OK, maybe this a basic question, but how do good fabricators become good fabricators? I've spoken to good welders that don't know anything about design or engineering and I've spoken with really good engineers that have no idea how to weld. Good fabricators seem to be somewhere in the middle. I would like to build my own equipment, but don't want it to look like my high school welding project. If you have any ideas on how to start fabricating I would appreciate it.
Fabricators?
- Thread starter RayDunn
- Start date
Everyone has tostart somewhere.. A good fabricator now was probably the guy who made the old high school project that looked like sh*t, but wouldn't give up. All I can say is study pictures and read as much as possible. Ask yourself why is that made that way?? It will take lots of practice and trial and error but that is how you gat good at anything. Some people just start earlier than others.
It also helps to find someone to help you out. Find a good fabricator and ask for help to learn the how and why of building stuff.
It does take a little imagination at first. Because you will not have all the tools. I built my first front bumper using a jig saw and a stick welder. All out of 1/4" steel. It took alot of pacitence and saw blades but it got done. Now I have a plazma cutter and a Mig welder. Makes the jobs easier.
It also helps to find someone to help you out. Find a good fabricator and ask for help to learn the how and why of building stuff.
It does take a little imagination at first. Because you will not have all the tools. I built my first front bumper using a jig saw and a stick welder. All out of 1/4" steel. It took alot of pacitence and saw blades but it got done. Now I have a plazma cutter and a Mig welder. Makes the jobs easier.
a fabricator becomes a good fabricator by fabricating a lot...
time, time amd more time.
learn to weld, and then spend hours behind the mask. start building anything and everything
and then cut it up and do it again.
remember this, a finished product often became so from hours of trial and error and many many prototypes.
good luck, and dont give up
time, time amd more time.
learn to weld, and then spend hours behind the mask. start building anything and everything
and then cut it up and do it again.
remember this, a finished product often became so from hours of trial and error and many many prototypes.
good luck, and dont give up
Ray, the most shocking part of being a mechanical engineering major so far has been the fact that we only spend 1/2 of one semester of one class in a metal shop and most of that time is spent on basic tools (drill press/manual milling machine). Also it's been made clear to us that entry level engineers are expected to know 99% edumacation stuff (calc/physics/mechanics/materials/thermal/CAD) and 1% of what I deem as being practical knowledge. The "A" students in my class all have two overriding traits, they're foreign and have nada in terms of hands on stuff know-how.
If you want to toy with an M.E. major, ask him the difference between MIG and TIG welding. I'm guessing 25% will know what the acronyms stand for, 15% could recognize the torches, 4% had touched the torches, 1% have used them, and the remaining 55% would have no clue.
Why am I so passionate about this? Because damnit I'm one of the hands on "C" students and it ain't fair!!!!!!
Case in point, Thermal Fluids Class, Prof. is giving a lecture on Otto cycle "heat engines", nerdball raises hand after lecture and asks (no shit) "If these engines are so good at providing power, why don't we see them in cars?" I have no words to explain this, but nerdball works for the university at the National High Magnetic Field Lab and is a straight "A" student.
Sorry for the rant, grades just came out and all,
Dan
If you want to toy with an M.E. major, ask him the difference between MIG and TIG welding. I'm guessing 25% will know what the acronyms stand for, 15% could recognize the torches, 4% had touched the torches, 1% have used them, and the remaining 55% would have no clue.
Why am I so passionate about this? Because damnit I'm one of the hands on "C" students and it ain't fair!!!!!!
Case in point, Thermal Fluids Class, Prof. is giving a lecture on Otto cycle "heat engines", nerdball raises hand after lecture and asks (no shit) "If these engines are so good at providing power, why don't we see them in cars?" I have no words to explain this, but nerdball works for the university at the National High Magnetic Field Lab and is a straight "A" student.
