Gun Control: A Realistic Look

jim-00-4.6

Well-known member
Sep 30, 2005
2,037
6
61
Genesee, CO USA
brian4d said:
Look at the looks on these faces, priceless.

Maybe a bit fearful with the ever so popular nervous laugh/smirk?

http://washingtonexaminer.com/gallery/articleid/2518986/1/pictures/2591654#.UPmdVSfAfuw
magazine in place.
thumb on trigger.
fvck!!!!
What an ass. Just like finestein.
finger on the trigger & waving a gun around.

what are those 4 rules again?
oh, that's right.
they only apply to rednecks, hillbillies & tea party terrorists.

Someone REALLY needs to say, "Hey, Asshole!! unload that fucking gun before you start waving it around!"
 

jim-00-4.6

Well-known member
Sep 30, 2005
2,037
6
61
Genesee, CO USA
ukoffroad said:
FWIW declaring schools a gun free zone means the sentencing guidelines are higher if you have one there, same with drug free zones. It was originally designed to push gangs and drug traffic away from school areas.
Do you have any children that attend school in a Drug Free Zone?
Have you asked them how well that sign works?
It's a fucking joke, and EVERYONE knows it.

And by the way, it isn't worth a cup of warm spit.
 

apg

Well-known member
Dec 28, 2004
3,019
0
East Virginia
Eric N. said:
It's a no brainer to extend that to all the schools.

OK, fine.... Now take a school like Virginia Tech. How many buildings on campus? A hundred? And each of these has anywhere from three to over a dozen exterior doors. And that doesn't include all the parking lots, ball fields and common areas...it would take a regiment to protect the campus adequately. Now you do the math: multiply this payroll by all the elementary, middle and high schools in the country along with all the colleges and universities.... One study estimated that the cost of even just one guard at only primary schools would cost 8 billion a year....

When was the last time that anyone on the far right voted to spend more on education? Wasn't the Dept. of Education one of the departments that some candidates targeted for elimination?
 

brian4d

Well-known member
Dec 3, 2007
6,499
67
High Point, NC
apg said:
OK, fine.... Now take a school like Virginia Tech. How many buildings on campus? A hundred? And each of these has anywhere from three to over a dozen exterior doors. And that doesn't include all the parking lots, ball fields and common areas...it would take a regiment to protect the campus adequately. Now you do the math: multiply this payroll by all the elementary, middle and high schools in the country along with all the colleges and universities.... One study estimated that the cost of even just one guard at only primary schools would cost 8 billion a year....

When was the last time that anyone on the far right voted to spend more on education? Wasn't the Dept. of Education one of the departments that some candidates targeted for elimination?

When was the last time you were on a college campus? Even my small private college had an overly adequate security force. Let them pack heat, simple as that.

Add: Not sure about VA Tech but many of the large NC colleges have the own (separate of the city) police force.... And my High School had an on duty armed deputy during school hours. Ask me how many shootings our high school had even to this day.
 
Last edited:

apg

Well-known member
Dec 28, 2004
3,019
0
East Virginia
kennith said:
Damn it!

We made it so far without him this time...

Yeah, how dare logic and reason should be added to the discussion....

First of all, I own more firearms than all but a few of you and have been reloading since '78 or so. And I live adjacent to a small (25,000+- student) university. The president's house is a few doors away. And no, I wouldn't call the campus police force 'adequate' for the urban setting, as the majority that I have seen were Barney Fife-like characters who couldn't get a job as LEOs elsewhere. And there was an armed guard at Columbine for all the good that he did, eating lunch in his car far from where things went down....

I've seen little effort from the far right in the way of solutions, rather, suggestions that border on the ridiculous. And a ban on so-called "assault rifles" as some at the other end of the political spectrum have suggested isn't gonna help either. The time for action and/or intervention happens long before some miscreant decides to shoot his way into a school or other 'gun free' zone. In almost every recent massacre, Columbine, Tuscon, Aurora and even Newtown, there was plenty of documented malice of fore-thought by the perpetrators.
 

ukoffroad

Well-known member
Jan 13, 2010
2,125
169
Lynchburg, Va
jim-00-4.6 said:
Do you have any children that attend school in a Drug Free Zone?
Have you asked them how well that sign works?
It's a fucking joke, and EVERYONE knows it.

And by the way, it isn't worth a cup of warm spit.

Yes, and I teach. I am not suggesting it keeps killers out, that was never the point of the law. If I remember correctly the idea started in some of the bigger cities to push drug trafficking away from schools. I do not think you are aware of the intent of the law, that is what I am saying.

As a teacher, I have already requested an RPG and ninja throwing stars.

I do not have a good solution to the problem, and I know what is at risk for me and my students each day. What state was it that allowed teachers to carry guns but they had non-lethal rounds?
 

