Front windows not working on 95 disco. Please help
- Thread starter zende
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J
jbulluck
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I have exactly the same problem, although my seat motors went out at EXACTLY the same moment as both front windows - see this post for the full story) - please any thoughts would be appreciated....
J
jbulluck
Guest
**RIDDLE ME THIS** . .(very helpful guys) I have only had front windows working on my 96 D1, but when my driver window went out I had to do something (it would click in the ECU area). I did the solder job explained on fixing the rear windows AND IT FIXED ALL the windows! Turned the truck on and put it in the garage (from the driveway) tried again out of curiosity and NO WINDOWS WORK, not even a click in the ECU area. .
Pulled the module out again and did another meticulous solder job on suspect spots, reinstalled, still nothing nor any sound anywhere. Dealer tech said fuse (or window ECU module) but the window fuses are good, - are there other fuses that are linked or could be related to this??
Suspects - module , fuses , window motor
But I really doubt ALL FOUR of my window motors went out simultaneously. Oh and my console switches are good. What in the hell??!
Pulled the module out again and did another meticulous solder job on suspect spots, reinstalled, still nothing nor any sound anywhere. Dealer tech said fuse (or window ECU module) but the window fuses are good, - are there other fuses that are linked or could be related to this??
Suspects - module , fuses , window motor
But I really doubt ALL FOUR of my window motors went out simultaneously. Oh and my console switches are good. What in the hell??!
Zak Pandino said:
Yes, the tech is probably right in suspecting the fuse or window ECU since all of the windows went at the same time. You should check the owner's manual for the fuse layout of your specific vehicle and confirm with the sticker in the fuse box. I have a '96 and I believe all the inside related fuses are located inside. There are fuses in the engine compartment, but they are for ABS and such. Also, in my truck the fuse locations in the owner's manual do NOT exactly match what is on the fuse box sticker, and the sticker has the right information, so keep that in mind !
Despite your meticulous soldering, there is still a possibility that the ECU is fried, or that it is not getting power. You should be able to do a simple DC voltage check using a voltmeter or multimeter, assuming you understand you have a pin out diagram. So check that if the relevant fuses are not blown. Also, it would be a good idea to check the connectors to the ECU and anywhere else you had to disconnect to see if they are all properly seated. Make sure that none of the pins inside the connectors are corroded or bent out of alignment.
Kev
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OK, so let's think about what is going on.
First you had the front windows working but no rear windows at all. Then the front left window stopped working. You re-soldered the ECU board, and your rear windows and the front left window started to work again.
You started the truck and put in in your garage and tried the windows again... and then none of the windows worked, you were not even getting a clicking sound from the ECU.
So you re-soldered the ECU board again (meticulously), but still nothing.
The LR tech advises you that it's either an ECU or a fuse.
Following my reply, you checked the fuses and found a blown fuse ("see manual"). Can you let us know what fuse this was ? You replaced this mystery fuse and the rear windows worked again, but not the front.
You then replaced a 30A window fuse and the front right window started working again, but the left still does not work.
I'm a little confused about the last bit. You say that you "popped and replaced one of the the 30A window fuses and replaced it". What do you mean by "popped" ? Do you mean popped as in "blown", or "popped out" as in removed ? You also say "one of the 30A window fuses", I assume this was the front window fuse, right ? (Satellite 2, Fuse #1, 30A)
Please clarify the situation for us because there might be some useful clues hiding in there !
Meanwhile, the fact that you are blowing fuses (whether it's just the first mystery fuse, or the second 30A fuse) means that there is a short somewhere. The mystery fuse that you found blown affected the rear windows, but the fuse may also protect another circuit, so something else in the truck might have caused the problem... Same thing for the 30A window fuse. Assuming that this is the fuse for the front windows, and assuming that you were trying to say that this fuse was blown, then it would seem that there's an electrical problem in the front and rear window circuits
I'll hold off on any further speculation until you can clarify the questions I posed. Also, it might be relevant to know a little more on the history of the rear windows. It sounds like they have not been working for a while. Did you buy the truck this way ? If so, what was the reason given for the unserviceable windows when you bought it ? It's possible that the rear windows are at the root of the power window poltergeist you are facing now, and the previous owner simply left them that way because at least the front windows worked... (?)