Sorry for the rant, grades just came out and all,
Dan
PS: Otto cycle = nerd term for internal combustion piston engine (spark ignited not compression ignited)
Dan
Dan
As said before, a good fabricator takes all of his bits of knowledge from experience. Myself and a few of my buddies are starting to get into it. I am in M.E. major, and I have spent a lot of time observing what vehicles need in the field. What works, and what doesn't. Drawing on this, I get a few measurements, and spool up my imagination. I also get input from the person, since it is their bumper. What do they want? What don't they want? What kind of upgradability do they want? What is the vehicle used for? Is there a secondary purpose? (like on cherokees, anything to help stiffen the unibody) I take all of this and a piece of engineering paper and spew out a beginning concept. I then go back and on another piece of paper, make another drawing with a ruler, straight lines, proper angles, etc. Then autoCAD with dimensions. Then we get the materials and make it. A lot of times, a cardboard mockup is needed. The cardboard mockup insures that there is no fundamental problems, mainly, the concept of two objects occuping the same space (this is a problem). If there are any problems, it is very easy to cut/duct tape cardboard than it is to deal with steel. Finally, we build the little guy. Most of the stuff has been done with either a 220v stick welder, or more recently (due to the college location) a Hobart 135 flux core. The flux core barely gets the job done, but it makes it happen.
As one becomes more proficient, a lot of these steps can be skipped/reduced. But since I am new to this, I go the long way. Also it does keep my sketching skills up, since I took that class a year ago.
As one becomes more proficient, a lot of these steps can be skipped/reduced. But since I am new to this, I go the long way. Also it does keep my sketching skills up, since I took that class a year ago.
M
mkronmal
Guest
ptschram
Well-known member
The sad thing is how many "Automotive Engineers" do not even know how to change their own oil, but man, can they write a PPAP.
I worked for one of the largest tier one suppliers. It was sad how many of our "Engineers" (real ones, not just barely literate high school grads who were dubbed engineers by HR)could not hold a screwdriver without hurting themselves, yet they were specing multi-million dollar machinery to build parts for vehicles.
Sad and scary.
As for how fabricators become proficient-practice, practice, practice.
Personally, I think that like artists, engineers are born, not trained. For some, being an engineer is an educational achievement, for the rest of us, it's a genetic curse!
Peace,
PT
I worked for one of the largest tier one suppliers. It was sad how many of our "Engineers" (real ones, not just barely literate high school grads who were dubbed engineers by HR)could not hold a screwdriver without hurting themselves, yet they were specing multi-million dollar machinery to build parts for vehicles.
Sad and scary.
As for how fabricators become proficient-practice, practice, practice.
Personally, I think that like artists, engineers are born, not trained. For some, being an engineer is an educational achievement, for the rest of us, it's a genetic curse!
Peace,
PT
Kingsport grew up around Eastman-Kodak before the two split up; Eastman Chemical Company is still one of the largest employers here. Everybody I grew up with, we all had either parents or grandparents that worked there. Before my dad retired from there, he was a machinist. Eastman would hire twenty engineers in hopes of having one who could actually be an engineer, and the rest were all channelled into low&mid-level management.
Dad once was cleaning shavings off of a table so he could set up a level for the next job, and one of the managing "engineers" chastised him for wasting time.
Shavings underneath a level wouldn't hurt the accuracy, would it? lol....
-L
Dad once was cleaning shavings off of a table so he could set up a level for the next job, and one of the managing "engineers" chastised him for wasting time.
Shavings underneath a level wouldn't hurt the accuracy, would it? lol....-L
From the frist time I ever worked on a car I was convinced that an automotive engineer shouldn't be allowed PE on his moniker until he'd spent a year or two working in a garage.
My dad was an electrical engineer, respected, and often called on to solve problems others couldn't. I think the reason he was so good (aside from his compulsion to always do things right) was that he started out as an electricians mate on the Oklahoma in '40, went on to college after the he left the service in the 50's while still working, starting out on the shop floor at GE, and working his way up to doing electical design work for the Gemini program and Nuclear power plants. So, when he designed something, he knew what it was like to be the person all the way down the chain who had to deal with it on a day to day basis. And he knew that sometimes a lot of lives depended on the quality of his work.
Start at the bottom and work your way up to where you want to be.
My dad was an electrical engineer, respected, and often called on to solve problems others couldn't. I think the reason he was so good (aside from his compulsion to always do things right) was that he started out as an electricians mate on the Oklahoma in '40, went on to college after the he left the service in the 50's while still working, starting out on the shop floor at GE, and working his way up to doing electical design work for the Gemini program and Nuclear power plants. So, when he designed something, he knew what it was like to be the person all the way down the chain who had to deal with it on a day to day basis. And he knew that sometimes a lot of lives depended on the quality of his work.