Ballah06

Well-known member
Jan 21, 2007
5,638
16
Savannah, GA
Reading through some of the later postings, excluding pinkytoe's gibberish, i think we are all more or less in agreement that law-abiding citizens should have the right to own and carry firearms to protect themselves, their families, and potentially other members of society, should a need arise. Now, to make it clear, we are talking about the use of deadly force as a last resort in order to protect innocent lives from grave and imminent danger; a situation so 'bad' that there are no other counter-means against. In light of recent fully automatic weapons, assault rifle, etc. debates, it also makes sense to at the very least make those weapons legal and 'widely available' for purchase, and ownership to the law-abiding citizens that can mitigate reasonable and expected threats encountered in the current environment, i.e. semi-automatic handguns, semi-automatic rifles, shotguns, etc. Hence, the fully automatic weapons may require more stringent regulation in this case (as they already do), which is fine in my book. Bottom line is that an area that has armed and trained (even in the basic way) law-abiding individuals can be reasonably expected to have less bullshit happen in it; at least once the word gets out that folks are 'packing'. When it comes to protecting various resources, be it schools, colleges, and even gov't assets, no security perimeter is impenetrable. Increased protection efforts, i.e. better trained and equipped guard force, intrusion detection systems, access controls etc. mean increase in costs associated with securing certain assets. And even by having a decent guard force in place, it is highly unlikely that a diligently prepared attack, executed by a formidable foe, can be repelled without loss of life. Hence, when it comes to schools for example, unless we erect hesco barriers around each educational institution, implement FPCON Delta-type posture, have skilled marksmen and guard force in place, to include foot/vehicle patrols, etc. bad things will happen occasionally to good people and there is not much one can do. So, with that said, we, as a nation should not freak out and aim our indistinguishable anger and confusion toward firearms as a whole, but rather understand that certain aspects of life cannot be completely controlled and that even despite drug free zones, firearms ownership limitations or bans, those with a criminal intent, will continue to attempt to get their way. It seems like the gun control proponents want to be a 100% proactive on the issue that does not, and never will have a 100% solution.
 
Last edited:

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
apg said:
Yeah, how dare logic and reason should be added to the discussion....

You wouldn't know logic if it walked up and pulled your teeth out your ass which, incidentally, is where many of your posts originate. You vomit logical fallacies nearly as often as you mix together unrelated, out of context information and statistics; baking it all into giant cake of nonsense that you continuously attempt to shove down all of our throats.

Cheers,

Kennith
 

az_max

1
Apr 22, 2005
7,463
2
ukoffroad said:
FWIW declaring schools a gun free zone means the sentencing guidelines are higher if you have one there, same with drug free zones. It was originally designed to push gangs and drug traffic away from school areas.

Instead of calling it a 'gun free zone', why not just make a law and post a sign "fines/sentences doubled in school zone"?
 

Eric N.

Well-known member
Apr 20, 2004
3,980
0
Falls Church, VA
apg said:
OK, fine.... Now take a school like Virginia Tech. How many buildings on campus? A hundred? And each of these has anywhere from three to over a dozen exterior doors. And that doesn't include all the parking lots, ball fields and common areas...it would take a regiment to protect the campus adequately. Now you do the math: multiply this payroll by all the elementary, middle and high schools in the country along with all the colleges and universities.... One study estimated that the cost of even just one guard at only primary schools would cost 8 billion a year....

When was the last time that anyone on the far right voted to spend more on education? Wasn't the Dept. of Education one of the departments that some candidates targeted for elimination?


This country pisses away more than enough money every year in aid to other counties. We could easily use that money to pay for a cop at schools. I'm sure there are plenty of handouts that could be cut and reallocated to the safety of our children if that was actually important to them. Which it clearly isn't. Not like all these new "laws" aren't going to cost money. College campuses are more like a town and you are right, they would be next to impossible to secure without completely redesigning the whole campus. Allow the legal age kids/teachers to CCW on campus would help though much like people carrying in any other town.
 

ukoffroad

Well-known member
Jan 13, 2010
2,125
169
Lynchburg, Va
az_max said:
Instead of calling it a 'gun free zone', why not just make a law and post a sign "fines/sentences doubled in school zone"?

takes a bigger sign:D

While all of this is tragic beyond comprehension, I still wonder if we are not just chasing the statistical outlier here? Will we spend billions in security and building mods to prevent an event that while unbearingly tragic, represents such a small percentage of deaths? Build the new schools with better safeguards, put the money into mental health and treat the problem, not the symptom.

And give me an RPG, or at least the throwing stars.:patriot:
 

bri

Well-known member
Apr 20, 2004
6,184
155
US
az_max said:
Instead of calling it a 'gun free zone', why not just make a law and post a sign "fines/sentences doubled in school zone"?

How about just "Gun Zone: anyone attempting to harm another in this zone shall be shot and killed".
 
Last edited:

Mike_Rupp

Well-known member
Mar 26, 2004
3,604
0
Mercer Island, WA
apg said:
Yeah, how dare logic and reason should be added to the discussion....

