! (all of which called you out as an ass) Maybe in the technical term they are retailers but they are certainly not the fucking gap, walmart or local store where you buy your depends undergarments.

I would suggest you save your breath bithing about RN and use it for all the sucking up your going to have to do to get parts for your rover in months to come. I would be curious to know how much business you have done with RN in the past? I bet this was a one-time purchase that went bad.

 

[RangeRoverHP]

So you bought a Marsland chassis and are upset it doesn't fit your SII with out mods?

 

[grfa]

leslie, i work in retail, and know the first thing you do is apologize and ask the customer what can be done to make him happy, if he is still unreasonable then a big FU.
i was never even offered a apology just the FU. i would have been happy with just "a sorry for the misunderstanding".
is that really too much for the rest of you to understand?

I completely understand where you are coming from. I had the same thing happen with an aftermarket BMW company. They dicked me around with shipping, held parts I ordered for a month (even though they were in stock and I had a long conversation that I needed them before moving and paid for next day shipping). I never got a sorry or a refund.

If it was something huge like a chassis being shipped halfway across the US, I can understand that would be a major pain in the ass. There is more to it than just saying "here's your money back". I bought a Marsland chassis second hand (originally from RN, but never used) for my 71 IIa. I called up RN to order all the correct parts (the handbrake stuff) for it to work on my IIa. Luckily on my truck, because it was already during SIII production, not much else was different. Also, I knew ahead of time that things would need to be changed. Usually RN is very good with telling you what fits where. Although I can definitely see them assuming all customers would know that chassis are the same and require modifications.

I've worked in retail all my life and its a rare skill to be able to satisfy customers and fix situations when they don't work out right. Some of the most fun ones were working at a car dealership when cars were ordered in the wrong color. Try fixing that when a customer walks up to their new $60k car and says "Is this the color I ordered?"

If you cannot find a new chassis that will suit your needs I would look into finding a used chassis. It is not uncommon to hear of people sending out their original chassis to be galvanized because they remained in good shape.

Also, just disregard people like LRflip who have absolutely no place in this thread.

I don't know which parts supplier you usually deal with but I use Atlantic British a lot (even though I sometimes end up with the wrong parts) because their prices are good, their catalog is easy to search, normal shipping gets items to me next day, and I've been able to return wrong parts even after I've had them for 6 months.