Start at the bottom and work your way up to where you want to be.
A
AndyThoma
Guest
antichrist said:
Problem is that makes you prime for a layoff. Sad to say engineering today isn't about hands on or real world experience, it's about making budget. I'm in civil engineering and inexperience or having a plan be correct isn't the goal for our projects. The goal is to be under budget and qualify for bonuses, we'll fix it when we get the budget appended after submittial
I'm starting to hate this field because to be successful you really need to know how to ass kiss and work 80 hour weeks. I don't like the stress of having my name on something for a company that may lay me off if times get tough. The civil side of engineering has been so violitile for the past 10 years I don't think job security is luxury or company loyality is anything a current civil engineer can count one. I'm just as bad as I would jump ship for a better offer, may not give me more experience but at least I might be able to ride a company's work load to assure an income. (FYI .....I was layed off twice in the past 5 years, so I might be bitter )
Well...what I meant was, while in school, try to find a job related to your field, not just flipping burgers. Which is sorta obvious I guess lol
These days it's really difficult to work your way up in a single company, since so few companies have any sort of loyalty to employees. Like you said, it's all about the bottom line, and fix it once it's in the field.
These days it's really difficult to work your way up in a single company, since so few companies have any sort of loyalty to employees. Like you said, it's all about the bottom line, and fix it once it's in the field.
A guy that may be useless...
Yep, that is funny!! I good friend of mine (also a "C" student) is a mech. eng. and he use to rant about the same thing in college. He use to talk about the guys that could do advanced trig in their head, but were completely void of common sense. My friend is pretty much useless in the shop though; knows how it should be done, but can't do it. If he could I guess I would know a damn good fabricator!!!
DannyDisco said:
Yep, that is funny!! I good friend of mine (also a "C" student) is a mech. eng. and he use to rant about the same thing in college. He use to talk about the guys that could do advanced trig in their head, but were completely void of common sense. My friend is pretty much useless in the shop though; knows how it should be done, but can't do it. If he could I guess I would know a damn good fabricator!!!
After reading some of these messages, I must say I am pretty f*&$ing lucky. I used to work on cars with my dad, did summer jobs on a friend's farm working in orchards, irrigation fields, repairing equipment and rebuilding the motor in my friend's Grand Jerokee J##p. I later worked in the hay business and was exposed to many types of machinery. The bug bit me and I headed to college to get a ME. Luckily UC Davis has many labs in upper division ME courses that require hands on work. Milling, drilling, welding, etc. We even participate in the National automotive design challenges. I worked on the Hybrid-electric car for 1994.
Now comes the good part. I met my wife on a blind date in school. Her dad ran a company that made industrial computer chassis (factory floors, military apps, etc.) I started working in assembly to get a grasp of the design principles and sheet metal manufacturing processes. I was finally allowed to design a chassis. What an eye opener. After designing in school and typically spec'ing +/- 0.003", I had to learn a whole new acceptance for greater tolerances, +/- 0.005 to +/- 0.025". Well I have been working here for 13 years and have learned a lot and learn something new everyday. We have moved all our manufacturing in house, as well as finishing, silk-screening and assembly. GReat for personal projects for the LR. Now, I can design in 3D in SolidWorks, but I always rely on my past experience to see if what I design can actually be made and easily assembled. Nothing beats hands on experience! Okay, I'm done. Sorry for the long banter.
Chris D.
PS I was one of the B- students who had practical experience.
Now comes the good part. I met my wife on a blind date in school. Her dad ran a company that made industrial computer chassis (factory floors, military apps, etc.) I started working in assembly to get a grasp of the design principles and sheet metal manufacturing processes. I was finally allowed to design a chassis. What an eye opener. After designing in school and typically spec'ing +/- 0.003", I had to learn a whole new acceptance for greater tolerances, +/- 0.005 to +/- 0.025". Well I have been working here for 13 years and have learned a lot and learn something new everyday. We have moved all our manufacturing in house, as well as finishing, silk-screening and assembly. GReat for personal projects for the LR. Now, I can design in 3D in SolidWorks, but I always rely on my past experience to see if what I design can actually be made and easily assembled. Nothing beats hands on experience! Okay, I'm done. Sorry for the long banter.
Chris D.
PS I was one of the B- students who had practical experience.