Kev
First you had the front windows working but no rear windows at all. Then the front left window stopped working. You re-soldered the ECU board, and your rear windows and the front left window started to work again.
You started the truck and put in in your garage and tried the windows again... and then none of the windows worked, you were not even getting a clicking sound from the ECU.
So you re-soldered the ECU board again (meticulously), but still nothing.
The LR tech advises you that it's either an ECU or a fuse.
Following my reply, you checked the fuses and found a blown fuse ("see manual"). Can you let us know what fuse this was ? You replaced this mystery fuse and the rear windows worked again, but not the front.
You then replaced a 30A window fuse and the front right window started working again, but the left still does not work.
I'm a little confused about the last bit. You say that you "popped and replaced one of the the 30A window fuses and replaced it". What do you mean by "popped" ? Do you mean popped as in "blown", or "popped out" as in removed ? You also say "one of the 30A window fuses", I assume this was the front window fuse, right ? (Satellite 2, Fuse #1, 30A)
Please clarify the situation for us because there might be some useful clues hiding in there !
Meanwhile, the fact that you are blowing fuses (whether it's just the first mystery fuse, or the second 30A fuse) means that there is a short somewhere. The mystery fuse that you found blown affected the rear windows, but the fuse may also protect another circuit, so something else in the truck might have caused the problem... Same thing for the 30A window fuse. Assuming that this is the fuse for the front windows, and assuming that you were trying to say that this fuse was blown, then it would seem that there's an electrical problem in the front and rear window circuits
I'll hold off on any further speculation until you can clarify the questions I posed. Also, it might be relevant to know a little more on the history of the rear windows. It sounds like they have not been working for a while. Did you buy the truck this way ? If so, what was the reason given for the unserviceable windows when you bought it ? It's possible that the rear windows are at the root of the power window poltergeist you are facing now, and the previous owner simply left them that way because at least the front windows worked... (?)
Kev
Sorry let me clarify,
You interpreted my mess of troubles quite well, after that soder job I had ALL windows working (prior to only the FR passenger). Then none after moving it. It may have been possible between the two soder jobs that I didnt have the plugs all the way in, but that doesnt explain why after both the fuses and soder jobs NOW I have 3 instead 4 windows discluding the driver, unless there is a single bad soder somewhere or something wrong on the ECU that is not visible. I'm wondering if the front windows are not linked somehow on the ECU like the rears are. . this would explain why only one of the fronts is working unless its something outside the ECU all together.
Yes SATELLITE 2 fuse #2 and # 15 were blown. But I believe that the 30 amp blown fuse was my fault, while unplugging the ecu plugs (w/ metal pliers) I believe I must've shorted it out. However the blown # 15 fuse I dont know about, I replaced it and that brought the rear windows back. So I now have 3/4 windows working, only nonfunctional window being the driver window, it DOES however make the clicking sound in the ECU, so at least I now have pwr flowing through. So I'm getting power to the ECU but not to the door itself, what else is there between there Im wondering. .? I really dont think theres a short because if that was the case -every time I would attempt this there would be a blown fuse, but this has only happened once,(aside from my tinkering and blowing the 30 amp w/ the metal pliers). Yes I did buy the truck this way from a friend, he always used the a/c or just the front windows, but after my driver went out I HAD to do something 1 window is not gonna cut it. . Someone mentioned the window regulator. .?, doubtful but worth throwin it out there at this point.