First of all, I own more firearms than all but a few of you and have been reloading since '78 or so. And I live adjacent to a small (25,000+- student) university. The president's house is a few doors away. And no, I wouldn't call the campus police force 'adequate' for the urban setting, as the majority that I have seen were Barney Fife-like characters who couldn't get a job as LEOs elsewhere. And there was an armed guard at Columbine for all the good that he did, eating lunch in his car far from where things went down....

I've seen little effort from the far right in the way of solutions, rather, suggestions that border on the ridiculous. And a ban on so-called "assault rifles" as some at the other end of the political spectrum have suggested isn't gonna help either. The time for action and/or intervention happens long before some miscreant decides to shoot his way into a school or other 'gun free' zone. In almost every recent massacre, Columbine, Tuscon, Aurora and even Newtown, there was plenty of documented malice of fore-thought by the perpetrators.

Logic and reason? Really?

Logically, please tell me how you know that you have more firearms than most on this board? I know for a fact that you have no idea of how many I own. I could own a hundred firearms or just a few. The same applies to the others here. If you make such logical blunders how can I take anything you write seriously?
 

Ballah06

Well-known member
Jan 21, 2007
5,638
16
Savannah, GA
Here is an example of stupid gun-related behavior that is sure to cast more negative light on the gun control debate:

http://news.yahoo.com/three-hurt-firearm-accident-north-carolina-gun-show-234451916.html

Obvious question of course is why did this person bring a loaded shotgun to the gun show?

Aaaaand more retarded behavior:

http://hamptonroads.com/node/665732

It is well-known in the last case to remove the magazine first, then rack the slide to the rear, and visually and physically inspect the chamber to ensure it is in fact a condition 4 weapon. Bad publicity for the gun cause, since the ban-all-guns proponents will twist this around, rather than acknowledge that these isolated accidents happened as a result of lack of training. Kind of like unskilled drivers wrecking their cars hurting themselves and/or others.
 
Last edited:

brian4d

Well-known member
Dec 3, 2007
6,499
67
High Point, NC
Ballah06 said:
Here is an example of stupid gun-related behavior that is sure to cast more negative light on the gun control debate:

http://news.yahoo.com/three-hurt-firearm-accident-north-carolina-gun-show-234451916.html

Obvious question of course is why did this person bring a loaded shotgun to the gun show?

Aaaaand more retarded behavior:

http://hamptonroads.com/node/665732

It is well-known in the last case to remove the magazine first, then rack the slide to the rear, and visually and physically inspect the chamber to ensure it is in fact a condition 4 weapon. Bad publicity for the gun cause, since the ban-all-guns proponents will twist this around, rather than acknowledge that these isolated accidents happened as a result of lack of training. Kind of like unskilled drivers wrecking their cars hurting themselves and/or others.

This is media spin. There is a bright light on everything gun related now. You have a much greater risk dying at a convenience store robbery than a huge warehouse filled with guns, knives and ammo. Go figure.
 

Ballah06

Well-known member
Jan 21, 2007
5,638
16
Savannah, GA
brian4d said:
This is media spin. There is a bright light on everything gun related now. You have a much greater risk dying at a convenience store robbery than a huge warehouse filled with guns, knives and ammo. Go figure.

Agreed on the media spin. In the light of the recent shootings every follow-on, gun-related incident is magnified. I guess another thing people have to realize is that the current technology makes information sharing and dissemination drastically different than 10-20 years ago. We can now learn what is happening in a different part of the country, or globe for that matter not too long after an event or incident had happened. Therefore, there is a greater personal involvement in some events that may have not have been known to us before. Some may confuse increased reporting and access to information, as well as increased media emphasis on minor events following a related bigger, more significant event with a sharp increase in certain activity that requires immediate government interdiction. In turn, the media capitalizes on the hype surrounding any event worthy of getting blown out of propotion; every expert, witness, bystander, relative or person with an opinion is interviewed and the results are then packaged in hype report that is and plastered online, only until something else worthy of media molestation happens. Then the process repeats itself. I suppose that is what investigative journalism/reporting has become.
 
Last edited:

pinkytoe69

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2012
1,703
184
minnesota

Eric N.

Well-known member
Apr 20, 2004
3,980
0
Falls Church, VA
pinkytoe69 said:


See this type of thing bothers me too. If the state and feds had their act together he would have never gotten approved but, they failed. So instead of making a big push to get their info corrected and their reporting procedures fixed they just wanted to make new laws that further restrict people that aren't the problem while doing nothing to actually fix the real issue. Just like Biden a few days ago saying that they don't have the resources to go after people that lie on their background check paperwork. So you don't have the resources to enforce current laws and procedures but, you're going to find the resources to make and enforce new laws that aren't really needed if you enforced the current ones. It's a joke, a very sad joke.
 

pinkytoe69

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2012
1,703
184
minnesota
It isnt just about creating efficiency in current procedures. For instance...

"For buyers of assault weapons and pistols, law enforcement currently has only seven days to verify the person's identity and criminal history -- otherwise, a permit is automatically granted. We should at least allow police enough time to verify the person's identity.''

Granted, this is just in Minny, but why?