Thanks,
Zak
(931) 267-3768
You interpreted my mess of troubles quite well, after that soder job I had ALL windows working (prior to only the FR passenger). Then none after moving it. It may have been possible between the two soder jobs that I didnt have the plugs all the way in, but that doesnt explain why after both the fuses and soder jobs NOW I have 3 instead 4 windows discluding the driver, unless there is a single bad soder somewhere or something wrong on the ECU that is not visible. I'm wondering if the front windows are not linked somehow on the ECU like the rears are. . this would explain why only one of the fronts is working unless its something outside the ECU all together.
Yes SATELLITE 2 fuse #2 and # 15 were blown. But I believe that the 30 amp blown fuse was my fault, while unplugging the ecu plugs (w/ metal pliers) I believe I must've shorted it out. However the blown # 15 fuse I dont know about, I replaced it and that brought the rear windows back. So I now have 3/4 windows working, only nonfunctional window being the driver window, it DOES however make the clicking sound in the ECU, so at least I now have pwr flowing through. So I'm getting power to the ECU but not to the door itself, what else is there between there Im wondering. .? I really dont think theres a short because if that was the case -every time I would attempt this there would be a blown fuse, but this has only happened once,(aside from my tinkering and blowing the 30 amp w/ the metal pliers). Yes I did buy the truck this way from a friend, he always used the a/c or just the front windows, but after my driver went out I HAD to do something 1 window is not gonna cut it. . Someone mentioned the window regulator. .?, doubtful but worth throwin it out there at this point.
Thanks,
Zak
(931) 267-3768
Zak Pandino said:
If it's a window regulator, that means the power window motor itself
There is a quick & dirty way to check that without having to remove the door panels, simply by tapping power from the front console switches. You want to swap the wires from the front right (which you know is working) and feed the front left window regulator with it. When the wires are swapped, pressing the right window button should make the left (driver's) window work IF your motor is good. If that's the case, you can leave the swap as-is until you figure out what you want to do, so at least you'll have your driver's window working.As for the fuse issue... Well, there is a chance that you fried something when you blew the fuse with your pliers, but if you say the ECU is still clicking, then maybe you are OK. This 30A fuse is for the rear windows, so if they are still working then maybe you are good. The issue with the 10A "air conditioning/window" fuse is a little mysterious. From what I understand, the #15 10A fuse affects ALL windows, so there's no good reason why only the rears would come back to life when you replaced this fuse, unless it was before you re-soldered the ECU. As for the front windows and the ECU, if they are linked together on the ECU, then they should (?) both NOT work if it's an ECU problem. I've never had electrical problems with my windows so I haven't pulled the ECU to have a close look at it, therefore I don't really have the in-depth knowledge and experience to be of much more help, and I'd have to spend some time looking at the wiring schematics to get a basic idea of what is going on. (As of this evening, I am now pretty much of an expert on the door lock actuators... but that's not much help to you though...)
As for your question relating to what might be hiding between the ECU and the regulators in the doors... there are some pretty detailed wiring schematics on the RAVE CD. Try looking that up and you should be able to identify if there's a mystery component in there that could be the cause of the problem.
I would do the switch swapping test for a quick answer about the regulator first. Double check that all your window fuses are good first and try that. If no joy, then pop out the ECU and have a good look at all the solder spots and circuit traces to see if they are intact and that your soldering didn't melt any other spots which could be the problem. I've found that since the circuit boards used by LR are relatively low production runs, they are simple enough to troubleshoot visually by following the traces on the board from the connector point through the circuit board. With a magnifying glass you should be able to tell if there are any obvious bad solder spots or other visible damage such as scratches, cracks and corrosion. Keep an eye open for any resistors that might have been overloaded too. These will either be discolored (burned) or actually cracked or split. Even a simple component like a resistor can be replaced cheaply and easily if you know how to solder
Keep us posted
Kev
PS: Since that #15 10A "air conditioning/windows" fuse was blown for no apparent reason, have you tried running the AC to check of it might be what is blowing the fuse ? Also, the fuse list is not clear on this, but it's possible that the sunroofs are also linked to this #15 fuse, so maybe give them a check too to see if that might be what caused your fuse to blow.
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Thanks alot Kev,
Are you saying to swap the switches in the center console with each other? Because that was the first thing I tried to no avail, but I dont see how this would tell me if the window motor/regulator was bad, b/c no matter witch switch you plug into any of the wires they are still run to the door that they are supposed open/close, changing the switch doesnt change the door/window, all the switches are the same they simply just supply pwr. Maybe Im just reading what you said wrong but thats what it sounded like.
-maybe dumb question - Where Might I fond a RAVE CD?
I have checked over that dam ECU several times and fixed any questionable soders. But I cant see inside those small boxes on the ECU, I'm wondering if any of those are involved in the driver window (or if the clicking sound is coming from inside one of them). I think its almost MORE risky to keep taking that thing out as to how fragile it is and how hard those plugs are to remove!!
I NEED TO KNOW if the front windows are LINKED! This way I know if I need to get another ECU orrrrrrrr a window motor, I think Im going to remove the door panel and take a voltimeter to the wire in there and see if its getting power.
It's an SD so it doesnt have the sunroofs.
Ill keep you posted thanks so much
Zak
Are you saying to swap the switches in the center console with each other? Because that was the first thing I tried to no avail, but I dont see how this would tell me if the window motor/regulator was bad, b/c no matter witch switch you plug into any of the wires they are still run to the door that they are supposed open/close, changing the switch doesnt change the door/window, all the switches are the same they simply just supply pwr. Maybe Im just reading what you said wrong but thats what it sounded like.
-maybe dumb question - Where Might I fond a RAVE CD?
I have checked over that dam ECU several times and fixed any questionable soders. But I cant see inside those small boxes on the ECU, I'm wondering if any of those are involved in the driver window (or if the clicking sound is coming from inside one of them). I think its almost MORE risky to keep taking that thing out as to how fragile it is and how hard those plugs are to remove!!
I NEED TO KNOW if the front windows are LINKED! This way I know if I need to get another ECU orrrrrrrr a window motor, I think Im going to remove the door panel and take a voltimeter to the wire in there and see if its getting power.
It's an SD so it doesnt have the sunroofs.
Ill keep you posted thanks so much
Zak
Zak Pandino said:
Zak,
What I meant about the front console switches was to re-route the power from the switch on the the window that you know is working and feed it to the window that is not working. You could also run 12V DC from the battery and feed power to the suspect window that way if you know what you are doing... The idea is to check if the motor in the window is turning or not without having to take the door panel and all the other stuff off, which is pretty messy.
The "boxes" you are talking about on the ECU board are probably relays. A relay is an electric component that is like a switch, but the switch has a low and high power side to it. A very small amount of voltage (probably about 3V with low amperage) powers and inductor (magnetic switch) that makes the relay open and close. The high power side of the relay then allows higher voltage and amperage current to flow to the circuit that you want to operate, in this case a window motor that draws 12V and probably 20 amps. If you tried to run 12V at 20 amps through the ECU circuit board, it would melt the board, so they use a relay to switch the high power on and off using a low power signal. When the relay is activated, it makes a clicking sound. That is the sound of the magnetic switch closing to let the high current through the circuit. So if you hear the click, it is usually a good sign. One thing about relays is that over time, all the opening and closing of the high power switch can create carbon residue on the contacts of the switch from the contact sparks, and the carbon can build up and eventually stop the contacts from conducting power. So even if the relay is making a clicking sound, it might not actually be allowing power to get through as it should...
I have sent you a PM with the link to the RAVE CD. I think the board does not want the link advertised openly. Download the file and burn it to a CD. The RAVE CD is a shop manual and it uses Adobe Acrobat (included on the CD) to read the files on the CD.
So first put some 12V power to the wires going to your window and see if the motor works before taking anything apart ! You are right in not wanting to remove the ECU too often. You should also have a good look at the connector(s) that plugs into the ECU to make sure that they are all clean, seating properly and making good contact.
I'll be around tomorrow so let us know what you find
Kev
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